I think someone said that a head cut for a ppc cartridge would work too. I may be wrong.
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I think someone said that a head cut for a ppc cartridge would work too. I may be wrong.
Yes, that is correct. Fred(SSS) has them on his site.
Well, not to pick back, but a 30/30 has more energy than the 6.5 Grendel. Nobody considers it more than a 200 yd gun. I am a fan of the Grendel, but seriously, people need to accept the cartridge's limitations. Look, its a 7.62x39 Russian. Its the same cartridge shot in the SKS and/or AK-47. The only difference is that it is 6.5mm instead of 7.62mm. Seriously; Would you consider the 7.62x39 to be an excellent deer cartridge out to 300 yds? How many people talk about how great the 30/30 Winchester is at 300 yds? The 6.5 Grendel is a neat and well intended cartridge. It will kill critters at extended ranges, but so will a .22 mag. All I am sayin is that it is credited with more than it has to offer and hyped up much more than it is, IMHO. Paper punching at 1000yd is totally acceptable, but depending on it to cleanly and efficiently taking deer every single time at 300+ yds........NO. There are much better suited cartridges for this purpose and as hunters we owe it to the game we take to not make them suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by davemuzz
As bad as Dave needs to change his shirt I got to agree with him on this. My bolt grendel is pushing a 123 amax at 2610fps. Now if i back it down to 2510 and you run the numbers against the 30-30 with the standard 170 grain soft point you get 2200fps with 1827 flbs and you drop to 1023 ft lbs at 200 yards while the grendel does start a little lower in energy it maintains it a lot better. Grendel using a 123 amax starting at 2510 fps has 1720 ft lbs of energy but it goes out to 380 yards before dropping to 1013 ft lbs of energy. just another prime example of bigger is not always better. Your 7.62x39 using a 123 softpoint runs out of energy at 150 yards with a whopping 1001 ft lbs of energy. There really is no comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Bigbore
The 30-30 is an excellent deer cartridge, and yes, not many seriously look at them as 300 yard cartridges. The problem is the Model 94 Winchester started out with iron sights and was never known for superb accuracy. The Grendel starts out within 5% of the energy of the 170 grain 30-30 Core-Lock at the muzzle and quickly overtakes it with increasing range.Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Bigbore
How about the .257 Roberts? The Grendel trajectory with the 129 grain bullet is about 1-1/2" flatter 300 yards when the Roberts is using the 117 gr Core-Lokt.
The drop at 300 yds is within about 3 inches of the drop for the 100 gr Core-Lokt .243 Winchester round. Sighted in at 200 yards, put your crosshair at the deer's spine, and both will drop into the vital zone.
For more, see:
http://shootersnotes.com/grendelmani...or-large-game/
That discussion addressed rifles with 24" barrels to allow a consistent comparison. Yes, the velocity will be lower and the drop greater if one hacks 10" off the barrel but that is true of all firearms.
Oh heck man.....if you want to shoot 'em at longer than 200 yards, then just do what I did....and get a Shilen barrel in 6.5 Swede and bolt in onto either a short action (yes...this will work even with berger VLD's) or a long action....load some 140gr. bullets....shut up....and go shoot anything at 500 yards with all the confidence in the world. ;D
Before we get our respective panties in a knot, remember that when discussing 30-30, 7.62x39 and 6.5Grendel, we are discussing three different types of bullets.
It's like discussing Apples, Oranges, and Nectarines.
Both 30-30 and 7.62x39 are 30 caliber bullets (the x39 either .308 or .311 depending on your rifle and loads), but the 30-30 is a round nose bullet and the x39 is pointed, possibly boat tailed. Thus we have for each bullet a different ballistic coefficient (BC), which translates to a difference in how fast the friction of the air slows down the bullet.
The 6.5 bullet, if it is the same weight/mass as a 30 caliber bullet, is a smaller diameter, thus thinner and longer.
This translates into a higher BC, i.e., less slowing due to air friction. Thus the 6.5 bullet retains its speed for a longer time and distance.
Kinetic energy = 1/2MV2 (1/2 times the Mass of the bullet times the Square of the Velocity of the bullet)
Therefore the retained Kinetic energy of the 6.5 bullet is proportional to the SQUARE of the velocity, so since it retains more velocity downrange, it retains much more energy downrange (For example, if it is moving twice as fast, it has 4 times the energy).
I will not argue about your specific numbers, nor will I argue about your particular experiences (especially since you guys are all better shooters than I am!), but I also will not argue with physics. ...after all, it's the law. ::)
The 30-30 isn't always round nosed! I have 5 30-30's that I load for and none of them use round nosed bullets. A 168 grain tipped boat tail turns them into a solid 300 yard deer gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomae
The thing to remember with all the cartridges that are made to try to shoehorn more "oomph" into the AR is that they may be a great cartridge within the limits of the AR platform. Why accept those limitations when you are working with a more versitle system like a Savage? 6.8 SPC (special purpose cartridge - the "special purpose" was to work in an AR!), 6.5 Grendel, etc. are all severly limited by trying to fit and function in an AR.
The simply answer is "Because we can" otherwise everyone would only have a 22lr, a shotgun, a 30-06, and a 375 H&H. Almost forgot the Red Ryder bb gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
Of course that is always a valid answer!
But a 6.5mm BR would be even more of a good thing!
Oh My Gosh!!!.......I forgot all about the RR-BB Gun. That's a classic that should be put on the A\R platform!! I don't know why this hasn't been thought of before. Earl is a Genius!!! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by earl39
Very good point, Eric. Thanks for mentioning it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
For the sake of argument, I was trying to make my point by comparing three different types of bullets.
I was not trying to imply that ALL 30-30s had to use round nosed bullets, especially today, considering the newer 30-30 loadings available. Because you are using a bullet with a higher BC (due to the more "streamlined" shape of the projectile) it has more energy at longer ranges (than the round nose bullet) because it is still at a higher velocity than the round nosed bullet with the same weight and diameter at any given distance.
I think it is very nice that I live somewhere where I can have the rifle and caliber of my choice (which may or may not appear logical or stupid to others) just because I want to. ;)
Grendel feeds from a magazine much better than a br does otherwise i might be more inclined to agree.
Maybe somebody should tell her that the 6.5 Grendel isn't a good Whitetail caliber! ::)
(exit side, entrance is just below ear )
[img width=432 height=768]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc505/majesticcnc/111111NCDoe264LBCAR123grA-Max.jpg[/img]
Well heck....here in Pa. we can't even use semi-auto's for big game. So it really doesn't matter....at least for hunting in Pa.....what caliber you get for an A\R. However, if you are hunting in a State that allows 'em, then it probably does matter.
Last year for the first time I hunted pronghorn in WY. I took one with my 6.5 Swede. Bang....Plop. Now, in all fairness, I probably would not have taken an A\R no matter what the caliber because I've hunted for over 40 years with bolt action or lever guns. Just what I've cut my teeth on and what I'm comfy with.
But for coyotes or other "vermin" I'd gladly use the A\R platform. The 6.5 Grendel would probably be a good choice for that and with quality glass, it would be a good 'ol time on the prairie. ;D
Good BC of the 6.5 bullets and "cheap" reloading of the smaller Grendel case.
MHO
Dave