22-250 with 1:9 twist

Due to multiple injuries and seven surgeries over a 4 year period I'm still dealing with some significant nerve damage / issues and am told I'll need at least two more surgeries in the near future. Also, because I am no longer Active Army I no longer feel the need to be 'tacti-cool' and have pulled the bolt actions out from the back of the safe. Unfortunately, even the recoil from some light 308 rounds cause the nerves to fire off like what I expect it feels like to be strapped to an electric chair. Because of this, I have decided to give the 22-250 a try. I've got Savage building me a custom rifle in 22-250, basically the 308 caliber 10 FCP HS Precision but in 22-250, with a 1:9 twist 24 inch barrel.

I intend to use this rifle to shoot in a local 'hunter rifle' bench match shooting steel p-dog and rabbit targets from 100-300 yards, as well as actually getting out from time to time to shoot some actual p-dogs and coyotes. Also, I may have the opportunity to go with a couple of my neighbors on a group deer and pig hunt in the late fall, thus the 1:9 twist so that I can shoot heavier bullets such as the 60gr Nosler partition rounds.

From the research that I have done over the last few weeks I understand that it is actually bullet length that correlates to barrel twist vs actually bullet weight, all things being equal. Still, I've read from many sources that a 1:9 barrel should be able to shoot, approximately 50 or 55gr up to approx. 70 grain bullets, again bullet length. But internet 'opinions' are like everyone's butts, everyone has one and they all stink. :p So to avoid opening that can-o-worms I'll ask the question differently. For those out there that actually have a 22-250 with a 1:9 barrel, what actual 50gr to 60gr varmint bullets have you shot, especially reloaded, that you have had good accuracy results with as well as what powder did you use (don't include the charge weight - internet Nazis and liability, etc, etc :rolleyes:). Also, what 60gr or higher hunting (A-Max, Partition, ect) bullet have you had good accuracy as well as game stopping results and what powder were you using. I did go to Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday and bought a box each of Hornady 55gr SP and 60gr SP Varmint bullets, Nosler 60gr Partition, Barnes 62gr TSX BT, and Sierra 63 gr Semi Point to try out but could not find any heavier except for HPBT match bullets in the 75gr-80gr weights and am unsure about using these in a 1:9 twist barrel. Also picked up a 1lb bottle of H4895 to try.

I understand that what your 22-250 barrel likes may be different than what my barrel likes, I'm just hoping to not completely recreate the wheel.

Any real world experience from those with a 1:9 twist barrel would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve

I use noslers website and it shows different bullet weights and which load was the most accurate I've always had good luck. My 22-250 is a fan of varget.


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First of all, let me take this opportunity to thank you so much for being willing to risk life and limb in service to our country and for the protection of our life and liberty. Without you, and millions of your brothers and sisters who made the ultimate sacrifice, we'd be leading a very different way of life.

Now, to answer your question; If you go on this website http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/ and go to the ballistics tab, drop down to twist rate calculator you'll find a form that you populate with your information and it will calculate the stability factor of your particular bullet you're interested in. Stability factors (SG) under 1.5 are not considered fully stabilized, however this does not mean they won't shoot well. I find the 77 grain TMK shot at max load in my 223 is only rated at 1.42 yet it makes very small groups at 200 yds.

If you don't have a particular bullet in hand to measure the OAL, but would like to do the calculation nevertheless, go here to find bullet length: http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist....shtml#Hornady

My 12 twist 22-250 will shoot bullets up to about 60 grains. And although some here say it'll shoot the 69 SMK just fine, I have yet to try it. So far 55grs. is all I've loaded.

Your 9 twist will shoot much heavier bullets. How heavy is up to you to find out, but the Berger calculator will give you some pretty good starting points. Additionally, should the selected bullet be too little stabilized, the program will suggest better choices for you to try.

Welcome to the madness....

Thanks for your service, and sorry about the nerve issues. I know they are hard to contend with.

I have thought of your idea, mainly having a 223 barrel rechambered, same net result. One thing to keep in mind with the 9 twist. If you use some of the very thin jacketed varmint bullets, the 9 twist MIGHT spin them TOO fast. It would destroy them shortly after leaving the barrel. So keep that in mind when trying them. You might find the std jacketed (ie. non varmint) soft points work better for critters.

For deer, I have read a LOT of guys in Texas use the 22-250 for deer. I would consider one of the Barnes TTSX bullets. Even the partitions might blow up on a shoulder, with those velocities, whereas a TTSX or TSX might lose it's petals but would most assuredly give a complete pass through even on a shoulder hit.

As for the shoulder, remember the heavier the bullet, the more recoil. With the TSX's a 55-60 will be more than enough. Remember, a lead core bullet, will lose as much as 50% or more on it's way through a big game animal, so a 100gr bullet, from a 243 will end up weighing about 50gr. The 80gr Barnes TTSX will probably weigh 75gr on exit. That's mainly because it lost the plastic tip.

When you want long range, try the 75gr Amax. I have had those stabilize well enough for 1 1/4" 100yd groups from my Savage 223 bolt, and my Ruger Mini 14 Target. So I feel certain at 22-250 velocities, you will do even better.

Good luck, and keep us updated on it. Neat project.

Thanks guys, both for the sentiments and the information.

Those are some great sites Texas, I'll have to play around with the Berger Bullets calculator some to get the hang of it as I am learning the language and intricacies rifle reloading and the 'recipes' to obtain long range accuracy. Spent the last 22 years just shooting first the M16 and then M4s (.gov and my personally owned) with factory ammo and never had to concern myself with the 'magic' that goes into mating ammunition loads to the barrels / shooting systems. Having fun learning about it now though.

I'll definitely post about my learning curve when I get everything together and can finally start shooting. I keep finding one or two odds and ends on the reloading side that I steel need to purchase and the rifle order is still at Savage so it may be a few weeks before the rifle is even shipped.

Thanks again!

Steve

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Originally Posted by Grim

1) From the research that I have done over the last few weeks I understand that it is actually bullet length that correlates to barrel twist vs actually bullet weight
2) I've read from many sources that a 1:9 barrel should be able to shoot, approximately 50 or 55gr up to approx. 70 grain bullets
3) For those out there that actually have a 22-250 with a 1:9 barrel, what actual 50gr to 60gr varmint bullets have you shot, especially reloaded, that you have had good accuracy results with as well as what powder did you use (don't include the charge weight

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1) Correct, weight, other than a generality to length, has nothing to do with it. The length is what needs a stabilizing force to keep the Center-of-Gravity Vs. Center-of-pressure in ballance. This link will give you an easy idea whether or not something is "Stable". You can use a link on the left to find the bullet lengths.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

2) Maybe, but this depends. So some years back I actually called the major mfgrs and asked for 22-cal RPM limits. RPM is what destroys bullets, NOT speed of the bullet movement. Lightly constructed bullets such as the original TNT, SXSP, Dogtowns, etc all have an RPM limit of roughly 240,000 rpm. The V-max class and most SP bullets typically are around 290,000 SPM, and the BlitzKing and BT's are 320,000 RPM.
Remember that your individual barrel smoothness will greatly change the final number. So use them as a reference, not a gospel. Here is your math to calculate it.
MV * 720 / Twist = RPM. So for an example: 3200fps * 720 / 9 = 256,000RPM

3) Without playing the Nazi card, asking for a charge in grains is misguided, and unhelpful to what you want to accomplish. The reloading market is a waste/blended market. Even with the same name, no two bottles will be the same animal. All warnings tell you to "Drop charges by 10% when switching lots". One of the few companies that actually list nominal burning rate variations, shows the bulk of their rifle powders to vary by 8%-ish. I can tell you from using a Pressure Trace to actually test pressures in our rifles, I've tested a few products re-sold by Hodgy that were different from Hornady data by 12%. Since no one lists lots tested, or nominal variances; shouldn't assume all is the same. Watch velocities to know where you are in pressure range.

Any listed data is going to be more accurate, at some node, than most shooters are capable of realizing. So don't worry about A fixed thing, just shoot and enjoy. If you are really that crippled in terms of recoil, you should really consider a brake. The APA Fat Bahstard, is a VERY efficient brake.

With my 22-250 1-9 twist I have had good luck with 52 & 69 smk. Also use H 4895 it's a good combo!

I'm a fan of imr4350 for the 69 SMK and the 75 Amax if you have a chamber throated for it.

I have had great luck with 69gr Sierra Match Kings as well as the new 69 Tipped match king in my standard 12 twist .22-250. All the twist rate calculators says it isnt possible, but the small groups in paper say otherwise. I am using R17 and getting excellent velocities and accuracy out of three different barrels now. 3400fps and half moa or better tested out to 600 yards. I would say with a 9 twist 77-80 grain bullets should be no problem. If it were me I would really look at the Sierra Tipped match king for my everything bullet. They work excellent on coyotes and I bet would smack deer dead no problem.

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Originally Posted by stomp442

I have had great luck with 69gr Sierra Match Kings as well as the new 69 Tipped match king in my standard 12 twist .22-250. All the twist rate calculators says it isnt possible, but the small groups in paper say otherwise. I am using R17 and getting excellent velocities and accuracy out of three different barrels now. 3400fps and half moa or better tested out to 600 yards.

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Based upon what you're experiencing, I'm going to try it next in my model 12FV in 22-250. Not much to go on in my 4 reloading manuals, so I'm going with H4350 and the 69TMK. Will try it tomorrow and report back. Should be interesting!

Reduce H4350 loads by 10% and work up. Not much data out there but the burn rates are similar. Like I said I have had three different rifles, all shooting the 69s and all three preferred R17 at 37-38gr.

I ran the numbers through Bergers twist calculator, as expected they were pathetic......SG=.7. Clearly unstable by the book, but we'll see. I loaded up 3 each in 5 different loads working up to max per Lee manual. IF the first one goes through the target sideways, I'll pull down the rest and save components....LOL

Now, back to the OP's question. I found the Sierra Blitzing in 55 grains over 8208XBR doing 3600 fps has shot best so far in my 12 twist.

I shoot Sierra 65 gr GameKings in my 22-250 with good accuracy. I usually head shoot pigs with any caliber, and so far that is all I have done with the 22-250 so I can't speak to what a shoulder shot would look like. They have a good reputation for performance on medium size critters.

Keith

My local Range also sits at 3000 ft above sea level and if I am out and about in the hills in any direction I just get higher, so that could be a large component to my success with these bullets.

I actually did some testing and provided feedback on one of the original Savage LRPV 22-250 1-9 twist prototype rifles back in the spring/summer of 2006. Feedback included a list of various bullet weights/types that I tested with as that was one of Savage's big concerns with offering the faster twist - whether or not the it significantly limit what factory loads could be shot through it. I shot everything from 45gr JHP up to 64gr SP's with various factory loads with no issues. With handloads I experimented with the following bullets, none of which exhibited any issues with the faster twist barrel.

• Nosler 50gr BT
• Sierra 52gr HPBT Match
• Sierra 53gr HP Match
• Bart's 52gr Original Flatbase
• Nosler 55gr BT
• Hornady 55gr V-Max
• Hornady 60gr V-Max
• Sierra 65gr Game King
• Sierra 69gr HPBT Match King
• Hornady 75gr A-Max
• Hornady 80gr A-Max
• Nosler 80gr Custom Competition

While the 80gr bullets shot ok from this particular barrel, I was pushing them pretty hard at 3,100fps and even at that speed in a 1-9 twist the stability factor was just over 1 and far from ideal. Ideally the 69 & 70gr VLD-type bullets would be the best bet for the 22-250 1-9" combo in terms of stability. One has to remember that factory barrels are button rifled and the actual twist rate can vary by as much as 1/2" plus or minus.

As darkker pointed out, there are a few bullets out there with thinner jackets like the original Speer TNT that won't hold up to the faster twist rate & velocity, but the vast majority of bullets on the market today will. Most of the general data out there (even from the bullet manufacturers) regarding bullet weight/length v twist rate for .224 caliber is based on .223 velocities. When you crank up the speed by going to the 22-250 (or .22-243 or 22BR or 22 Dasher etc.) that general data is no longer accurate. This is why it's important to use a good calculator and to know your true velocity and twist rate.

If you want a hunting bullet that hits like a sledgehammer on medium sized game (smaller deer, hogs, etc) look at the 65gr Sierra Game King. This bullet was specifically designed at the request of the Australian Game Management Authority for shooting kangaroo's. They will darn near punch a quarter-size hole through 1/2" thick mild steel plate at 200 yards when shot at 22-250 velocities. I've never had much luck getting them to group much better than 1/2" at 100 yards, but that's plenty accurate for shooting medium game out to 400-500 yards.

Base upon the results I had today, I think you've got more than altitude working for you, you must be shooting a 9 twist or better barrel. My groups, if you could call them that, were about 24 inches at 200 yds. Bullet was definitely unstable. BTW: I chrono'd them at 3480 fps using 37 gr. of H4350.

Have you measured your barrel for twist, Stomp? I've measured mine and its definitely a 12 twist.

Next up will be 65 gr game kings for upcoming pig hunt.

Heck I was getting 1.5" groups from the 75gr Amax from my 9 twist 223. I bet the higher velocity from the 22-250 would give more than enough RPM to fully stabilize them.

That's better than I was getting with my box stock 9 twist 223. When the barrel was toast, I spun on an 8 twist Criterion. I shot 75 A-Max over 8208 this week while working on seating depth. The best 5 shot group was loaded .015 off the lands, measured .44 minute at 200 yds, and was comprised of two groups measuring in the one's spread apart by about a bullet width. Winds were 8-12 with gusts but the range was fairly well protected.

Yesterday I bought a 28 inch 8 twist X-Caliber SS barrel in 22-250 off this board, and looking forward to seeing how the 75 A-Max and 77 Tipped Match King shoots once I have it spun on. I'm sure it won't shoot 90 grain bullets, maybe 80's but then I'm not shooting long range competition. Just having fun.

I will revisit this thread once I have some load development results for the OP.

Yes all of my barrels are 12 twist. They are all factory Savage barrels and one of them is a factory Axis barrel.

MrFurious, that is some great information. Thanks!!

I'll be putting that information into my notebook for future reference.

if your only shooting to 300yds I'd try the 53gr v-max over imr 8208xbr. between the .290 bc and the 8208 shows respectable velocity gains over varget it would be a laser. suprisingly supersonic beyond 1000yds from a 26" tube but the wind owns it on the big end. screw a suppressor on the end and it should take out alot of the recoil as well as noise.