Looking for accuracy advice

Gentlemen,

I just got a Axis in 7mm-08 recently, got a hand load I am happy with from the bench at 100 yards. About 1.70 inch groups. This is a hunting rifle, so I am doing a lot of shooting from a sitting and standing position as you would while hunting. Shooting out at 100 yards at clay pigeons, a 4x scope and a sling.

Sitting position is fairly solid, but from standing not so good. I would say like one out of eight will hit the target. I sure would like to improve that a little.

Anyone have any advice for improving off-hand shooting?

Thanks!

Herb

Standing is not an easy position to master. I never did. Basics. Good position. Good trigger work./

A good shooting sling can help. Supporting the weight of the rifle on your bodies structure is the important part in holding still. You are going to wobble or have the lazy 8 thing going on. You just need to relax and try to keep the wobble as small as possible.

Sadly there is no umbrella answer, the muscles required to hold a rifle in a standing position are not often exercised in common day to day activities so the more you hold your rifle in position the stronger said muscles will become resulting in a more steady hold. It would also be beneficial to use a proper cuff style shooting sling such as a M1907 or a web sling. If you get a web sling I highly recommend cotton over the new nylon models as they are more comfortable and will not slip once adjusted and if buying a 1907 just pay for a good one to begin with such as one by Turner saddlery or a Ron Brown sold by Creedmoor. There are also lots of newer versions of these slings, those are just the ones adopted by the military throughout the years. However a sling isn't really going to help with fast shots in hunting situations unless you spend lots of time practicing getting into the sling and most prefer what they call a hasty sling position which can be achieved with any adjustable sling and is just a modified cuff sling position that's faster to assume, it'll help steady you and is very fast to get into.

Thanks for the advice. Yesterday I tightened up the sling a little and brought my supporting elbow way back against my side. Pretty much just held my palm flat up and rested the rifle on it. Pretty solid. Can hit a 4 inch target at 100 yards often enough to build some confidence.... but good to keep in mind a nice spring day at the gun club shooting little clay targets is a lot different than a cold drizzle in October, you are in the brush your feet are soaked and your target is running.

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Originally Posted by Herby

Thanks for the advice. Yesterday I tightened up the sling a little and brought my supporting elbow way back against my side. Pretty much just held my palm flat up and rested the rifle on it. Pretty solid. Can hit a 4 inch target at 100 yards often enough to build some confidence.... but good to keep in mind a nice spring day at the gun club shooting little clay targets is a lot different than a cold drizzle in October, you are in the brush your feet are soaked and your target is running.

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That is pretty much how I shoot High Power Silhouette, just no sling as it's not permitted. It takes lots of practice to get your form down and to have trigger control. I would say to get a 3x9 scope or at least get a trigger with a lighter adjustable pull like the Rifle Basix. You can also start by moving the target closer as off the bench that rifle is capable if much tighter groups. Are you reloading for it? It doesn't hurt to make sure the stock isn't too loose or too tight. Same thing with scope screws on the bases and rings, which scope are you using?

If you are practicing for deer hunting, shooting standing, try using a shooting stick or sticks. Really really helps steady the hold.

Will try moving the target in to around 60 yards and shooting bowling pins instead. The rifle is set up with a Leopold 4x scope and I am hand loading. Got the group size down to 1.18 inch average over 5 groups of 4 shoots each. Can't say I find the trigger bad at all, but to me the bolt really feels crappy, short and stubby and just barely clears the scope. I have plans for a 3x9 scope and to upgrade the bolt. I really like this rifle but my thinking is to not pour a bunch of money into upgrades on a $350 firearm.

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Originally Posted by Herby

Will try moving the target in to around 60 yards and shooting bowling pins instead. The rifle is set up with a Leopold 4x scope and I am hand loading. Got the group size down to 1.18 inch average over 5 groups of 4 shoots each. Can't say I find the trigger bad at all, but to me the bolt really feels crappy, short and stubby and just barely clears the scope. I have plans for a 3x9 scope and to upgrade the bolt. I really like this rifle but my thinking is to not pour a bunch of money into upgrades on a $350 firearm.

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The Axis is not a bad platform to work with. A better bolt handle will eliminate any issues working the bolt. Upgrading optics, buy the best you can afford. Take a look at Vortex scopes. The Vortex is reasonably priced and they have a great no BS warranty.

Thank you - both those things are on the list. By the way - a question about optics. A good no BS warranty is a nice thing, but lets say you are on a 10 day drop-camp hunt out in the west, 7 miles by foot from the road and your scope fogs up... if money were not an object what scope would you chose just for rock solid toughness and reliability?

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Originally Posted by Herby

Thank you - both those things are on the list. By the way - a question about optics. A good no BS warranty is a nice thing, but lets say you are on a 10 day drop-camp hunt out in the west, 7 miles by foot from the road and your scope fogs up... if money were not an object what scope would you chose just for rock solid toughness and reliability?

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NightForce or Schmidt&Bender

Dang, I would think so. Gotta save up for that.

It is pretty rare to see a scope fog up anymore, even on some of the budget scopes. Usually the issues are tracking and consistently holding zero which some Athlon and Vortex scopes are notorious for. But the Vortex scopes have a strong following. It is hard to beat Leupold for durability but the eye relief seems to shrink as you increase the power but if you slip and fall and bump the scope it will still hold zero.

Following up - my last session at the range I was shooting up the last of my ammo - just 7 rounds. I tried something different, 6 bowling pins spread out at 60 to 100 yards. Shooting off hand and fast, actually nailed all 6 pins and got a "nice shooting" compliment from the fellow next to me. I think a big part of training to shoot off hand is setting up to build confidence. Don't beat yourself up if you can't hit a 4 inch clay pigeon at 100 yards every time. Go with a bigger target closer in and nail it! Then, move it out further.

My gut feeling is the Axis is ready for hunting season as it came out of the box. It shoots well under 1.5 inch groups, consistently. For myself it handles well. I have no trouble with the stock trigger and am getting used to the bolt. Really high quality optics would be nice, but the old Leupold 4x is what I am used to.

So, on a tight budget I am putting all my shooting dollars into brass, powder bullets and primers.

You just have to shoot a lot. Standing position requires a lot of discipline. A lot of repetition. You might consider shooting a .22 or even an air rifle to get in as much trigger time as it will take to get good at it.

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Originally Posted by RCE1

You just have to shoot a lot. Standing position requires a lot of discipline. A lot of repetition. You might consider shooting a .22 or even an air rifle to get in as much trigger time as it will take to get good at it.

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Very true. I am snipping sparrows and sage rats every chance I get with a pellet gun...

I used to do a lot of Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette shooting. I was in Big Timber once and visited a well known national champion of the sport. He is an excellent offhand shot, which separates the champions from the rest of the herd in BPCRS, and leaning in a corner of his shop, there was a spring piston air rifle...

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Originally Posted by Herby

Thank you - both those things are on the list. By the way - a question about optics. A good no BS warranty is a nice thing, but lets say you are on a 10 day drop-camp hunt out in the west, 7 miles by foot from the road and your scope fogs up... if money were not an object what scope would you chose just for rock solid toughness and reliability?

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I trust my Burris XTR2's to be a super rugged scope and always track perfect.

How often do you take 4 shots at a deer or other animal while hunting? Even 2 or 3 shots for that matter? Usually they're long gone by the time you miss the first shot, chamber another round and try to get back on target. Given that, I would focus more on shooting a single shot and spacing them out a few minutes. Get up and walk around or get a drink or whatever between shots, then when it's time for the next one practice from the rest or port arms position the same as you would while hunting. Bring the gun up, establish you position and take your shot.

You'll get less stressed and fatigued this way and it's more applicable practice for the field than trying to shoot a small group with a string of shots. Also lets the barrel cool down so you'll always be shooting a cold bore just like in the field.

If you’re hitting a clay pigeon at 100 more often than not, you’re already shooting better than most of us except for the bullshitters. Keep up the good work!

Actually, I hesitate to admit but several times deer hunting I have had to take more than one shot.... nerves, excitement, surprise or fatigue - I have missed the first shot. Clean missed. The thing about mule deer seems to be they will run off a little, then stop and look back. This has happened twice. So, knowing how things go for me - my practice includes slow and deliberate shooting, as well as quick and more instinctive shooting of multiple spaced targets. (Bowling pins) The 7mm - 08 is great. Should have switched from the 30-06 long ago.



By no means am I hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards more often than not from a standing position. Sitting position yes. Bowling pins - quiet a bit bigger yes.

119 days till deer season!

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Originally Posted by Herby

Actually, I hesitate to admit but several times deer hunting I have had to take more than one shot.... nerves, excitement, surprise or fatigue - I have missed the first shot. Clean missed. The thing about mule deer seems to be they will run off a little, then stop and look back. This has happened twice. So, knowing how things go for me - my practice includes slow and deliberate shooting, as well as quick and more instinctive shooting of multiple spaced targets. (Bowling pins) The 7mm - 08 is great. Should have switched from the 30-06 long ago.





By no means am I hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards more often than not from a standing position. Sitting position yes. Bowling pins - quiet a bit bigger yes.

119 days till deer season!

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You brought up a good point about mulies. When I lived in New Mexico you could stop a mulie from running/bounding with a loud whistle giving you time to get a shot.