help/advice on scope/maybe?

hello folks,i bought a new savage 223 12 BTCSS about 6 weeks ago,put a used bushnell banner 6-18 x50 that i bought form a site.(all i could stretch to at the time) got it zeroed well hitting well inside an inch at 100 yards,went hunting, shot a few rabbits head shots at 150 -170 yards,i was well pleased,next day went hunting again,missed everything,checked zero,was off 2 1/2 ins to left ,:confused:,reset again,put 3 into an inch,went off shot a few more rabbits,all good,next day same thing missed 7 in a row,checked zero,was off by 2/12 inches to the right and inch high, ***,?? and so this has been the norm for the last 4 weeks,having to zero ever shoot,now im using the same horndy 55 grain factory rounds,the gun was not dropped,or banged in any way,its cleaned after every 100 shots to date,everything is tight,hawke mounts,no wind,prone off a bipod,on the same land,one day it groups well,next day its way off,do you think the scope is jacked,? i think so,i cant think of any other reason,was thinking of getting a new hawke vantage 6-24x50,any opinions on that scope? i used hawkes before with no problems on a hmr and 22lr.thanks in advance for help/advice........has anyone else ever had a similar issue?

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Originally Posted by snipereye

hello folks,i bought a new savage 223 12 BTCSS about 6 weeks ago,put a used bushnell banner 6-18 x50 that i bought form a site.(all i could stretch to at the time) got it zeroed well hitting well inside an inch at 100 yards,went hunting, shot a few rabbits head shots at 150 -170 yards,i was well pleased,next day went hunting again,missed everything,checked zero,was off 2 1/2 ins to left ,:confused:,reset again,put 3 into an inch,went off shot a few more rabbits,all good,next day same thing missed 7 in a row,checked zero,was off by 2/12 inches to the right and inch high, ***,?? and so this has been the norm for the last 4 weeks,having to zero ever shoot,now im using the same horndy 55 grain factory rounds,the gun was not dropped,or banged in any way,its cleaned after every 100 shots to date,everything is tight,hawke mounts,no wind,prone off a bipod,on the same land,one day it groups well,next day its way off,do you think the scope is jacked,? i think so,i cant think of any other reason,was thinking of getting a new hawke vantage 6-24x50,any opinions on that scope? i used hawkes before with no problems on a hmr and 22lr.thanks in advance for help/advice

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I believe that you are correct in thinking that the scope has a problem. Tim

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Originally Posted by astjp2

I believe that you are correct in thinking that the scope has a problem. Tim

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hi,yes i think so,but i cannot see any viable faults,maybe the cross hairs are faulty/loose

Just to be sure that the scope is the problem, which I think it well may be, you might want to just check to see if you are having any problems with eye relief and getting in the center of the optical plane.
It will save you having to buy a new scope.

Set up on aim point that is about the distance you intend to be hunting. It would be wise to shoot from a bench to be sure the hold is steady.
After you are sure you are comfortable and set up as you would be on your aim point, close your eye for a few seconds and then open it.
If the reticle has shifted away from your aim point, you probably not setting up on the center of the optical plane at a consistent eye relief distance.
If that is the case, the reticle was not the actual POA, so you were not aiming at your precise target.

Too close to the scope and your Point of Impact will be higher than your Point of Aim.
Too far back and the POI will be lower than your POA.
If you stray to the right or the left of the center line of the optical plane, your POI will be right or left.

Either too little or too much eye relief and being off the center line will cause your POA to be off, even if you thought reticle is right on the target.

To check, first I set up in a steady position and then move my head (very slightly) back until the black ring appears around the edge of the scope image.
If the black ring isn't concentric, you are not in the center of the optical plane.
I move my head until the ring is concentric and then move my head back until the black ring remains concentric as it just disappears.
Then I know I am in the center of the optical plane and in the right eye relief position.
Then I do the "eye close and open" test.
I think you will probably find that the POA is still on target if you have done all those steps.

If you do that and still have bullets go astray, it is most likely your scope and not you.

Cannot say it better than that!:tea:

thanks cf for that write up,dont think i have eye relief problems,if i were would i not be able to get good groups at all?like i said each time i set the scope its grouping good,then ill fire 5 to eight shots at my targets,(rabbit)it seems to knock em ,then next session,its off 2-3 inches,and i have to re zero,its like that every shoot,im just gonna buy another scope a hawke,and see what happens,one should not have to zero for every shoot,wasting alot of ammo

Another option would be to remove the scope and rings. Remove scope base. Clean everything very well then reset it all while checking torque values to make certain everything is seated square and properly tightened.

snipereye,

Just trying to save you a few bucks.
You're probably right, and it is your scope.
I've had a few, bargain scopes fail over the years, mostly when I was younger and trying to save a few bucks, so I am well aware that it happens.

However, hunting conditions tend to create opportunities for inconsistent set up and those variations can cause some pretty wide deviations in POI.
That might have caused some of the differences, but if you have been a consistently accurate hunter, you know what you are doing.

But even during my bench sessions, there are days when I can't seem to get my set-up consistent, and my groups vary a lot.
I measure everything, so when the standard deviation for the groups I shot during a session is much larger than normal, it usually means I had a bad day setting up.
Most days, my shooting is pretty good and very consistent with my target rifles.
I do occasionally find a particular bullet - powder combination doesn't perform very well, but the deviation in group size is still pretty consistent, just larger - the rifle just didn't perform well with that combination.
But I can tell when I am not consistently setting up when the group sizes during a session vary a lot - some good and some horrendous.
It happens to all of us, even shooters who are much better than I am. It just happens less often to them.

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don't think i have eye relief problems,if i were would i not be able to get good groups at all?

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+1.

id like to thank all of you for your help/advice,i have now ordered a hawke scope,when i get it and have it mounted,then zeroed,ill post here with results.

update...got and mounted,and zeroed new hawke vantage 6-24x50,used it today shot a good few rabbits,ill see now if it holds zero over the next few days,

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Originally Posted by snipereye

update...got and mounted,and zeroed new hawke vantage 6-24x50,used it today shot a good few rabbits,ill see now if it holds zero over the next few days,

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There are a couple different Vantage models.. Did you get the one with 1” main tube & AO, or 30mm tube & SF? Also Illuminated & capped or Target Turrets?

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

There are a couple different Vantage models.. Did you get the one with 1” main tube & AO, or 30mm tube & SF? Also Illuminated & capped or Target Turrets?

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hello,i got the one with 1 inch tube capped AO IR,will see ho it preforms over the next few days

While Hawke is relatively new here in the USA it is well know in the UK.

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Originally Posted by prdatr

While Hawke is relatively new here in the USA it is well know in the UK.

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Yes, Hawke are like the Bushnell of the US.

Hawke has been available in the US for at least 15 years. They were the cheap tactical scope for a few years. So not new like Vortex, Athlon, Tract or any of the others from the last decade.
I think comparing them to Bushnell is a stretch even though Bushnell does have a bottom end. Just one guys opinion.

hi folks,just an update for anyone interested,the new hawke scope seems to be working great,its holding zero,and im getting very good groups, and head shooting rabbits out past 170 yards,wiil push a bit further in the future,thanks to all for help/advice

Good news, and it was obviously the old scope.
Happy to hear that you found the solution without breaking the bank.