Advice for Upgrading Mod12 223 & Chambering issue

Over in my introduction, I mentioned I'm a young dad "balling on budget" out here. Firstly, I must say now that I'm getting the feel for my 12 FV, I really like it. I see I can't post attachments, but I've included a link. I'm not trying to circumvent the rules here, I'm just too shooting ignorant to describe what groupings I shot whilst adjusting my scope. Group #1 didn't hit paper. I put the paper on my target at 278 yards from the bench.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kxa...ew?usp=sharing

That said, I would like to use the gun primarily for coyote and prairie dog control, perhaps a doe next fall where I might need a follow up shot. So the blind mag really confuses me. Bear in mind, this is the first new rifle I've ever purchased, not including my lever action Henry .22, which is a totally different ball game. Before that I shot my dad's Winchester 22-250 bolt action. It has a mag that holds 3 and feeds perfectly. This mag was told to me to be the same deal by the salesman, but for the life of me I cannot see how a .223 casing is supposed to go down into the mag. I couldn't just lay a round on top of the mag and chamber it. It caught the bottom edge of the chamber. I had to literally get each round finessed up toward the chamber before the bolt would carry it up and in. I'm sure this is an issue with my ignorance, but it is very frustrating and certainly counter productive to smoking the coyote you barely missed with shot #1.

Beyond that, I am thinking of doing a couple minor things to improve my repeatability and just the appeal of the gun. I have Warne medium rings which accommodate the 50 bell scope very close to the barrel, but probably need a cheek piece (really small guy). I figure a sleeve on the stock is a good way to get that done cheaply? Any suggestions on quality brands?

Second, I would like to upgrade to a 1 piece mounting rail, and probably even bed it to the barrel while I'm at it. Any good rails that will accommodate loading rounds easily and fit this specific model?

Finally, I would love to get a 10 round mag well into this weapon. Is that an upgrade that could get done without changing the stock entirely? I'd love to change the stock someday, but it's probably going to have to harvest me some pelts this winter before that can happen. Basically, anything I can do to get me out of loading one clumsy round at a time and hoping I absolutely get a perfect knock down with one shot.

Thank you, I apologize if I sound unintelligent or am asking obvious questions. Like I said, this is the first real rifle I've purchased for myself, and while I'm price conscious, I'd like to make it a decent looking gun that shoots very accurate and repeatable at 200+.

Thanks!

You can't set it on top of the feed lips and push it down into the magazine?

Congratulations on the rifle and welcome to the forum. Those were probably the biggest bargain in rifles I've seen in a long time.

Loading most rifle magazines are just a matter of laying the round on top of the feed lips and pressing down on it until it goes into the magazine.

Changing to a larger mag would require a lot more work. You'd be better off waiting til you buy a new stock for it and then get one that is made for larger capacity magazines.

There are some Kydex cheek pieces that can be fitted to a plastic stock. The require some work for the screws but are adjustable. Others are slip on or strap on. They all work so just pick one you like. You will have to remove it when you want to remove the bolt for cleaning (or at least lower it).

I'd wait on the one piece scope rail until you figure out the magazine loading technique. The rail will be a bit 'in the way' until you get the hang of it.

You are shooting very well. Those are small groups for over 250yd.

As Robinhood asked... the rounds are not just easily pushed down into the magazine like in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JnfV6OHEcE

Other things are as Charlie pointed out. Your current setup is just fine. Warne rings are good quality, so no need to get a one piece “just because”. Again, as mentioned, detachable mag would require considerable modification. Very honestly, it would not be worth doing to the basic synthetic stock. One thing which will always be beneficial(and inexpensive), is bedding the Action. There are countless tutorial online. It’s not difficult if you research, plan & take your time. There are some simple cheek rests that simply slip over the shoulder stock. If you’re scope objective is very close to the barrel, you shouldn’t need much rise for eye level, if any. I wouldn’t worry about the adjustable pieces.

Something like this should work just fine: https://www.amazon.com/TOURBON-Black...499808&sr=8-11


But if you really want adjustable and can do a bit of stock drilling/fab work, something inexpensive like this: https://www.amazon.com/TOURBON-Black...499808&sr=8-11

It’s not something I would spend a lot on.

Lately I have pretty much decided to read threads on forums, learn what I can from them, and keep any comments to Myself. I’m now experiencing a moment of weakness and will break My new found rule.

In the link that Dave posted, these guys went to a good bit of trouble to produce this video. They were diligent in pointing out the muzzle of the rifle. I know the rounds used in the demonstration were non functional, but they still should have emphasized “pointing the muzzle in a safe direction” when loading the rifle. If that 223 discharged at that angle, the bullet would land somewhere in the next county, or go through the neighbors 2nd story window.

That Savage 11 has the 3 position safety, the middle position allows the bolt to cycle, but not fire. That feature should have been pointed out. But nothing excuses the muzzle being pointed in an unsafe position.

When giving expert advice, it is best to cover all the bases, especially the critical ones.

I will now return to My cave and shut up :(

Oh, that’s not some video I use as a teaching tool. Was simply the first video I could easily find of LOADING the rounds by pushing them straight down. Which was the emphasis of the question asked & discussion. I wasn’t concerned with anything else. Didn’t even watch most of the video.

I wouldn’t purposefully look for a video with all the “proper” safety techniques anyway, as the OP has already informed us & demonstrated that he has a grasp of proper safety & use. Just wanted to clarify since my name was brought up....I have NOTHING to do with the video. Again, was the first which showed exactly what Robin referred to is all.

Gren, you are correct. Those things should be stressed in one’s instruction. I always have & do in the past when I’m instructing.

Understood Dave. Post #5 was not directed at You. It was directed at “dm guys” what made the video :smile-new:

Oh yeah Gren..... I didn’t think you were bud. I just wanted to make sure everyone who reads understand. I agree with what you said completely. If a person is going to instruct, they should make certain to do it correctly. And safety is the number one thing. Because a bullet doesn't care who are, what color/race/nationality/sex/creed or BLOOD TYPE you are! Bullets don’t have a single thought of politics nor agenda. And a bullet’s ONLY job is to destroy ANYTHING in it’s path! Doesn’t matter if it’s shot with bad intent, disregard or “the best intentions”.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

Congratulations on the rifle and welcome to the forum. Those were probably the biggest bargain in rifles I've seen in a long time.

Loading most rifle magazines are just a matter of laying the round on top of the feed lips and pressing down on it until it goes into the magazine.

Changing to a larger mag would require a lot more work. You'd be better off waiting til you buy a new stock for it and then get one that is made for larger capacity magazines.

There are some Kydex cheek pieces that can be fitted to a plastic stock. The require some work for the screws but are adjustable. Others are slip on or strap on. They all work so just pick one you like. You will have to remove it when you want to remove the bolt for cleaning (or at least lower it).

I'd wait on the one piece scope rail until you figure out the magazine loading technique. The rail will be a bit 'in the way' until you get the hang of it.

You are shooting very well. Those are small groups for over 250yd.

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First of all, thank you charlie b and Dave Hoback and GrenGuy for all piling in to help me out here. That was very good information, and for lack of a better word, reassuring that I haven't done too bad of a job getting this weapon set up at the store.

Also, many thanks for the complementing of my shooting. I'm not sure it's well deserved, but I am very happy with the platform and hope to do it justice on coyote pelts this winter.

So the primary question, the loading. After reading through everything, it seemed to me that's precisely how this gun should work. I fiddled around with a spent cartridge for a while this morning and accidentally discovered my problem. The little "lips" I guess they'd be, what hold the rounds down in the mag under the bolt, were just tight enough I was afraid to press the round in too hard and risk a jam in a blind mag. My dad's gun was several hundred rounds in by the time I got old enough to start using it, so I suppose I was used to not only a slightly different mag, but also how tight all the new components are. A little more fresh oil on top of what I used in my bolt yesterday and we are off to the prairie dog town to get rolling.

Insofar as changing the mag, now that I can get a couple rounds in there, I'm all good to rock and roll until a stock upgrade is in order. I have only ever once hit a departing coyote on shot #3, and that was teenage stupidity and dumb luck that met that day.

Also appreciate the other info on bedding the action. I will likely take that project on as I have noticed a slightest bit of play between the barrel and stock just in front of the chamber.

I am a super small, thin faced fellow, but I think I've been able to adjust my cheek weld to this new stock in a way that offers enough consistency for this winter.

Finally, I do want to reassure you guys that while shy on gun "savvy," I am long on gun safety. Especially with young ones around, I'd just as soon not have a gun as handle/store/load it in even a remotely unsafe manner. Thanks again for everything, hope to check in with some good news on pelts and offer what little I can to the discussion, and certainly soak up all the good info that's available on here.

Cheers, and thanks!

Partner, just one thing on your wording there. You mentioned glass bedding & how there is “play” in front of the chamber. The bedding is forthright Action ONLY! Never the barrel! You don’t want ANY part of the barrel, including the Barrel Nut, to be touching anything. Not the stock, and certainly not glass bedding epoxy to take up space between stock & Barrel. Like I said; once you start researching...watch a few videos, you’ll be able to see. And if you are unsure, don’t hesitate to ask here about a specific piece of information, video, etc.

Forgot also, if see your reticle as being canted, don’t hesitate to loosen the scope just enough to degree the reticle straight to YOUR eye.

Thank you Dave. I got about 15 prairie dogs knocked out today, and I felt even out in the field, my reticle was lined up dang near perfect now that I'm used to the gun. Made several successful 150-200 yard shots, so I'm feeling much more confident that I'm getting things dialed in.

I'll certainly get better educated before I mess with any sort of bedding or upgrading, but I'm glad you brought that up. Learning a lot here! Steep curve over the handful of days I've had the gun. Picking up a lot.

200yd shots on Pdogs..can’t complain about that. Glad you’re enjoying your Savage. Savage is so deeply hated by many, over any other rifle. It’s a shame. I feel bad for the flagrant ignorance by the nay sayers. Makes me smile seeing another recognize Savage for what they are & bring to the table. Who knows....maybe you’ll come to TRULY love Savage Actions & build your own truly custom Savage, as I & many others here do.

You're welcome and congrats on the results.

I'd really not worry about bedding the action at this point the way it is shooting. Unless you just want to try your hand at it.

Savage wasn't a gun maker I had yet heard of until I went after purchasing a rifle of my own that wouldn't break the bank. I wanted one that'd do brisk business at distance and last a generation or two. I must say, every "out of the box" positive YouTube review vid I watched didn't over-inflate my hopes. I consider myself a decent shot (maybe we all do??), but this is by FAR the best performance I've gotten from a .223 or .22-250 on those little prairie wrecking rascals. Probably didn't hurt that after 5+ years of not having picked up a high powered rifle, I invested in a little tack driver pillow and spent time making sure my shooting position was proper. All plays a factor, hard to say what the exact issue is when you miss. I guess more than likely human error with this beast.

The performance I'm getting leads me to think that I'll just keep chasing vermin with pelts for this winter season, then maybe collect a couple more of these black plastic beauties over the next couple years. As the kids grow and I get a little more stable in business, it would be nice to take 3-5 years of shooting and learning and bring it to build #1. My dad and I only ever got to go coyote hunting together one time, and I'll cherish that memory forever. I'd like to create more than a couple with my kiddos. Plus guns last, and they are an important tool to know how to use. I think I've got the bug!

Again, let me say many thanks for all the effort and help and patience here. Always great to find welcoming and decent folks when you're new to something. Here's to some good cold weather and a couple snows to set up some work for old model 12.

Yes, it is a lot of you in shooting small groups like that. And, yes, when I miss a 'sure' target I know it is me and not the rifle :)

The sad part is I don't think Cabela's has ordered any more 12FV's. Not sure if there will be such a bargain rifle in the future. I do wish Savage would just make a similar rifle, varmint (or target?) trigger and heavy barrel in plain action and stock.

Kinda like the heavy barrel Axis that Walmart used to sell.

Well oddly enough, I found this at a Big R (farm/ranch/sporting goods) store out here, and quite by accident. I was hoping for a 110 model. After doing all that research, I came to find "12 FV" would indicate a Cabela's exclusive, but that's certainly the model I have stamped on the box, and everything about the gun matches the build of that model. The sales guy did say they'd had it one the shelf for quite a while, but it wasn't a used gun for certain. Perhaps I should dig into manufacture date if that can be determined.

Regardless, it's a thrill to find something heavy duty that does it's job well. Not gorgeous or well loved, but dependable. Reminds me of my old Ford Crown Vic. Heavy, looked and drove like a boat, never once left me stranded over the hundred thousand or so I had her.

Well, in reality you DO have a model 110.... or "10" as I'm used to calling it. Have you learned yet about the nonsense in the Model naming? That is they were models 10, 11, 12, 14 & 16 for SHORT Action & models 110, 111, 112, 114 & 116 for LONG Action. (Don't ask me why there was never a Model 13/113 or 15/115.) And now they have done away with the TWO digit naming, instead referring to the models as 110 SHORT & 110 LONG Actions respectively. None the less, the Actions have been very much the same. They accept the same parts, in that they can actually SHARE various parts. There have been a few differences to the Actions over the years. But for the most part Model Actions have MORE in common than not. Your 12FV & a Model 10 like mine, could share EVERY part between them.

Awesome to know. Probably comes in handy when building! Dave, I'm starting to think you're something of a Savage expert! Thanks.

Well thank you, but there are guys here who know quite a bit more than I do. I enjoy this Forum & like helping where I can. Because Christ has done for me, I am compelled to do what I can. Also, I know what it’s like being a young father & making ends meet. Wink-wink

The good part of the 12FV, for me anyway, is it comes witth the Varmint trigger and heavier barrel. Not usually found on the lower priced models.

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Well, we're nearly so broke we can't pay attention. But I ring the gong 6 days a week, so we keep food in the pantry.

Kind of nice to go out on an evening or weekend and enjoy the challenge and reward of using a gun for target practice or pelt harvesting. Releases a lot of the week's stress. Probably puts me in a better frame of mind when I get home.

Hey partner, I tried Messaging you, but it's not activated. Not sure if you have PM turned off, or maybe you need a certain number of posts. I can't remember. Ahh well.

Hey Dave, I believe I don’t have that privilege with my current account.

mytfarms@gmail.com is a good email. That one already gets spammed like crazy, can’t hurt to post it here! I’ll look for your email, thanks!


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