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I just bought one of these neat little 22 autos and am trying to get as much information about it as possible, and find info is quite scarce.
First, I'd like to date it closer than "1912-1916". Ser. # is 10150.
Also trying to locate a good schematic, copy of original advertising, and a bit of history about it.
Hoping to find some help or direction here. Thanks.
There apparently are no good records of dates of manufacture for the 1912's, a friend sent in for a letter on one and got told that by the Savage Historian - the letter he paid for just had basic dates of manufacture information - 1912 to 1916. You could guess at a date range from the serial number - numbers started at 1000 and the highest I have seen is just under 14,025, but most of the production could have been done in just the first couple years.
Following is a copy of a post I did on another forum,
Some 1912's
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...0x/1912s01.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...0x/1912s10.jpg
So, what if you ever need parts for one .......
.... two different cartridge guides & at least four different bolts ...
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../1912s15-1.jpg
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...0x/1912s03.jpg
... four different variation of magazine, two different action slide assembly's, the early type had a spring to keep it in unlocked position and only relied on friction to keep the action open, later style snapped into either position.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../1912s16-1.jpg
... different barrel stamps ...
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a.../1912s04-1.jpg
... this shows a milled relief used to support the action lock that was use on 1909's & pre-1914 1903's, it was eliminated in later 1903's $ 1914's. Since 1912's didn't use an action stop it's not needed and usually not found on 1912's. I know this is a 1912 part because I took the parts from it. The ejector is in a 1912 in Canada now. Even if it wouldn't have had the other parts it could be identified as 1912 because of the straight lower tang & four digit serial number, a 1909 would be the same but would have a 100,000 plus serial number, an early 1903 would also have a four digit serial & straight lower tang but would have a different design ejector. It also should be noted that the 1912 hammer is different than a 1903 & 1914 and I have been informed they do not interchange by a member who tried an 1912 in a 1903.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...0x/1912s00.jpg
The 1912 being a modification of the 1903 had much of it's design covered by the 1906 patent for the 1903 which was stamped on the guns; here is the patent for the changes to make the 1912, I don't know if this patent was ever stamped on any 1912's - 1912 patent
Sav22 thank you for a lot of great information. I obviously came to the right place in my search. Mine looks quite a bit like the middle one in your photo as far as condition. Now, with the information you provided, I will have to examine it closely and determine which variation I have. I took it out in the yard today to shoot it for the first time, and loaded 5 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity. All rounds fired and ejected but each time, the next round wouldn't feed from the magazine. I was considering trying a few rounds of High Speed to see if it would improve the feeding but I'm hesitant to run High Speeds through this old timer. Before I do that, I'm going to try the magazine from my 1909 Pump and see if results change which would indicate a magazine problem. Thanks again for your help.
Do not use Hi-Speed! Make sure the cartridge guide above the bolt is dropping down to line up correctly with the chamger when the bolt is open.
Do not use Hi-Speed!!! Make sure the cartridge guide above the bolt is dropping down to line up with the chamber when the bolt opens.
Here's a picture of a low serial number 1912 that was sent back to the factory for repair sometime after 1931 when Hi-Speed ammunition became readily available, it had a big stamp added to the side of the receiver -
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...psth8whljt.jpg
"NOT DESIGNED FOR USE WITH HI-SPEED CARTRIDGES"
Hi Sav22 -
Since you're so well versed in the Mod. 1912, I'm writing to hopefully pick your brain to solve a problem with my 1912.
I took it down, cleaned, & lubed it and took it out with 5 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity ammo for a test run. It fires and ejects perfectly, but it will not re-cock the hammer and strip the next round out of the magazine. It's as if the bolt is not coming back far enough to cock the hammer and pick up the next round in the magazine. If I load one round in the magazine, it fires, ejects the empty and the bolt is held open on the empty magazine. Even though I have nothing to compare it to, everything inside looks normal. Nothing looks chipped or broken or excessively worn - ?? I'm hoping you might have some idea as to what may be causing this problem. It's a nice autoloader but not so nice single shot... Thanks.
P.M. & email sent.
I am assuming from what you say that with the first round it will feed from the magazine and everything seems to function fine, it's only after firing the first round that there are problems.
Have you tried to manually work the action without firing and see if the gun will cycle more than one round that way?
If that works then try this with the gun empty or with dummy rounds (or with live rounds if in a safe location to do that) - pull the slide back 1/2 to 3/4 of the way and pull & hold the trigger (this will drop the hammer with out possibility of the firing pin damaging the rim of the chamber), then see if the slide will go fully back (keep the trigger pulled) and cock the hammer.
The only thing I can think of is that some parts are froze up and not moving properly or possibly some parts were changed with those from a slide action that although they may fit, they will not function as they should.
The interrupter parts in the trigger may not be moving correctly, or maybe bent, or the hammer maybe wrong, and with the trigger pulled the hammer is blocked, which then blocks the slide and keeps the action from fully cycling.
Here are patent drawing for comparison, note that the 1912 took a different hammer than the 1903 & 1914 that required clearance for the internal parts in the interrupter trigger.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/a...pswsngw95k.jpg
PS - 1912 hammers do not use an action lock so they do not have the pin that released it (or the hole for one) visible on the right side - shown in the 1914 patent in the hammer just below the hammer pivot hole.
Thanks Sav22. I'll study what you sent and post findings, if any.
I was going to include a link to the patent drawings and forgot, these show the parts as they were when designed, as you probably figured out from the previous post there were a lot of changes made during production - https://www.google.us/patents/US1100766
Update: Mine seems to be like the lower one in the pictures (later model), but has an earlier mag. with the nickel plated folower. Bolt, hammer, and cartridge guide are exactly as shown in the lowest action picture.
I inserted a loaded mag. and manually cycled the action. All rounds fed and extracted, and cocked the hammer each time. Next, I retracted the bolt 3/4 of the way back while holding the trigger back to release the hammer, and let the bolt go forward. Then while still holding the trigger back, pulled the bolt fully back and it would not cock the hammer and set the trigger. I can't figure out why everything is as it should be when manually cycled and fired, but not when I just chamber a round and fire it. Obviously the bolt comes back far enough to eject the fired round, but doesn't reset the hammer & trigger or feed the next round - I'm stumped and would really appreciate some opinions. It's a cute little single shot, but I want more.
When I suggested the test, I gave a couple opinions as to what could cause the problem - I assumed something was keeping the hammer from fully cocking only when the trigger is pulled, which them would block the bolt from full travel, it's probably not much. Another thing you could try is pull the bolt back as far as it will go with the trigger pulled and while still pulling on the bolt release the trigger and see if the bolt will then move slightly and cock the hammer.Quote:
Originally Posted by wesuredo
Your test gave the exact results I thought it would and what I suggested above might be causing this is that the internal parts in the interrupter trigger could be locked up and not moving, or you may have some wrong parts in it, possibly a hammer from a slide action. Try dripping some penetrating oil inside the trigger & letting it set. Could you post pictures of the inside of both halves of the receiver?
I tried the test you suggested, hammer still didn't cock. I also soaked the trigger with Kroil overnight, still no change. I'm beginning to dread having to figure out how to disassemble and inspect the trigger, but eventually will do what I must to get it working properly. I took photos of both halfs of the receiver, and as soon as I get through a computer crash, I will post them.
Well, I seem to have muddled my way through my computer problem (unlike my 1912 problem), and I've taken some pictures of both halfs of my problem child's receiver, which to my eye looks exactly like the lower of the four shots posted above. However, the Posting Permissions below is telling me I may not post attachments ?? I'd like you to see them for your evaluation. Any idea why I'm not allowed to attach pictures to my post ?
This link should open the pictures of my 1912. If it works, I'd like to know what you think.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1074343...Niy8PHVi6emhgE
Everything shown in the pictures looks correct. I can't see anything that would interfere with the action from fully cycling, you may have to try and take the trigger apart. When you shot it did you feel any movement on the trigger like something was hitting it when the bolt came back? I am sorry I can't give a definite answer, I have never heard of this problem before.
I didn't feel any movement in the trigger when firing it. All the parts appearing correct, I guess that indicates a problem in the trigger. I guess I'll have to start figuring out how to get it out of the gun and disassemble it (any tips on that process ?). If I'm able to do that, and find anything, I'll post results here.