Adapter externally adjustable scope to savage rifle

Once again I can't get the pictures to print here. I have the article with pictures if anyone is interested, PM me and I'll send the article.
This allows me to move the scope around among guns, just as I move a EX Weaver t36 among guns. I don't like to transport a rifle with scope attached.


Sometimes we want to mount externally adjustable scopes on (generally bolt action) rifles that have mounts for internally adjustable scopes. If the rifle is a Savage and the owner changes barrels, we can’t comfortably put a scope block on the barrel.
I asked Steve Earle to make me a loooong scope block to fit a Savage M10 rifle, and he did.
Steve Earle Products, Inc.
24 Palmer Rd., Plympton MA 02367
781-585-3929
steven.m.earle@comcast.net
www.steveearleproducts.com

Here’s the loooong block







Here’s the block on the Savage. It screws onto the holes in the front and rear rings used to mount Weaver etc. scope mounts.








And here’s a Lyman STS scope on the block on the Savage.

The fly cuts for the scope mounts can be put anywhere on the block, allowing positioning of the scope as desired.
Here’s why I decided on this setup.
The rear mount of the scope can go above either the front or rear receiver ring on a bolt-action rifle. Having the rear mount any place over action cut out interferes with putting cartridges in the gun and getting them out
If the rear mount is over the rear ring, a lot of the scope is cantilevered out front with nothing supporting it.
With the rear scope mount over the front receiver ring, I can get cartridges in and cases out of the gun easily. The only drawback is that as shown, there is no rearward adjustment left-the scope won’t go any further back. I have no trouble shooting the gun with the scope in this position, others may differ.
The block and scope have a pretty long cantilever, but a locked screw through the loooong block and touching the barrel would take the curse off the cantilever.

Or I will send the pictures if you're interested.

Joe, realize that im in my 80th year walking arount this planet. To me it seems yesterday those type scopes were all there were for target shooting.
That also included long range hunting. Leupold didnt introduce target knobs till the 80s. Scopes like nightforce dident even exist or at least hadnt been heard of.
Devices were made so these type scopes could be mounted on and extend beyond standard actions. There were also barrel sleeves that screwed onto the front of actions.
So that the front scope block could be mounted on it and not the barrel directly. Which would move when heated thus in effect changing your scope zero.
There were some barrel sleeves that also sleeved the entire action, thereby stiffening it. "today youd buy a custon action"
If you would ask most owners and users of those scopes what the click value was you would be apt to get a blank stare.
Unless you were a hunter using one it really didnt matter much. The answer is it can be about whatever youd like as scope block spacing determines that.
Today if you would go to a sanctioned rifle match you would rarly if ever find one of those type scopes in use. Some old guy like me might still have one
on an old 40x varmit rifle for posterities sake. There would be no other valid reason to be using one and you can trust me on that.
A 55 chevy today would bring 10 times what it sold for new and depending upon condition maybe more. Trust me on that also because i owned one.
Take a drive in one for more than 15 minits especially on a hot day and you will be glad to climb back into your new one. Ditto the old lyman, and ditto the old unertles also.
The horse is dead joe, move on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yobuck

Joe, realize that im in my 80th year walking arount this planet....
A 55 chevy today would bring 10 times what it sold for new and depending upon condition maybe more. Trust me on that also because i owned one.
Take a drive in one for more than 15 minits especially on a hot day and you will be glad to climb back into your new one. Ditto the old lyman, and ditto the old unertles also.
The horse is dead joe, move on.

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No more worry about me being the crotchety(old or otherwise) guy around here. ;) 80 years old...I honestly didn't expect that.

Well im not 80 yet, in my 80th year means im only 79 lol.
Apperently joe here thinks he has a treasure in that old lyman.
The fact is he does, but it will come by way of cash when he sells it and
not by way of quality in using it. Same goes for 55 chevys.
By the time you could even find the groundhog with those things it was
back down its hole for a long nap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yobuck

Well im not 80 yet, in my 80th year means im only 79 lol.
Apperently joe here thinks he has a treasure in that old lyman.
The fact is he does, but it will come by way of cash when he sells it and
not by way of quality in using it. Same goes for 55 chevys.
By the time you could even find the groundhog with those things it was
back down its hole for a long nap.

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My Lyman STS scopes compare favorably with modern scopes-Weaver T36 for example. While the STS scopes are in 10, 12, 15, 20, 25 and 30 X, the T36 is 36X, but side by side there's little difference in optical quality, the Lymans being only slightly better. I have no Nightforce etc $1000+ new scopes, never saw the advantage after side by side looking. The Unertls are as good as the STS scopes, Litschert/Davis optics are better in my opinion, construction is not up to par. I like the ability to put these scopes on Savage rifles, easy on and off, and the micrometer adjustments are easy to read and record. Why are T36 scopes 9 min/" per revolution?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joeb33050

My Lyman STS scopes compare favorably with modern scopes-Weaver T36 for example. While the STS scopes are in 10, 12, 15, 20, 25 and 30 X, the T36 is 36X, but side by side there's little difference in optical quality, the Lymans being only slightly better. I have no Nightforce etc $1000+ new scopes, never saw the advantage after side by side looking. The Unertls are as good as the STS scopes, Litschert/Davis optics are better in my opinion, construction is not up to par. I like the ability to put these scopes on Savage rifles, easy on and off, and the micrometer adjustments are easy to read and record. Why are T36 scopes 9 min/" per revolution?

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Joe its got nothing to do with the optical quality. You are correct in that optical quality will rival many of todays scopes.
If your simply using those scopes for punching holes in paper at close distances you will be ok.
If however you intend using them for hunting for varmits or even long range shooting you will soon see the limitations of those scopes.
#1 will be the very limited field of view in both scopes. You might already know the difficulty in finding the target you intend shooting at.
The t36 weaver is a highly regarded scope by serious bench rest shooters. there are several of them on this site who could offer better information
than i can on this scope. The 9 minit per rev question means the scope has 9 minits or 36 clicks for each time you make a full turn on the dial. That would
depend upon click value however. My answer is assuming 1/4 min clicks. 1/8 min would be double or 72 clicks. That why minits are better than counting clicks.
a minit is always a minit, 1" @100 yds regardless of how many clicks.
On the other hand the exterior micrometer on the lyman is a different animal.
If your scope block spacings are 14. 5" apart center to center you will have 1/8 min adjustments on the dial. If they are half that distance you will have 1/4 min
adjustments. Inything else and you wont know for sure what you have till you shoot and program it.
If all this sounds complicated to you its only because it is. Thats what i meant by my comment about moving on.
Take the cash and run, you will never be sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yobuck

Joe its got nothing to do with the optical quality. You are correct in that optical quality will rival many of todays scopes.
If your simply using those scopes for punching holes in paper at close distances you will be ok.
If however you intend using them for hunting for varmits or even long range shooting you will soon see the limitations of those scopes.
#1 will be the very limited field of view in both scopes. You might already know the difficulty in finding the target you intend shooting at.
The t36 weaver is a highly regarded scope by serious bench rest shooters. there are several of them on this site who could offer better information
than i can on this scope. The 9 minit per rev question means the scope has 9 minits or 36 clicks for each time you make a full turn on the dial. That would
depend upon click value however. My answer is assuming 1/4 min clicks. 1/8 min would be double or 72 clicks. That why minits are better than counting clicks.
a minit is always a minit, 1" @100 yds regardless of how many clicks.
On the other hand the exterior micrometer on the lyman is a different animal.
If your scope block spacings are 14. 5" apart center to center you will have 1/8 min adjustments on the dial. If they are half that distance you will have 1/4 min
adjustments. Inything else and you wont know for sure what you have till you shoot and program it.
If all this sounds complicated to you its only because it is. Thats what i meant by my comment about moving on.
Take the cash and run, you will never be sorry.

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Well, we used these scopes for shooting at 1000 yards at the Original 1000 yard benchrest club outside Williamsport PA without any trouble. The FOV has never yet been a problem. And, the matter of scope block spacing and movement per click is covered in this article from my book. If you want a copy of the article with pics, just ask.
8.3.2.1.1 ADJUSTMENTS AND SCOPE BLOCK SPACING

These sights attach to "scope blocks" on the rifle barrel, which are most often 7.2 inches on center.

Here is a picture of the adjusting knobs on a Lyman Super Targetspot telescopic sight.
The adjusting knobs are threaded 40 threads per inch.
One revolution of the knob is then .025"
Knobs are marked in 25 divisions, so there is .001" of movement per division.
There is a click at each division and between each division, so there is .0005" per click.
There are 50 clicks per revolution of the knob.




Scope block spacing determines how much the crosshairs move on the target.
Let the target be 100 yards away.
Let the scope block spacing be one fifth of a yard or 7.2"
The ratio of movement is then one fifth to one hundred or one to five hundred. Each click moves the telescope one-half of one thousandth of an inch, .0005". Each click at 7.2" scope block spacing moves the crosshairs .0005" time 500 = .25". One click moves the crosshairs a quarter of an inch at 100 yards.

Sometimes scope blocks are mounted on centers other than 7.2 inches, and bullet movement at 100 yards varies as shown below:

Scope Block Centers 100 Yard Movement per Click
2.4 inch .75 inch
3.0 " .60 "
3.6 " .50 "
4.5 " .40 "
6.0 " .30 "
7.2 " .25 "
9.0 " .20 "
12 " .15 "


The geometry is pretty simple, ask if you want more on that.