Horizontal grouping ?

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11-09-2009, 06:30 PM
tropicmaster

Horizontal grouping ?

I have noticed something with my just built Savage that hopefully someone can comment on. When I shoot at 100 yards the groups are pretty much round, and although not as tight as I would like, they are hovering around 5/8" with factory ammo. But when I move out to 200 yards or more the groups take on a distinct horizontal aspect. They are still pretty tight, but have a definite horizontal dispersion. Any ideas on this? Is it something I will overcome as I get more experienced, or is possibly something with the rifle/scope?

[img width=600 height=400]http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt184/tropicmaster/DSC03071.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=400]http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt184/tropicmaster/DSC03070.jpg[/img]
11-09-2009, 06:34 PM
tropicmaster

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

Here is an average 100 yard group to compare

[img width=600 height=400]http://i610.photobucket.com/albums/tt184/tropicmaster/DSC03038.jpg[/img]
11-09-2009, 06:45 PM
Hunter5280

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

It could be from your trigger pull.
11-09-2009, 06:53 PM
JCalhoun

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

Yep, either trigger control or pulse.

Or maybe a crosswind?
11-09-2009, 06:56 PM
pdog06

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

I was always told that Horizontal stringing could be loose scope mounts, wind, trigger pull issues(flinching, heartbeat, etc), or even just a scope reticle(if reticles too thick you could just not have the poa in the same exact place at longer ranges). Could also be a rest issue. Make sure the gun is situated so it will not "rock" in the rest.

I'm guessing it is trigger control also though. Practice,practice,practice ;) Happens to me too if I dont shoot for a while
11-09-2009, 07:16 PM
tropicmaster

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

The trigger is set so low that a couple of times the rifle has fired when I closed the bolt. I bought this action from a board member, and that is the way I got it. 95% or more of the time when the rifle fires I am quite suprised by it. I am thinking you might be right on the sight picture. Once I read these replies I realised that I rarely have anything " locked in " in the scope when I fire. I mean I am looking at the crosshair, and have it aligned with the center of the target, but I dont have a specific " point to point " match if you know what I mean. I have spent so much time at competition sporting clays where all you do is look at the target and shoot, that I guess it is carrying over a bit. In sporting clays if you look at your sight it is 100% for sure a miss, so maybe I am subconsciously " pulling off" the reticle.
11-09-2009, 07:29 PM
laportecharlie

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

The very first thing to do is get that trigger adjusted! You just can't be shooting a gun that will go off when you close the bolt. Is it a factory trigger or after market?
Charlie
11-09-2009, 08:29 PM
Eric in NC

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by laportecharlie

The very first thing to do is get that trigger adjusted! You just can't be shooting a gun that will go off when you close the bolt. Is it a factory trigger or after market?
Charlie

+1 - and round groups at 100 yards and horiz. strings at longer ranges would make me think: Wind, parallax, or possibly trigger/bag technique.
11-09-2009, 09:32 PM
tropicmaster

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by laportecharlie

The very first thing to do is get that trigger adjusted! You just can't be shooting a gun that will go off when you close the bolt. Is it a factory trigger or after market?
Charlie

It is an aftermarket, and according to the guy I bought the action from, the best one for Savages. I cant remember what he told me... maybe basix, but I am not positive. It is unbelievably clean- talk about no creep. I have not a clue how to adjust it, but it has really only done it a couple of times. By the time my LVT stock for this gun gets here it will be winter and the .223 I am working on will be done, so I plan on sending this one to SSS, and I will get him to adjust it while it is there. This is the action that is missing the ejector that I posted about a week or two ago.
11-09-2009, 09:51 PM
pdog06

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

If you send me a pic of the trigger(preferrably with the stock off) I can send you directions on how-to adjust it. I have the directions for both the Basix Sav-2 and the SSS triggers. If it is the "best one for a Savage" it should be one of these two.

Atleast if you get it adjusted you can shoot it safely till you get it to Fred for the T&T job.
11-10-2009, 01:09 AM
aorelup

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

You may want to ensure you are properly focusing your scope when shooting out at 200 yards.

The target may look clear, but it if isn't precisely focused you may be experiencing parallax - just wiggle your head around a little bit and if the cross hair moves relative to the target, you need to focus.
11-10-2009, 12:07 PM
BobT

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

I would guess from the looks of the group that it is either parallax, cant or wind. It could be a combination of all of them but in any case it is still a nice group especially with factory ammo! If I'm shooting rifles with typical sporter style stocks I use a bipod rather than my front rest. I have problems with canting the rifle on the rest os the bipod will give me the best groups.

Bob
11-10-2009, 12:59 PM
RKG

Re: Horizontal grouping ?

If we assume we are looking for a factor that is range dependent, I'd vote with those who specify wind (the effect of which is non-linear) and paralax (which is an adjustment that is range dependent, at least up to the infinity setting).