Axis II in .223 always cratering primers, should I worry?

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07-07-2021, 04:15 PM
71GTO

Axis II in .223 always cratering primers, should I worry?

I have had my Axis II in .223 for a few months and have put about 2-300 rounds through it. Beginning with the first round through the rifle it has always cratered the primers. At first I thought it was because of my reloads were using CCI-400 primers and from what I have read, the majority of .223 Axis owners have commented that the CCI-400 is too thin. BTW the cratering was happening with a start load, middle load or close to max load. It didn't matter. Luckily I was able to purchase some CCI BR-4. CCI-450, CCI-#41 and Remington 7 1/2 primers to test. I tested a bunch of Lapua brass with different loads of Varget and a combination of all the listed primers. Same result, every single round was cratered! Okay so for the last resort I figured that I would break down and buy some factory 223 to test to eliminate my reloads as the issue. I tested 5- different brands with speeds between 2650- 3050 FPS and low and behold every primer was also cratered.

My question to all you knowledgeable shooters' is whether or not I need to worry about this or is it an inherent problem with the .223 Axis II and I should just live with it? Oh and I should add that the rifle is very accurate at 100-300 yards and has never actually blanked or pierced a primer. All my brass is Lapua that only gets shot through this rifle and the shoulder only gets bumped .002". I know for a fact that the head space is good also.

Thanks in advance for any help, comments, etc.. Tom
07-07-2021, 04:47 PM
celltech

Both my Savage Axis and 12FV crater .223 primers...as long as they are not blowing out I would not worry about it. Some hand loaders who go for the limits will bush the firing pin to stop it...
07-07-2021, 05:23 PM
Robinhood

Even many of the Bighorn TL3's have this problem. The reason the Bighorns do is because the firing pin radius goes below the face of the firing pin hole. Sometimes on some rifles the firing pin hole is too large. I think it is the radius more than anything. I agree with Celltech that you can bush and even reduce the firing pin diameter, or you can shoot until it fails if ever.

One should not continue to shoot once you have a primer pierced.
07-07-2021, 06:24 PM
charlie b

Mine has cratered primers since new. Factory loads. Mild reloads. Hot reloads. CCI SR, Rem SR BR, CCI SRM primers. All about the same. There is no sign of flattening. No piercing. Almost 4000rnds later and it still does it. About the same shape crater as when new.

Primer 'signs' are deceiving. They may or may not mean something about pressures. Pierced primers mean something is wrong. Too hot a load, bad firing pin, oversize firing pin hole.
07-07-2021, 09:59 PM
243winxb

No worry.

My Axis 223 does it more with CCI 400s, then CCI 450 or Rem 7 1/2 .

Never a pierced primer after 2700+ fired. Rem 7 1/2 showed the least flow.
07-13-2021, 03:30 AM
tomme boy

Mine was blanking primers from the get go. Sent the barreled action back to savage and they replaced the bolt head and the firing pin and springs. Has not done it since but I get no primer strikes every once in a while. Pin drops but no contact with the primer. Kind of like the accu trigger that is set off without using the safety blade in the trigger. But it is not a accu trigger. Just the regular trigger.
07-13-2021, 05:25 PM
Robinhood

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomme boy

Mine was blanking primers from the get go. Sent the barreled action back to savage and they replaced the bolt head and the firing pin and springs. Has not done it since but I get no primer strikes every once in a while. Pin drops but no contact with the primer. Kind of like the accu trigger that is set off without using the safety blade in the trigger. But it is not a accu trigger. Just the regular trigger.

The first thing I would check would be the trigger over travel and maybe even work with the safety adjustment simultaneously. If the trigger moves freely and the seer has clearance on top of the trigger when fired your bolt either has some gunk in it or something is stopping or slowing the firing pin.
07-18-2021, 12:16 AM
tomme boy

Took the bolt apart 2x already thinking something was in the pin channel. But nothing. Was out a couple days ago it did it again. Took bolt out of gun. No hit on the primer. Flipped the black round pin to drop the pin. Pin was sticking out the head like it should be. Also I am now getting what looks like a deep hit on the primer but it is not setting the primer off. You can cock it and fire it multiple times but the round will not go off. But I can put that same round in my ar15 and it goes off. I am thinking the protrusion is not far enough.
07-18-2021, 01:12 AM
wbm

The light strike problem is getting more pronounced with Axis rifles the longer they are in use. Every firearms related forum I visit has at least one post about Axis...failure to fire and light primer strikes. I for one am convinced that the majority of those are related to the "two-spring with a washer in the middle" setup. I along with a few others fixed the problem and it has not returned
08-02-2021, 05:38 PM
nathantc

i just put together an axis 2 in 7.62x39 and even on wolf ammo it punches deep into the primer. Never pierces. But even my 110 FCP in 300 PRC does this. Definitely not light striking but very deep impact. Photos do not do it justice.
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/z2lfxp.jpg
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/01hthz.jpg
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/ep6l7j.jpg
https://imgdump5.novarata.net/o0jh9m.jpg
08-26-2021, 10:41 AM
Rivethead

Like you, I had this light strike issue several years ago with all ammo, factory or reloads, but was also getting severe craters, blanking and top-hats. I started a thread back then...
https://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?33607-Converting-new-style-FP-to-previous-style

but it took a while and I lost track of which board I ended up posting the results....

After converting my bolt to the old style firing pin with spring up front, I haven't had any primer issues no matter what loads I use (except the slight crater formed due to FP hole being larger than FP). Here are a couple pics I located...

(ETA- Pasted images are not showing up...)
Old style vs New style FP
http://www.savageshooters.com/image/...1uiTrsl1QI/9k=

Typical Top Hat I was getting
http://www.savageshooters.com/image/...7HYIQgpjP/2Q==

Typical blanking I was getting
http://www.savageshooters.com/image/...AEM7JJJLBP/9k=

I had a couple problems with getting this conversion completed... First I had to order some parts from Savage (cocking piece sleeve and maybe a couple others at the back of the bolt) and at that time, to get a list of part numbers you had to enter your serial number into their part's system... which then only listed the parts for your gun... makes it hard to switch to a different style, so I had to try different serial numbers to find something that matched the caliber and style I was looking for.

The other problem was getting someone at Savage to ship what I wanted... S/N getting in the way again...
I was lucky to talk to one of their older gunsmiths who understood what I was trying to do. He looked thru their parts bins... and indicated that it was hard to find the old style parts for the Axis model, but he was able to locate some in stainless - I took them and reassembled my bolt.

At the range the first time shooting the new setup, I threw a Kevlar flak vest over the action for the first several shots... all went well, and I have been shooting my reloads, oem 223 and 5.56 milsurp in the gun ever since without any primer issues.

As a disclaimer, I am only relating my experience for information only. I don't recommend this modification to anyone and any mods elected to be tried, should be done by a competent gunsmith.
08-26-2021, 10:49 AM
nathantc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rivethead

Like you, I had this issue several years ago with all ammo, factory or reloads, but was also getting blanking and top-hats. I started a thread back then...
https://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?33607-Converting-new-style-FP-to-previous-style

but it took a while and I lost track of which board I ended up posting the results....
After converting my bolt back to the old style firing pin with spring up front, I haven't had any primer issues no matter what loads I use (except the slight crater formed due to FP hole being larger than FP). Here are a couple pics I located...

(ETA- Images are not showing up...)
Old style vs New style FP
http://www.savageshooters.com/image/...1uiTrsl1QI/9k=

Typical Top Hat I was getting
http://www.savageshooters.com/image/...7HYIQgpjP/2Q==

Typical blanking I was getting
http://www.savageshooters.com/image/...AEM7JJJLBP/9k=

I had a couple problems with getting this conversion completed... First I had to order some parts from Savage (cocking piece sleeve and a couple others) and at that time, to get a list of part numbers you had to enter your serial number into their part's system... which then only listed the parts for your gun... makes it hard to switch to a different style, so I had to try different serial numbers to find something that matched the style I was looking for.

The other problem was getting someone at Savage to ship you what I wanted... S/N getting in the way again...
I was lucky to talk to one of their older gunsmiths who understood what I was trying to do. He looked thru their parts bins... and indicated that it was hard to find the old style parts for the Axis model, but he was able to locate a some stainless parts - I took them and reassembled my bolt.

At the range the first time shooting the new setup, I threw a Kevlar flak vest over the action for the first several shots... all went well, and I have been shooting 5.56 milsurp in the gun ever since without any primer issues.

As a disclaimer, I am only relating my experience for information only. I don't recommend this modification to anyone and any mods elected to be tried, should be done by a competent gunsmith.

i later (after my last comment) learned i have an axis with the older style pin, so that is most likely the reason i have no issues at all with 7.62x39. That being said, for those with a savage axis, maybe my serial number would help as far as buying what you need to convert back to the older (honestly better) style.

photo is not my own but for reference to show others the difference.

https://imgdump5.novarata.net/53c3n4.jpg
09-16-2021, 08:47 PM
tomme boy

I fixed mine. I took the pin out and faced off the front shoulder on my lathe. Just enough to clean up the terrible machining on the face. Then polished the pin from the flat shoulder to the tip with some oil and 2500 grit sand paper. Now it is as smooth as glass.