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What's the easiest/cheapest way to get into SS pins cleaning? I have a Lyman vibratory and am fed up with the media/cat litter/whatever. Plus if it cleans the primer pockets, that's a bonus. Are the pins easy to clean and last long? I'd be cleaning anything from 380 auto to 45 Auto and M1 Carbine to 7.62 NATO, 220 Swift and 300 Savage but not huge amounts. I'm even willing to make my own tumbler with old dry wall buckets if that's an option.
I just bought the Frankford Arsenal kit, came with pins and all. I have done some experimenting with it, the brass actually comes out more polished looking without the pins, but the primer pockets and insides of the case don't get cleaned as well. So now I just use a drop or 2
of dish soap with the pins, no fancy cleaners or polish, and rinse the brass really well.
Mike
Youtube will show you some HF options for SS pin cleaning, I have the Frankfort SS tumbler as well, works good. Getting the pins out and tracking down the strays are a pain to some extent but the cases are really clean. I use dawn soap, lemishine and water for 2-3 hrs depending on the # of cases. The pins will beat on the leading edge of the case neck if you tumble them too long. Get the magnet for easy effort in tracking down those stray pins.
I was thinking about making my own since I can probably source all the parts nearly free, but for $170 including everything, that's not bad. I usually see them over $200 and up. How does that Frankford one appear to hold up? Will it last? It's not like I'm cleaning 500 every day. I may go through that much brass in a year, I'm not a heavy shooter. Kinda winding down at my age anyhow.
I've had mine for about 5 months, used it about 5 times, with 2 loads of about 350 223 cases in one afternoon. It seems well built, the tub or barrel is pretty sturdy as is the motor. From what I've read, the rubber gasket seals are usually the first thing to go but shouldn't be too hard to replace. Extra barrels are available but can't remember where I saw 'em. FA says the tub will hold 1000 223 cases but I would not run that many at a time, I do 300-400 just 'cause.
The cheapest is a Harbor Freight rock tumbler https://www.harborfreight.com/dual-d...ler-67632.html .
About $40. You can go online and get a coupon for 20% off too. If you want to tumble more brass they make a double unit for $49.
Then go online and buy SS pins or go to Sleeping Giant https://sleepinggiantbrass.com/STAIN...%20MEDIA%201lb
and get their SS chips and not have to deal with pins lodging sideways in the necks as you try to empty them. I made this change and am so glad I did.
Not sure about the 3 lb capacity? Yeah, I've been reading a lot about different media stuff. Midway is selling stuff now that apparently gets stuck in 9mm and similar cases because the pins are 9mm long. Of course it's on sale. My biggest loads would be 30 Carbine which I can go through a lot of sometimes, I've got about a ammo box full of it that could be cleaned but I'm in no rush, I've got 1000's of the loaded stuff.
Anyone got the HF tumbler and can comment on it, 3 lbs is not much if that's for real? Thanks for that link to sleepinggiant, that sounds like the cat's meow. I need to go down to Home depot and see what kind of containers they have. I've got the motor and associated parts to easily make the mechanics of the tumbler. It's just the fabrication and making it work as desired that's the issue, but I may be willing to try, I have all the time in the world and the rest of the winter to work on it. I'm sure fed up with the vibratory one and trying to either spend money on the media or clean it which is a nightmare, plus the brass is not that clean after hours of noise.
I have the duel drum HF rock tumbler and it works just fine. HF is just fine for the guy that uses it once a month. I use the pins and have a fine kitchen strainer to seperate pins and brass. I will look at the chips when my pins disappear.
Bill
I;s had a Frankford Arsenal steel pin tumbler set for several years and added the magnet to the package when I bought it (a good idea when you have to pick up steel pins).
My media tumbler crapped out after 23,000 cases and I am now up to over 44,000 hand loads.
A spritz of Dawn dishwashing detergent and a bit of Lemi-shine Appliance Cleaner with water for about an hour will yield shiny brass with the inside and primer pockets clean.
Stainless steel pins don't need cleaning and they don't rust (at least they haven't rusted yet).
I have cleaned over 20,000 cases in both rifle and pistol calibers with it and wouldn't go back to using a media tumbler.
I have a older STM high speed tumbler that were originally used as rock tumblers and it cleans very well. "BUT" the downside is if you tumble too long you will peen the case mouths. Then you will need to trim the cases and deburr again after tumbling.
Below on the left is a case left in the tumbler too long, I fell asleep and the cases tumbled over six houres. :frusty:
And the case on the right is brand new and right out of the bag fresh from the factory.
https://i.imgur.com/CIxnlIW.jpg
The amount of soap and Lemishine can vary depending on how hard your water is. So just follow the directions of the tumbler and disregard other suggestions on the type soap and time. Its your water and it can vary greatly between city and well water in hardness and minerals.
I check the tumbler and brass after one hour and see if more time is needed. My tumbler tells me to check it after two hours of run time but this may cause case mouth peening.
I also use my Lyman Turbo Tumbler with lizard litter and let it run all night without any worries. But even the media tumblers to remove the pins or walnut media can peen the case mouths.
New freshly annealed brass is softer than you think so pay attention to your case mouths and check them with a magnifying glass.
Thanks for all the info. I'll probably order up the HF double one and some of those chips. I know it will be a relief to get away from that cat litter media. I'll use that stuff for filler in my black powder ROA. Should last me at least 100 years. I load it with cat litter and #12 shot for bore bees.
If I were you I would try the Lizard Litter untreated walnut media. The dry tumbling buffers the cases and they do not hit each other with as much force as wet tumbling.
Watch the video below that compares your cat litter to the Reptile bedding/Lizard litter and a some Nu Finish. It just might save you some money and have very good results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hvp0sZgOS4
Hmmm. Someone is always trying to throw a wrench in the act. I don't know, I've not been impressed with the vibratory thing. No matter, the dry medium is either going to have to be cleaned or replaced. One Minus. And it doesn't get the primer pocket or the inside of the case. Another minus. Noise and time seem to be another minus. Only plus is I've got the Lyman vibratory thing. Think I'll go with the chips.
I have been vibrating brass with walnut & cob media since the 70's. I got a Franklin SS pin setup 2 years ago. After using it I will never ever vibrate again. I've read all the reports about brass being to clean, work hardened, and whatever. Been working fine for the couple thousand rounds I've cleaned. I do everything from .380 to .375HH.
I haven't been reloading nearly that long, but 2 years ago I got a Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler and it really does a great job with the really old crusty stuff. I use a universal decapper and then I use the wet /SS Pins for about an hour and 15 minutes then I anneal, then size, chamfer, and debur. After that I use a regular Hornady tumbler with corn cob media to get all of the oil and metal shavings off. I really like doing it that way, because with the final corn cob tumbling, I am ready to prime and load without having to let it dry. It just seems to me like the most logical and it is super easy!Quote:
Originally Posted by flowj
What's the easiest/cheapest way to get into SS pins cleaning?
The least expensive way is to do it like my older brother did, borrow your younger brothers Thumblers Tumbler, and Dillon Press. The only costs are pins, soap, and your little brother bi*ching about getting his stuff back.
You guys have me interested in pin cleaning. I'm growing tired of the issues and limitations of vibratory cleaning as well. I usually clean 50-200 223 cases at a time. Will the Frankford Arsenal kit do a good job with small batches? How much pin mass should you use with a smaller batch of 50? Do you use less water?
I was also looking at the Lyman Turbo Tumbler. Any comments or experience with this unit?
Of course, the HF tumbler is a good option too but some of the online customer reviews give me pause.
If you shoot 100 rounds a week the Harbor Frieght will work well enough and you don't get the peening that comes with larger diameter drums. The larger diameter drums will have gold dust in the solution and fold the mouths inward.
With media tumbling, you should wash your brass before putting it in a die.
My BIG Thumblers Tumbler and SS pins with a little dish soap gets the job done. I've found that you can clean "too much" with the SS pins and end up with gold dust in the water. Best to not use them all the time. Maybe once every third or fourth time? Maybe not even that often. It WILL get the primer pockets clean.
One thing about stuck pins? Just another chance to inspect your brass for defects BEFORE you prime or add the powder charge.
Untreated corn cobb will clean just about any case.:cool:
I use the Franklin setup as well. Use the magnet to remove the steel pins and place the wet brass on one pizza pan and the pins on another in the oven for 30 minutes on 150 degrees or the oven's lowest settings. A couple things to remember: If you use lemishine, make sure you rinse the brass when you empty it out of your tumbler with tap water, or it will tarnish the brass. If it darkens the brass or you get a rusty color, put some tap water into a bucket just enough to cover the brass and a 9mm shell full of lemishine for 15-20 minutes and stir every few minutes. Rinse with tap water and the brass will be shiny new. Small rifle brass will hold pins, bb's, steel bits etc., I use a fine mesh strainer to bounce the brass around and it usually gets the left over pins etc. out. I have tried all the usual methods to clean brass in my time reloading and nothing cleans as well in a normal amount of time better than wet tumbling. I have not had the pins beating up the mouths on my brass, but I would think that has to do with the brass to water to pins ratio. I check my brass at the end of an hour and a half, and it usually is done.
My cleaning and annealing system and all my hand loading operations are carried out in the garage where I have access to good lighting and ventilations, compressed air, and a hot box for drying operations. I don't shoot competitively, but I do strive to shoot small groups consistently.
I don't anneal before every load cycle. I go about 4X before annealing, depending upon feel of the bullet seating into the neck. A good consistent seating pressure is of paramount importance to small group size, so consistent neck tension is the goal. Powder residue/carbon build up in the neck is usually a good thing for bullet seating consistency as well as bullet release during the fire cycle and many shooters don't clean their brass for this reason. However, you can get good consistency with clean necks too. You can polish the inside of the neck with 000 steel wool, dip the neck in a powdered lubricant, reduce neck sizing too, or do nothing but clean and rinse thoroughly. It all depends upon what steps you're willing to take, what equipment you have or want to buy, and in the end, what your barrel seems to prefer.
For the anneal cycle I start by de-capping. I typically will do 2 to 3 of my 100 round boxes but have done as many as 500 rounds at a time. I keep all brass segregated by box/batch/lot as I go through the cycles. So after de-capping all the brass, I set up my salt bath annealing station near the roll up door which I open for ventilation.
After annealing each case, I drop it into a bucket of water to rinse off any remaining salt. Once I've gone through the box/batch I start the wet tumbling operations using SS chips, Lemi-Shine and soap. Car wash soap with wax seems to make the shine last longer. NOTE: this will remove the nice annealing coloration so if keeping that is a goal, change the operation sequence accordingly. Newly tumbled brass will not develop the nice color like old, oxidized brass does, so expect that and don't time your annealing cycle strictly to visual clues. Use a timer or metronome.
Once the brass is clean and rinsed, I use a shot of compressed air to clear out residual water and dump them into a cardboard box with a hair dryer stuffed into the side to blow hot air into the box. I can get the brass up to 170* F this way. Don't ever put the hairdryer inside the box, it will melt, and don't forget to provide an exit port either.
To polish the inside surface of the case neck, wrap 000 or 0000 steel wool around an undersized bronze brush and spin it inside the case neck for a few seconds.
After annealing and cleaning operations, I check OAL and trim necks if necessary, chamfer and de-burr the chamfer with steel wool if necessary. I keep a 10X-20X loupe on my loading table to inspect chamfer operations. Errors can be made at this stage so I want adequate chamfer without going overboard and producing a sharp knife edged case mouth that will lead to split necks.
At this point, all cases go neck down into my boxes until ready to load, with a sticky note inside indicating date of all operations performed, as well as a reminder to SIZE the cases before installing primers. Good record keeping is a necessity in developing a good shooting load.
NOTE: Some will prefer to size the case before the annealing and cleaning cycle. Some feel that the sized and work hardened brass will change slightly over time just sitting ( I do) and prefer to size just before loading. What ever you decide to do, keep a record of it so you don't waste time dumping powder charges and de-capping live primers. Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt and wore it out.
I hope this answers many questions, and aids you in your loading process.
I'm the odd one out on the process. I tumble with a Thumlers Tumbler on a timer set for 4 hours, very small amount of lemi-shine and dish soap. I don't worry about peening the case mouth because I'm working with bottleneck cartridges and trim them all anyway. I have the pins and wish I had the chips. My pins get stuck in the flash hole on probably 1 in 20 cases. After removing the pins - they are dried in the oven at 200 degrees for 20 minutes, and then I put them in the vibratory cleaner to polish them. Then I pick out the dry media from the primer pocket - easier than the pins. Wet tumbling cleans them, dry vibratory polishes them. If I had it to do over again I'd be looking at the Rebel 7 (I think that's what it's called) for wet tumbling, or if I wanted to fabricate my own I'd mimic the Rebel with pillow block bearings instead of the bushings on the Thumler. I'm certain my Thumler has limited useful life due to the bushings, but the tub is quality and will last a lifetime. I clean 4000-6000 annually - no pistol brass, all bottleneck cartridges.