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I found out while buying an EGW Picitinny rail for my old Savage .308, that there were actually three sizes of actions made-small, medium and large. This rifle appears to have been made in 82 and is in fact a medium action. The mag box measures 3.35 inches inside. Does anybody know how many of these medium actions were made? This is a left-hand 110 CL and I am really thinking about a .260 re-barrel at some point, due to the long mag well.
There is no "medium" action per se, but Savage has changed the action screw spacing several times. Short actions form 88-97 were build in long actions. IF yours was built in 82 then it is likely a gen one short action.
Savage Long Actions
Same bolt spacing since the beginning in 1958 = 5.062”
Savage Short Actions
1st. Gen Short Actions = 4.522" (1959 to 1987, staggered feed magazine)
From 1988-1997 there were no short actions, they chambered short action calibers in long actions.
2nd Gen Short Actions = 4.275" (1998 to 2007, staggered feed magazine)
3rd Gen Short Actions = 4.400" (2005 and up, center-feed magazine, not in photo)
EGW measures the different actions from the two center rail screws. Here are their measurements: short-3.93, medium-4.09, and long-4.63 inches. No doubt that the "medium", is just another version of a short action, but it is a far more useful action, than the standard short. My rifle is an "E" prefix and the numbers say 82. I was just curious how unusual this action is. I am pleased that I ended up with this length of action.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blckwlf
There is no "missing" generation. Those made between 1988 and 97 are definitively long-actions because that's what the screw spacing is.
No need to make the already confusing mess of Savage actions any more confusing than it is.
Doesn't seem confusing to me, seems explain the timeline gap adequately. But to each their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
What you have is a 1st Gen short-action. These are approximately 0.540" shorter than a long action. The 2nd Gen short-actions are approximately 0.850" shorter than a long action, or 0.310" shorter than a 1st Gen short-action.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhooper
Many applications do not care, unless you try to put a one-piece mount on them. Luckily, I talked to EGW, before ordering and got the explanation. I would have ordered a standard short and been pissed when I received it. Interesting. Thanks for the info. One can never quit finding new information.
There's a gap because no short-actions were made during that time. That's the only explanation that's needed. Just because a rifle was built to use a short-action cartridge does not make it a short-action rifle. If I pull the .30-06 barrel off my 111 and screw on a .223 barrel it doesn't magically become a short-action rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blckwlf
Even though they used long-actions, if they were made for sa cartridges, you cannot make it use la-correct? That was a confusing time and they must have been trying to cut corners and just cut one size of action. It seems kind of crazy to me, to make long actions and then tailor them, so that only sa cartridges will fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
Yeah, I think we are on both saying the same thing, we are just interpreting the same thing in a different way.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
You have to remember that this started when Savage was in bankruptcy protection and Ron Coburn took control in 1988. Savage let go of over half their workforce and dropped everything but a few select models that were still profitable - the Model 110, the Model 24, the Model 30 (Stevens Favorite) and the Model 99. The decision to only offer one action length was a cost savings measure as it meant fewer parts to manufacture and inventory. Once Savage was firmly back on it's feet and in the black again they reintroduced a true short action in 1998.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbhooper
I get where you're coming from and can see your logic, but they're still long actions and wouldn't qualify as a "missing generation" of short actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blckwlf
In another two weeks this site will have been up and running for 17 years, and it's taking us most of that time to FINALLY get most everyone on the same page and using the same vocabulary. We still get the occasional new guy passing through who refers to 1st Gen short-actions as J-Series that we have to educate, but for the most part the vast majority have it figured out. So as you can imagine - someone suddenly wanting to inject a "missing generation" into the list of short-actions would just throw a big'ol wrench in the works and create a lot of unnecessary confusion - especially with those who haven't been fully educated on Savage action lengths yet.
I completely understand that as well. I've edited my post... I swear I've heard/read "missing generation" somewhere... can't figure out where I got that from now...Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
Own a superbly accurate Model 110FP in .223 Rem. that was made during the era when Savage did not produce a dedicated short action for short length cartridges. It is extremely reliable in feeding, extracting, and ejecting. The blind magazine simply has a spacer and shorter length follower. If desired, I can change the follower/spacer, barrel and appropriate size bolt head for any cartridge size that will function in the long action. This made a lot of sense for economy, when Savage was having financially hard times.
\Quote:
Originally Posted by reddeluxe
No you can't......the only thing you can change is the magazine for a short action cartridge.(308,243 etc..) The magazine cut in the receiver is for a short magazine. The .223 magazine is narrower for .223 diameter cases and the only one with a spacer, and it's only there to take up excess space. A .223 magazine will not feed .308 size cases.
Hi Sharpshooter. My .223 Rem. Model 110FP, serial # F1033xx (1991 manufacture according to the forum sticky) was built on the standard sized universal length action of that era, before Savage later introduced the short action length Model 10FP. It has the heavy target contour 24 inch barrel, factory early flimsy Choate tupperware stock that I have stiffened, pillar bedded, and free floated; with the factory stagger feed blind internal magazine, with a rear spacer for the mag follower. I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly. Even though the receiver ring spacing will accommodate standard length cartridges, the bottom cutout for the stagger feed blind magazine is sized only for short action length cartridges? That would force me to only use the rifle as a single shot if I wanted to fire standard length calibers, correct? If I wanted to fire standard short action length calibers (.308 family for example), could I do so by replacing the magazine box and the appropriate length follower (no spacer)? Or is the magazine cutout in the receiver also too narrow for any cartridges other than the .223 family? I think this series of rifles was one of Savage's earliest attempts at a police marksman or tactical type setup and I believe they also offered it in standard length calibers back then, like .30-06. When the newer manufactured dedicated short action Model 10FP rifles were introduced they were offered in .223 and .308. Thanks for your information and helping clear this up for me.
Yes, the magazine port will only accept short action magazines. All of the short magazines are the same length, only the .223 has an internal spacer to take up space because it is shorter than a .308 length case. You could change out the magazine to a standard .308 family magazine, but right now the hard part is finding those parts.