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Savage 10T heavy barrel 308.
Need inexpensive $400.00 or under. Would like to think I would get to shoot out to 800 to 1000 yards but in reality will most likely never go past the 500 yard mark.
I have looked at some of the SWFA fixed power scopes online. That leads to my question, would I be better off with a fixed power or variable at the range of possible some day 1000 yards.
Lots of long shots have been made with fix 10x scopes. I started with a fixed the SWFA 10x then moved to the fixed 12x. They were great "static" shooting scopes or for belly matches. As my shooting capabilities grew as well as shooting interests i.e. Competitive shooting/PRS etc. so did my choices and needs to be competitive. It's hard to beat good glass as it just makes for a more enjoyable shooting experience! I move from the SWFA scopes to a Vortex Gen 1 Razor, then the Gen II Razor, and now I'm shooting the new Bushnell XRS2 that was just released. So you can get by just fine with those scopes without issue until you feel they are hindering your capability and goals!
I have both the 10x and 12x fixed power SWFA scopes. They work great and if you plan to hunt a wide open field the 10x has an acceptable field of view. They really are a good scope for the money. That said, if you are using it for hunting as well as target shooting, and are hunting a semi wooded area where there are more shots under 50 yards than over 100.... there are better scopes. If it is just target shooting the turret accuracy is perfect, and I found the 12x is a big advantage over the 10x even with the little increase in magnification.
I have also owned a Cabelas Covenant 6-24 FFP with the MOA reticle. I loved the reticle, but the accuracy of the turrets was lacking. If you like to holdover I found that 1000 yard shots were acceptable, but just not thrilling since dialing is not accurate.... but for hunting I really think it is a good scope, the reticle is fantastic and the FFP makes the holdovers accurate at all magnifications.
I recently got a Burris MTAC 4.5-14, (got it on sale for $299.99) and I really like the plain G2B reticle in MIL, it is not as good as the Cabelas Covenant reticle for holding over since it is MIL and not MOA and the MOA is just better suited to holding over.... Since I just got it and threw it on my 7mm Mag for hunting and took off the SWFA 10X, I have not yet checked the accuracy of dialing the turrets. BUT I do have the zero set and ready to go when spring comes. If the turrets dial correctly, I would take it over the SWFA fixed power... but that is an unknown at this point.
In short the fixed SWFA scopes are tough to beat at the range, since the turret accuracy is PERFECT! BUT the glass is just OK, and if you use it for hunting the fixed power hampers you on up close shots.
PS, I ordered a Bushnell Engage 4-16x44 30mm SFP scope and I am supposed to get it tomorrow. I am pretty excited, but it is a new product and not a lot of reviews on them. The price was right on Experticity.com so I decided to give it a try. Maybe I will be able to give a preliminary review in the next few days.... but I won't shoot anything I mount it to until spring.
The Burris MTAC is a nice scope for even more money. The adjustable objective is kind of tight from my experience but the glass isn't bad. The reticle is a little heavy but not horrible. Underrated scope. The Super Sniper in 16X is great for medium to long range but worthless for hunting. The 10X is a good beginners scope, actually the whole line is the place where many shooters started their long range efforts. That is a testament right there. 400 does not get you a whole lot but an old monarch has some decent glass and the 3200 through the 6500 scopes are tough but the glass is a little rough at high magnification.
I was/am in the same boat. Mine will be a dedicated target gun, the 16x swfa ss was tempting. I ordered an Athlon argos 6-24x50, I hope its good.
My brother's PRS buddy has an Argos. He seems to like it. He doesn't shoot matches with the gun he has it on, but he seems to think it is a good scope in that price range.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlshnngns
For a dedicated target rifle, a fixed 16 might be too much when the barrel gets hot and mirage might be too much of a problem, so the Argos might be a better choice. Let us know how it shoots :)
I live in a very humid very warm climate. The 16 power is not effected as much as something slightly more powerful. ?If you are pumping them out when the flags drop like in Fclass, you will need a mirage shield.
Amount of magnification needed is a very personal thing. Just go to Camp Perry some time during the National's, you'll see guys shooting 1,000 yards with everything from iron sights to 40x scopes depending on class and match type. For a long time I advocated "the more magnification the better," but lately I've been rethinking that and slowly transitioning back to using less and less magnification and even shooting with iron sights much more often. There's a couple reasons for this:
1. More magnification not only increases the size of the target, but it also magnifies your movement and any imperfections in the lenses by the same amount.
2. The whole "Aim small, miss small" philosophy. The more you magnify the target the larger it gets in your view and the less you have to mentally focus on a good steady hold.
3. Learning to shoot well with little to no magnification will make you a better and more consistent shooter when you have the luxury of more magnification.
4. When you can't see your bullet holes or splashes on the target you tend not to over think or over correct after each shot.
Your rifle would qualify in F/TR class, which is most often shot at 600 yds but also out to 1000 yards. The X ring is 3" and that's pretty small; therefore, more scope magnification is often nice.............. REAL nice for us old timers.Quote:
Originally Posted by offtarget
Before I lost my mind and started spending too much money on more powerful scopes, I enjoyed shooting F-Class with a Mueller 8x32x44 scope which costs about $260 or so. I have several of them and they offer real bang for the buck. However, if I were purchasing a reasonably priced scope now, I would seriously consider the new Mueller 40x56 fixed power scope, also priced at $260. It even has a oversized side parallax wheel, which is nice.
As you might imagine, there are better scopes on the market, some costing more than my car. But I don't know of any scopes in the $250-$300 range that offer the quality of the Mueller scopes. I really like mine.
To each his own or course, but I'll say this in rebuttal:Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFurious
1. True, and that's exactly what you want; not the lens imperfections or course, but you want to see how much your hold varies. More magnification helps because typically you're trying to hold on a spot 1/8 MOA or smaller.
2. In precision target shooting nobody focuses on the black part. In F-class for example, the black part is 36" in diameter. Shooters focus on the center of the 3" X ring. You can't do that with a low power scope.
3. I'm not so sure about this. Everyone should learn how to shoot with iron sights, but I don't know anyone shooting mid/long range target matches who practices with iron sights thinking that will improve their scores. Perhaps some folks do so, but I don't know any.
4. Precision shooting is a "thinking" sport. I would say that more errors are made by "under thinking" than "over thinking". Usually when shooting mid/long range targets you can't see your bullet holes, or my old eyes can't see them anyway. That's why we use spotter discs. Knowing precisely where the last shot landed is the key to making the next one land closer to the intended POI. Over correcting is not a good thing, but unless you know where your last shot hit, how can you correct at all? Correcting is what mid/long range shooting is all about and where the rules allow seeing or marking the previous shot, EVERYONE who competes takes advantage of that fact. Thinking about your previous shots is the key to success. Without the mental discipline to focus on what is important a shooter probably won't do well because I guarantee the guys who go home with the gold are the ones keeping track of each and every detail, including where all their shots impact the target. At least that's how they do it where I shoot.
When it comes to scope power, put me in the "more is better" group.
My 10T started with a 16x SWFA scope. Worked great. Moved up to a Burris XTR II 4-20. Awesome scope. When I picked up my 338 FCP, the burris went on it and picked up a vortex. Have shot to 1000 yards with my 10T 308. Nice thing about a bull barrel as it doesn't heat up as fast as fluted barrels. You can't go wrong getting a SWFA until you can afford a real good scope.
You're looking at this with tunnel vision - the point of view solely for your type of shooting, precision competitive shooting. I don't see where the OP made any such designation as his intended use. Yes, for precision competitive shooting, whether it's benchrest or F-Class or whatever, if you're shooting for group or for score the more magnification you have the better. The game demands it. Even so, there's spill plenty of guys shooting High Power with open sights out to 1,000 yards for score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozella
Things get real different real quick when you leave that tiny little sphere of the shooting world. When it comes to practical shooting, whether it's hunting or even a tactical role, more magnification can often be more of a burden than a benefit.
More magnification means a smaller exit pupil which usually means more fickle eye-relief, a smaller eye box, and more eye strain and fatigue. Not good when you'll need to be looking through your glass for longer than a 10 minute relay.
More magnification means a smaller field of view which can be a huge negative in a lot of situations.
More magnification means mirage is going to be more of an issue.
Higher magnification costs more. For the same or less money you can get a lower magnification scope that has better glass that in the end will help you shoot better because you'll be able to see your target more clearly.
The problem is there's this attitude (a uniquely American attitude) that more is always better. We don't need 4,000+ sq-ft homes, but we want them because clearly bigger is better. We don't need a 600+ HP supercharged engine in our Camaro or Mustang to do the speed limit, but we want one because more power is clearly better. Most suburban housewives have no need or use for a Chevy Suburban, but they want one because bigger is clearly better. Pamela Anderson didn't need to get a boob job, but...well, you get the point. :eyebrows:
I've tried a bunch and for your budget and use try the Mueller 6 x25 or the 8 x 32 for $260 you just can't go wrong with either. And yes I have used them and still have them on rifles but my BR rifles tote T36 or leupold 45.
I am sending you a pm with a link to a great scope just a touch out of your price range. You should move on it.
For your price range, I am squarely in the SWFA camp... 10x42 SS can't be beat for the money. Fixed power means fewer lenses of better quality giving much better image, less moving parts to go wrong, it has excellent tracking mechanics, and 50cal rated. If you youtube search this scope, I don't think there's a bad review out there... I've heard/seen many $2000+ scopes that have had to go back to the factory due to failing tracking tests, yet I don't think I've heard of a single SS having to go back.
Send one my way as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
I've had the 16X SS for 7 years now. It's a great bargain, for sure. Never heard of Athlon until 5 months ago when I bought a used rifle that had an Argos BTR 6-24x50. I was very pleasantly surprised at the quality/value. Ended up getting another Argos after seeing how well it compared with my Burris XTR II 5-25x50. For my latest build, I wanted to get something really special during Black Friday. My research led back to Athlon to their top of the line Cronus BTR 4.9-29x56, made in Japan by Light Optic Works (lens maker and assembler to the finest scope brands in the world). You will be quite pleased with the Argos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlshnngns