Model 12 Palma Bolt Will Not Pull Back in Safety Mid-Position with Live Round Chambered

Purchased June 2016.
Trigger still at factory settings.
Mounted Weaver 431T 48338 one-piece rail mount, two shorter screws in front, bolt fully clears.
Completed most of Savage recommended barrel break-in process ... 1x10 and then 3x5 shot sets.
Cleaned in between sets with Bore Tech Eliminator and 30cal bronze brush on a carbon fiber ball bearing rotating rod.
Fired 100 rounds so far of Hornady A-MAX .308 Win 155gr 8095PM, same cartridge used for Savage factory targeting evaluation, during two range sessions.

With no round chambered, bolt and trigger actions are as expected in safety safe, mid, and safety off positions.
Initially with live round chambered, bolt will pull back with safety in mid-position and properly ejects the live round.
After firing, bolt will pull back and properly ejects empty casing.
At some point after firing several rounds, bolt will NOT pull back with live round chambered and safety in mid or any other position.
Followed owner manual page 5 mid-position process and received same result: bolt will NOT pull back with live round chambered.
This leaves firing as the only option to clear the live round ... undesirable and unsafe.

Called Savage and they said ship it back to the factory for their gunsmith to inspect.
Will try it again during one more range session in a few days before shipping it back to Savage.

Comments or suggestions?

the neck section of action for a carbon ring. 4/0 wool and plenty of oil will remove it.

Sorry it didn't print "Check"

When you are able to extract a live round are there marks on the bullet?

Maybe a simple safety adj.

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Originally Posted by drybean

Maybe a simple safety adj.

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Does the accutriger have that adjustment?

Sure does, it is the adj. screw in front of the trigger spring
the adj. hole may be filled with plastic

Then a 1/16th or 1/8th turn out should do it. Its been so long since I played with an Accutrigger I could not remember.

Guys it is a simple primary extraction issue. I have had it happen and after removing the round it would feed and extract the next one fine. Think it has to do with right on the edge of not working and when it gets a round with the rim 1 or 2 thousandths thinner it just won't extract it. Plenty of info on all the different fixes if you do a search for "primary extraction"

It is not the safety.

Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

When you are able to extract a live round are there marks on the bullet?

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Will look for that on Sunday at the range. Can't take the chance elsewhere of stuck bolt with live round chambered. Why is this important?

Thanks guys. Arky223 graciously called and we talked about the carbon ring thing. Also talked with ex-Marine AR friend about this last night. Now we are both thinking casing thermal expansion due to barrel heat buildup in a new gun with close tolerances. Will check for a carbon ring, watch for primary extraction or lack thereof, and also try to data-log barrel temperatures and correlate with shots and stuck bolt problem start. More later. Additional suggestions welcome.

Went to the range one last time and shot 40 rounds Hornady A-MAX 155gr and then 60 rounds Hornady TAP FPD 155gr. First live round cycled properly in mid-safety position ... bolt rotated, moved back, ejected unfired round. For third live round chambered, bolt would rotate but not move back or eject in mid-safety position. Most rounds also did not cycle properly in mid-safety position, but some did cycle properly randomly. If they did cycle, live rounds also cycled rotate/back/eject in the full fire safety position ... very dangerous. All empty casings ejected properly after firing. Barrel temp did not exceed 125F and first non-cycle occurred with only two rounds fired, so it is not a temperature issue. Can't tell if there is a carbon ring or not. Primary extraction cam action seemed to work. Looks more like a safety/bolt manufacturing/mechanical issue to me. Will send it back to Savage and see what they say. Very disappointing.

Did you clean the chamber specifically with a chamber brush?

I had similar problems, keeping it clean stopped it.

I could not see any build up but it stopped. Two guns doing that, same caliber and powder so it may be getting a bit dirtier. Running 75 rounds a shooting session through it, sometimes more.

RC20, If your chamber is getting dirty when using you reloads there is a problem. If the neck does not seal to the chamber your necks are hard and need to be annealed or your loads may be too light.

I have been a bit surprised. Loads are above minimum by at least a grain or two and most more.

Brass is new with 5 rounds fired, occurred at 3 or 4 initially. It has been annealed after the 5th cycle. I run it all through each time so keep close track.

It occurred in both barrels (hesitate to use guns as the barrels can move, the XC is temporarily on the 111 while it await the Shilen 06 bull.

Not used to cleaning chambers but that has worked. Previous was mil surplus and those are generous.

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Originally Posted by RC20

Did you clean the chamber specifically with a chamber brush?
I had similar problems, keeping it clean stopped it.
I could not see any build up but it stopped. Two guns doing that, same caliber and powder so it may be getting a bit dirtier. Running 75 rounds a shooting session through it, sometimes more.

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Using only commercially-manufactured new cartridges, not reloads. Not using a chamber brush because they seem to be for AR platforms. And because the chamber bristles are stainless steel ... not sure I want to use a stainless steel brush in a stainless steel barrel.

I have to admit I flubbed on the stainless steel bristles, did not pay attention and its a more than valid point. Egg on my face and you are right.

That said, I don't know its my reloads and not carbon building up in the chamber regardless. Same thing when I was shooting the 06 barrel before I took it off and those were mid power loads.

I would amend that to clean the chamber with a chamber mop using a good carbon cleaner. I am currently using the Carbon Killer 2000, there are some other modern cleared out there that are non toxic and work similarly.

Lets go back and visit primary extraction. When are at the range and you have a problem with removing the case from the chamber, place a feeler gauge between the action and the rear baffle. Start .010 and work your way up by .002. Here is a video, but in my opinion the guy puts the feeler gauge in the wrong place. He places it between the baffle and the bolt handle. See if this does anything to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-1ddHYW6wA

I will have to take the feeler gauges with me on the next range trip. Its mostly gone away since I started cleaning the chamber but be an interesting test.

I don't see how you would insert the feelers between the receiver and rear baffle, I will play with mine when I get home and see

Sent the Palma rifle to Savage the first time and they "polished the chamber", fired 5 rounds, found no problem, and sent it back to me. I took it back to the range and had the same problem ... bolt will rotate up but not pull back and eject a live round ... within 40 rounds of Hornady 155gr TAP FPD 308 factory cartridges. Sent it back to Savage AGAIN and they are giving me the same response ... "polished the chamber," it works okay for them, and it meets their specs. I've seen posts from zilla and GunsBrokeMe in this forum describing the same issue, so it IS a problem and not just my gun. This is nuts.

How long are your Hand loads? What weight bullet? Have you used a Stony Point gauge for base to ogive?

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Originally Posted by Savage12Palma308Guy

Sent the Palma rifle to Savage the first time and they "polished the chamber", fired 5 rounds, found no problem, and sent it back to me. I took it back to the range and had the same problem ... bolt will rotate up but not pull back and eject a live round ... within 40 rounds of Hornady 155gr TAP FPD 308 factory cartridges. Sent it back to Savage AGAIN and they are giving me the same response ... "polished the chamber," it works okay for them, and it meets their specs. I've seen posts from zilla and GunsBrokeMe in this forum describing the same issue, so it IS a problem and not just my gun. This is nuts.

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Did you ever try the feeler gauge test to check the primary extraction? What you just described sounds EXACTLY like a typical PE issue.