which die and press

Greeting my fellow nuts,
I am shooting 223 (paper) now and shoot 30-06 for my hunts, I am want to shoot 6 br and 243, I checked the prices on factory loads and ouch,
So I broke down and bought the rcbs rockchucker kit,
I need reload hunting loads in:
30-06
6.5x55
9.3x62
9.3x74
9.3x64 (if I can get my smith to chamber me one)

for paper
223
243
6mm br
30-06 (garand)
my question which dies should I buy for hunt loads and paper?
Which dies do you use for above?

also, should I get multiple single stage presses? too many options, it is hurting my tigger finger!

You will get a lot of answers telling you that this or that is best but the long and short of it is you can get cheap and good (Lee) or you can get very expensive and very good (more than one brand). It all boils down to what trips your trigger and what you can afford. The Lee factory crimp die will work very well for your garand. It seems to be a more consistent and forgiving crimp than the standard roll crimp built into most seating dies when set up properly. Looking at the calibers listed i would go Lee (if available) for hunting and if paper is competition i would look at some of the higher end seating dies but would not rule out the Lee dies for neck sizing only. The garand you are going to have to full length resize each time.

Standard RCBS two die sets for the one press and be done with it. Why spend the extra $$$ when there is no need.Use the money for components.

My personal preference for "most" dies is LEE, especially they crimp dies.

As for a press/presses... what do you want to accomplish?

If shooting high volumes of cartridges, nothing beats a progressive - I am partial to the Dillon 650 and the Hornady Lock N' Load.

If shooting lower volume but you want to increase your consistency of cartridges, then a semiprogressive or turret press is what I would recommend - Dillon 550 is what I use but I also really like the Redding T-7 turret.

The T-7 would probably be cheaper in the long run - you can buy the press ($274.99 @ MidwayUSA) and five or six spare turrets ($66.99 ea @ MidwayUSA), set -up each turret for a specific caliber, set-up your dies one time and never have to touch them again unless you change components.

The Dillon 550 is going to run you $440 and the caliber conversions & toolheads with powder dies will run about $45 and $35 respectively. Caliber conversions are necessary for each family of cartridges (this is basically your shell holder) and tool heads will be required for each cartridge.

I have a 550 set up for .38 Special right now (Cowboy Action Shooting for three people goes through a lot of ammo) and was just about to but a T-7 for my rifle stuff. I got lucky and came across someone with a used 550, three extra caliber conversions, and four toolheads (complete with dies) for almost every caliber I currently shoot. I'll be able to pick all of this up for $550 - so if you look around you may get lucky.

If you don't want to spend that much money, I will also recommend the LEE turret press. The three-hole press with manual index is $72.99 and the Classic four-hole press with manual index is $109.99. Spare four-hole turrets are $11.99.

I prefer maual index so that I can control each stage of the process. If I mess up or the machine does it's alot easier for me to catch it if I'm not just pulling the lever like a slot machine.

I have used Redding dies for my .223and 6.5 x 55. I use RCBS competition dies for my .308. The brand of die really doesn't make a difference to me when it comes to hunting or target loads. I have not had any issues with either brand. You can't go wrong with either brand. You can't go wrong with the Rock Chucker Supreme press! I have the same press and will never think about replacing it!

You will get as many different opinions as people you ask. Some folks (me included) get rather polarized either for or against certain brands, be it reloading, vehicles, guns, computers, beer, you name it.

Setting all that aside for a minute, I have to say that it is completely unnecessary, and bordering on foolish to crimp bottleneck rifle cartridges. If you "need" a crimp, you are "fixing" some other problem that should be fixed with proper dimensions or set up of your dies. Specifically, if you don't introduce the problem with your sizing die, you won't have to fix it with your crimp die. More to the OP's point, I had 3 M-1 Garands, and loaded them for *years*, many thousands of rounds, without some foolish crimp die. Even mentioning "crimping" of the OP's ammo borders on the irresponsible in my opinion. A band aid solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. There's just no reason to go down that road in the first place.

Your new rockchucker press will be bomb proof. I'm still using mine from the mid 70's and it still works perfectly. I also have an RCBS Ammomaster press (big single stage) for my long cartridges, and a Dillon 450 press I bought in 1981.

For hunting loads, I normally use standard FL die sets. I happen to have more RCBS dies by brand than any other brand, but I have several other brands too. For an off the shelf hunting rifle, with a standard factory cut barrel and chamber, the standard FL dies work just fine for the job. For my long range and target loads, I tend to use more Redding competition dies than any other, but I have a couple sets of RCBS competition dies as well.

Now I'll throw my opinion on Lee out there. There is no such thing as "good" and "Lee" in the same sentence. Lee = garbage. If you're a tool guy, or spend any amount of time with tools in your hand, you'll notice right away how crappy the Lee stuff is. It's made with inferior materials, to inferior standards. You guys that are now butt hurt Lee fans, you really think that Lee is the only one who can "magically" produce (ahem, cough) "high quality" tools for half the price of other brands? Like only Lee "figured out" some secret process? Gimme a break. They're that cheap because they use cheap materials, where do you think the cost savings comes from?

Will the Lee stuff make ammo? Sure it will. Can an Indy pit crew work on race cars with cheap Chinese tools, sure, but they'll be pissed about it the whole time. I'm a tool guy. I like good quality tools. Reloading is a hobby for me, I enjoy doing it. Life's too short to play with cheap crappy tools. I've had a few Lee tools in the early years of my reloading, but they sucked, and I either gave them away, or threw them away as I could afford better ones. If the Lee tool is well and truly the only thing you can afford, and you are faced with either NOT reloading at all, or buying Lee to get started, then by all means, buy the Lee. But don't consider it anything else but the absolute CHEAPEST tools made, and trade out of it when you can.

When you buy a good tool, press, or die set, you're buying something that will literally outlast your lifetime. I have a couple of sets of "expensive" RCBS die sets that are going on 40 years old, they still work good as new. I forget what I paid for them at the time, but even at today's current price of dies, figured into 40 YEARS worth of use, does that really sound expensive?

Seriously?

You can hand these tools down to your kids and grandkids, and they will still be good tools, able to produce good results. With that in mind, are you really going to moan about the price of a set of RCBS dies over a set of Lee dies?

Once again, this is just one man's opinion. I'm sure you will hear others as well.

At least we all like Savage rifles, right?

Again - you need to decide what you want to accomplish with your reloading as that will determine which press & dies are best for you.

There's no need to buy benchrest quality dies if you're shooting a round/rifle that is not capable of benchrest accuracy. JMHO

Some dies are better than others, but what do you want to accomplish. For my cowboy shooting and plinking with semi-auto pistols - where the targets are typically no further than 25 yards and all that counts is being able to hit a 12"x12" plate - my LEE dies perform admirably.

Some people feel the need to put a Nightforce/Schmidt & Bender/Swarovski scope on a 50yd .22 LR plinking rifle. If you have the disposable income, spend it like you see fit. But don't feel you have to buy the most expensive, uber-precise, micro-adjustable dies to be a competent reloader.

I caution you against getting penis-envy - you do shoot a Savage, right?

After reloading for 16 years now I have a Lyman turret press, Hornady progressive, and a Forster Co-AX (friggin' awesome press). The forster is as quick if not quicker to change from one dieto another than a turret press.

Over that time I have purchased Lee, Hornady, RCBS, Forster, and Redding dies. What I learned was the only dies I ever had issues with were RCBS, 3 sets. I also learned that while my Lee, low quality, cheap, POS co llet dies produced the same quality ammo as the $220 Redding die set I bought, according to the group size anyway. Oh, I have had my Lee .45 ACP dies for 16 years.

Not sure how having a crimp means you have other issues. If you are loading for a semi-auto rifle, a good crimp will help keep you rounds from growing during recoil. Shooting paper and benchrest single shot then no, no crimp needed.

Forster Dies are great.
I have a set of Hornady that rarely get used now that I have a set of Forsters.

STRICLY BENCH REST OR F-TR:

Which die set or combo of sizer/seating die is the BEST!

6mm, 223, and 308's ?

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Originally Posted by Dennis

STRICLY BENCH REST OR F-TR:

Which die set or combo of sizer/seating die is the BEST!

6mm, 223, and 308's ?

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Not trying to be a smarta$$ but the only correct answer is whatever creates the most accurate ammo for YOUR rifle. Doesn't matter if it is Lee, Forster, RCBS, Dillon or one of many many others or even if you put your ammo together with a hammer it all boils down to what works best for you.

I have and like the Lee collet die in 308 with a RCBS comp seater die. My load holds 1 MOA Vertical at 1000 yds just wish i could read the wind better. My results may not be typical but that is what i have found that works. I have found both good and bad things in almost all the different brands of dies i have used (up to $100 single dies) that i try not to bad mouth any of the brands because there is always the chance you will get a bad one and all the companys i have dealt with have had good customer service.

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Originally Posted by Slowpoke Slim

You will get as many different opinions as people you ask. Some folks (me included) get rather polarized either for or against certain brands, be it reloading, vehicles, guns, computers, beer, you name it.

...
Now I'll throw my opinion on Lee out there. There is no such thing as "good" and "Lee" in the same sentence. Lee = garbage. ...

Will the Lee stuff make ammo? Sure it will. Can an Indy pit crew work on race cars with cheap Chinese tools, sure, but they'll be pissed about it the whole time. I'm a tool guy. I like good quality tools. Reloading is a hobby for me, I enjoy doing it. Life's too short to play with cheap crappy tools. I've had a few Lee tools in the early years of my reloading, but they sucked, and I either gave them away, or threw them away as I could afford better ones. If the Lee tool is well and truly the only thing you can afford, and you are faced with either NOT reloading at all, or buying Lee to get started, then by all means, buy the Lee. But don't consider it anything else but the absolute CHEAPEST tools made, and trade out of it when you can.

When you buy a good tool, press, or die set, you're buying something that will literally outlast your lifetime. I have a couple of sets of "expensive" RCBS die sets that are going on 40 years old, they still work good as new. I forget what I paid for them at the time, but even at today's current price of dies, figured into 40 YEARS worth of use, does that really sound expensive?

Seriously?

You can hand these tools down to your kids and grandkids, and they will still be good tools, able to produce good results. With that in mind, are you really going to moan about the price of a set of RCBS dies over a set of Lee dies?

Once again, this is just one man's opinion. I'm sure you will hear others as well.

At least we all like Savage rifles, right?

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I can hardly believe I read this. You made some decent points, yet you go outta your way to trash Lee dies and tools.

You couldn't be further from the truth. I have Lee, Redding, Forster, and RCBS dies. I like them all. The Lee dies are not the same quality as my Redding or Forster - yet they work equally well in most respects. As an example, I just was out today shooting my 6.5x47L and .308. They are virtuaally the same rifle (stock, action, etc.) the only difference is the .308 is a 30" Criterion and the 6.5 is a 26" Shilen Select Match. The handloads for the .308 were exclusively made using Lee dies - the Shillen were a combiation of Redding and Forster. Gues what... the .308 out performed the 6.5.

Now that is not proof that Lee are better dies - they are not. But it is absolutly proof that Lee dies do work. (and I have more good experiences with Lee dies and tools).

I'm going to be quite objective about this. Dies are important, and you can get bad dies - albeit rare. It's much more important that you develop good handloading techniques and practices. this includes properly setting up your dies and taking the step to ensure consistancy. Consistancy is the key. If you can repeat it, you can compete - period. I'd rather own Redding and Forster dies over Lee, but when I find something that works, I stick with it and I do not shun Lee dies. They work and work well as long as you do your part.

...and BTW - Savage rifles are kinda looked at like Lee dies are. I don't shoot those other expensive rifles, I only shoot Savage. Why? Because they work!

Been reloading for just over 7 years here and I've used Lee, RCBS, and Hornady dies in that time. I've only had 1 issue with any of the dies in that time.
A set of Hornady New Dimension dies in .204 Ruger gave me some trouble but it was my fault not the dies.
I broke the spindle on the sizing die because I didn't get all of the tumbling media out of the case. I threw the die back in the box and set up my Lee .204 set and went right back to reloading.
Fast forward 4 years and I finally get around to contacting Hornady to see about buying some replacement parts for the die and they send me an email to tell me they are sending all the parts to repair the die free of charge. This even though I told them in the email that I broke the die through my own oversight. With customer service like that I am impressed.

As to which are my favorite? The Lee collet dies give me the most accurate results in .308, 22-250, .243, and 7mm-08. The RCBS are the best for my 300 WSM and 25-06
The Hornady are just slightly more accurate than my Lee for .204 Ruger

Since I bought my original sets of .204 Ruger dies Lee has now introduced a .204 Ruger collet die set and I'm probably going to order one and give it a try also.

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

Again - you need to decide what you want to accomplish with your reloading as that will determine which press & dies are best for you.

There's no need to buy benchrest quality dies if you're shooting a round/rifle that is not capable of benchrest accuracy. JMHO

Some dies are better than others, but what do you want to accomplish. For my cowboy shooting and plinking with semi-auto pistols - where the targets are typically no further than 25 yards and all that counts is being able to hit a 12"x12" plate - my LEE dies perform admirably.

Some people feel the need to put a Nightforce/Schmidt & Bender/Swarovski scope on a 50yd .22 LR plinking rifle. If you have the disposable income, spend it like you see fit. But don't feel you have to buy the most expensive, uber-precise, micro-adjustable dies to be a competent reloader.

I caution you against getting penis-envy - you do shoot a Savage, right?

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Lol, I live with 4 girls, I am the only male in the household, so I am playing with barbies and making pony tails most of the time.

I took a really hard look at my reloading needs and it comes down to calibers for paper and few odd calibers for hunting.
for hunting I am happy to go with factory load spec, no need to modify seating or load etc, just near about 2 moa for drive hunts.

So that leaves reloading for paper, once I have my pet load I want to stick to it, kinda eating the same cereal for breakfast everyday. So which setup will allow me to set my powder charge, seating depths etc and not have to mod them as I change calibers?

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Originally Posted by earl39

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Originally Posted by Dennis

STRICLY BENCH REST OR F-TR:

Which die set or combo of sizer/seating die is the BEST!

6mm, 223, and 308's ?

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Not trying to be a smarta$$ but the only correct answer is whatever creates the most accurate ammo for YOUR rifle. Doesn't matter if it is Lee, Forster, RCBS, Dillon or one of many many others or even if you put your ammo together with a hammer it all boils down to what works best for you.

I have and like the Lee collet die in 308 with a RCBS comp seater die. My load holds 1 MOA Vertical at 1000 yds just wish i could read the wind better. My results may not be typical but that is what i have found that works. I have found both good and bad things in almost all the different brands of dies i have used (up to $100 single dies) that i try not to bad mouth any of the brands because there is always the chance you will get a bad one and all the companys i have dealt with have had good customer service.

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I have the same question as Dennis: I think what he meant is which die is easy to manipulate to set seating depths, neck tension, etc. consider that I am a reloading noob, so pls do explain what makes better.

I shot in a match today and LEE DIES came up!

Two shooters at the match swore by the LEE DIES, both were shooting 308's.

Stated they owned all the others, but Lee was the best for their 308's!

Pretty interesting!

PS: I also took overall in the F-TR Class ;D

Personally, I currently own Lee, RCBS, Pacific, and Redding brands of dies. I consider the Lee, RCBS, and Pacific brands of FL and traditional Seating Dies to all be about on the same level. The Redding FL is definitely better than the others, it seems to be polished better and feels smoother when running the brass through.

That being said, the die brand that i look to first and usually buy first is the Lee. I get the Lee Deluxe Rifle Die set and add the Factory Crimp Die. The Collet Die lets me neck size and the Dead-Length Seater is nice and faster to setup since it has no crimping provision and that is great since I don't normally crimp Target Loads. The other added benefit to the Collet die and DL-Seater is that they work great with the parent caliber and the Ackley Version, so I can load 2 calibers and only have to buy 1 set of dies. With the Ackley's I just add on a Redding Body die in the Ackley caliber and then I can bump shoulders as needed.

If I were doing SERIOUS benchrest competition I believe I would still use the Lee Collet Die and Redding Body Die, but change over to a good Forster or Redding Micrometer Seating Die.

As far as the Bashing of one brand or another, I just figure we all have different tastes and budgets. What I like suits me, but of course will not suit everyone. Some of us like Chevy ;D, a few others like Ford ::), and even others yet like Dodge :-\.

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Originally Posted by Stockrex

I have the same question as Dennis: I think what he meant is which die is easy to manipulate to set seating depths, neck tension, etc. consider that I am a reloading noob, so pls do explain what makes better.

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Seating depth----- the easiest to manipulate would be any of the dies with micrometer seating stem.

Neck tension------ easiest would be any of the neck sizing bushing dies just change the bushing The others can be tightened by lapping the button but can't be reversed without getting a new button. Lee neck sizing collet die you lap, sand, file or whatever you do to reduce it but have replace the stem to get it back to factory spec just like a button.

setting shoulder bump---- a shoulder bump die is the only way to do this. Others will say just back off or screw in your regular die but you change how much of the neck you are sizing when you do that.

Those three things are the main things we can easily work with and not have to search out the perfect die. Body taper, actual body sizing dies all have tolerances and you can get them on both ends of that tolerance gap.

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Originally Posted by Stockrex

Lol, I live with 4 girls, I am the only male in the household, so I am playing with barbies and making pony tails most of the time.

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Me too! Wife, two daughters (14 & 16), and my dog is a female.

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Originally Posted by Stockrex

So which setup will allow me to set my powder charge, seating depths etc and not have to mod them as I change calibers?

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Starting with the least expensive:

A turret press (LEE 4-hole being least expensive) with extra turrets for each caliber. Load a turret with your dies and adjust your dies as necessary to load the ammo the way you want. When you are ready to change calibers, remove the whole turret & replace it with another turret which has the dies for another cartridge already. The only thing you will have to reset would be a powder measure unless you buy multiple powder measures.

Next up would be the Redding T-7 turret. Same as the the LEE 4-hole except it has room for seven dies. Each turret could potentially be set up for two calibers, meaning you wouldn't need a turret for each caliber. The press & turrets are quite a bit more expensive than the LEE, so probably no savings. I do believe the Redding turret is stronger then the LEE but I have no proof of that. The turrets require a stand-alone powder measure but with the money saved over the progressives you can buy a few quality ones.

Next would be the Dillon 550 (semi-progressive) and/or Hornady Lock N' Load (full progressive). These two cost about the same initially but it will probably cost less to upgrade the LNL for each additional caliber. The Hornady LNL die bushings make swapping out the dies very easy. You would only need a shellplate for each family of cartrdidges and you would have to reset the powder measure each time you swapped (unless you buy multiple powder measures) as well as switching priming assemblies when you switch primer sizes. With the 550 you will have to have a caliber conversion kit for each family of cartridges and a toolhead with powder die for each specific cartridge. Even then you'll have to switch the powder hopper from toolhead to toolhead, and readjust as necessary, every time you switch calibers.

The Dillon 650 would be even more expensive and I don't feel it would make any better ammo or speed things up enough to justify the cost.

Again, these are just my opinions. As I said in another post I am currently running a Dillon 550 and I'm waiting on delivery of another 550 I bought from a fellow shooter for a really good price. I'll have one set up for large primers and one for small, with extra toolheads & caliber conversions for each cartridge I load. I will still need to pick up a few more powder measures but I will shop around for those as well. If I had not come upon such a good deal, I would be buying a new turret press.

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Originally Posted by Stockrex

So that leaves reloading for paper, once I have my pet load I want to stick to it, kinda eating the same cereal for breakfast everyday. So which setup will allow me to set my powder charge, seating depths etc and not have to mod them as I change calibers?

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If you are going to only load your one "pet load" every time then once you find the correct seating depth for you bullet you will just set the die at that point and leave it alone.
What are you using right now for measuring your powder charge?
I have a Lee Perfect Powder Measure and Lee Safety powder Scale that I used for 2 years with a Redding powder trickle to get my loads done. Nothing wrong with this type of setup except the time and concentration it took to get it set up for changes in the weight you are loading. I've since bought an electronic scale dispenser combo from RCBS because I reload so many different loads/chambers that I just wanted something easier to deal with for all the switching powders and weights.
You will have to mod seating depth and powder charge as you change calibers however.

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

I caution you against getting penis-envy - you do shoot a Savage, right?

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And there it is...

As I said when I made my comments, with MY opinions, you'll get at least as many different opinions as people you ask. AND some folks get real TESTY when you 'dis their favorite.

But it takes a real DIGNITARY like 'ol Rick here to QUESTION SOMEONES MANHOOD because they don't agree with him.

Perfect example of what I was referring to.

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Originally Posted by Slowpoke Slim

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

I caution you against getting penis-envy - you do shoot a Savage, right?

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And there it is...

As I said when I made my comments, with MY opinions, you'll get at least as many different opinions as people you ask. AND some folks get real TESTY when you 'dis their favorite.

But it takes a real DIGNITARY like 'ol Rick here to QUESTION SOMEONES MANHOOD because they don't agree with him.

Perfect example of what I was referring to.

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Slowpoke I think you jumped to a conclusion that wasn't justified.
The caution against penis-envy isn't questioning anyone's manhood.
It's akin to saying don't spend more money than necessary to buy the "best there is" because somebody else owns it and it does a great job. Buy what is going to do the job you want done without spending too much to do it.
If you take the entire post into consideration instead of just grabbing one line out of context it becomes even more obvious.

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

Again - you need to decide what you want to accomplish with your reloading as that will determine which press & dies are best for you.

There's no need to buy benchrest quality dies if you're shooting a round/rifle that is not capable of benchrest accuracy. JMHO

Some dies are better than others, but what do you want to accomplish. For my cowboy shooting and plinking with semi-auto pistols - where the targets are typically no further than 25 yards and all that counts is being able to hit a 12"x12" plate - my LEE dies perform admirably.

Some people feel the need to put a Nightforce/Schmidt & Bender/Swarovski scope on a 50yd .22 LR plinking rifle. If you have the disposable income, spend it like you see fit. But don't feel you have to buy the most expensive, uber-precise, micro-adjustable dies to be a competent reloader.

I caution you against getting penis-envy - you do shoot a Savage, right?

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And I'd like to take this moment to point out that the only one who has come across as being "testy" isn't Rick_W.

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Originally Posted by Slowpoke Slim

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

I caution you against getting penis-envy - you do shoot a Savage, right?

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And there it is...

As I said when I made my comments, with MY opinions, you'll get at least as many different opinions as people you ask. AND some folks get real TESTY when you 'dis their favorite.

But it takes a real DIGNITARY like 'ol Rick here to QUESTION SOMEONES MANHOOD because they don't agree with him.

Perfect example of what I was referring to.

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Slim - If you'll read & COMPREHEND what I put in my posts - you would not have posted what you did.

I never recommended a particular press for the OP, only listed those that would do the job and the limitations of those as I know them.

Too many people buy the most expensive scope, largest/most powerful motorcycle/car/boat, or most expensive shooting glasses - not necessarily because they are the best for them, but because they don't want to feel inadequate in front of others. That is called penis envy.

Perhaps if you did a little research on where and why the "envy" term came about, you'd understand it's true meaning.

Last comment by me on any of this.

Have a good day.

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Originally Posted by Slowpoke Slim

Perhaps if you did a little research on where and why the "envy" term came about, you'd understand it's true meaning.

Last comment by me on any of this.

Have a good day.

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Seems you may be a bit insecure without your high-dollar equipment...

Carry on!