What kind of accuracy can I expect to get out of my rifle once I rebarrel it with a 243 or 6.5x284 and handload? Also I will bed action and freefloat.
Basically, what is the potential of the 110 action?
Can I get at least 1/2 moa?
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What kind of accuracy can I expect to get out of my rifle once I rebarrel it with a 243 or 6.5x284 and handload? Also I will bed action and freefloat.
Basically, what is the potential of the 110 action?
Can I get at least 1/2 moa?
If I am not getting 1/2MOA out of mine, I am usually looking to see if something is wrong. ;)
A good stock and barrel are a big help, but most of my Savages have done 1/2MOA with the factory barrels using the load that the barrel likes.
The stock action is capable of it, but the barrel is what makes the gun shoot. A high quality barrel will take up a lot of errors in other places. Some calibers are more inherently accurate and so I would stick with them. The 6.5x284 is a good bet but the 243 isn't, I would go with the 6mm rem. Never had one that wouldn't shoot good and has more oomph than the 243. Your handloads need to be up to par as well as your bedding job.
On exactly what are you basing your statement that a .243 is not a good choice for an accurate rifle? Quality components, proper assembly and well researched and carefully assembled handloads make accurate rifles, not the caliber. I would be willing to bet that I could find quite a few people that would argue that the .243 is a very accurate round. Any caliber round has the potential to be more accurate than the people behind them, as long as the rifle and the load are of good quality.
Yes you can make an accurate rifle in just about every caliber, but for it to be the most accurate and the most inherently accurate are two different things. What I say is the difference is that if you have to do everything perfect to get a good group you have an accurate rifle, but if you can mess up a detail here or there and still have accuracy it is inherently accurate. I have a couple of "favorite rifles" that will shoot <moa with everything, not just the tuned load. Everybody here will agree that some calibers are more inherently accurate than others, thats why certain calibers are more dominant in benchrest. The 222 rem is the first example of this, it will pick up the mistakes and hide them and that is why the 223 just isn't as accurate a case as the 222. It is just how it is. There are 243 rifles that are very accurate. I have a friend who shoots one in 1000 yard competition. But if I was to bet on a rifle being accurate I would go with a 6mm rem over a 243. That is my personal experience and what I judge my statement on. I have had better accuracy potential out of the 6mm rem case, whether it is the longer neck, or the shoulder angle I don't know but it just seems to be more forgiving. Even the 6.5x284 is a bit of a gamble it can get touchy in load developement.Quote:
Originally Posted by brtelec
I personally do not adhere to the "inherently accurate" school of thought. I do agree that some calibers are more forgiving than others in load development however. I have found that one of the reason that you will find a predominance of certain calibers in competition shooting is because most people will use whatever is winning. Then you add to that the fact that a large number of people have already done all the real work in load development and it makes it easier to narrow down bullet powder combinations that tend to be "accurate" with just small tweaking. If the next champion of any long range shooting sport wins with a .458 Winchester mag., within a year that will be the next big round at every match and it will be described as "inherently accurate".
Welcome to the site.Quote:
Originally Posted by hmbleservant
The potential of a 110 action is great, it would depend more on the shooter, their ability, and the equipment used. Yes 1/2 MOA should be easily obtained, but you never said 1/2 MOA at what yardage? If your looking for 1/2 MOA at 100 and 200 yards, you should be able to pull a Savage rifle out of the box and obtain this goal. Now if your looking for 1/2 MOA out at 600 and 1000 yards, now things get to be a bit more difficult.
I am very failure with the 110, and shooting a 243 Win, and I can attest that it is a great winning combo out to 1000 yards. The 243 is one accurate flat shooting cartridge no doubt, Dave Tubbs can also attest to the accuracy of it, as he has done very well with it. When I started shooting 600 yard IBS match's I had a pieced together 110 rifle, the action was an old rusted up thing I got cheap at a pawn shop, the barrel was a used Factory Savage 243 1 in 9.25 twist off of a 12 BVSS. The stock was an old Factory BT I bought unfinished, I had a cheap "Famous maker" brand 36 power scope on it, and I shot old winchester range brass that I prepped. This gun shot very well, at 100 yards I won a few match's with 5 shot groups in the .3 area, the gun wold shot aggregates in the .5 area. At 600 yard the gun was hard to shoot because the stock would torque, and it would get pushed all out of shape when fired, making it difficult to see where slighter shots was hitting, but I still managed to finish well, and beat out a lot of good shooters, with high dollar equipment. Here is a funny story I will share; I was shooting at IBS 600 yard match with this thing, and I was doing very well, one of the fellows came over looked at my rig then picked up one of my shells and looked at the bottom. He then yelled out "A 243, you have got to be kidding me!" He then threw the shell back in my box, and stormed off going the other way.
That 243 Win was a great shooting rifle, and it got a new stock, and was re-barreled, to what my long range gun is now. The gun has had a few barrels on it, and has shot well. I abandoned the 243 Win in favor of better, more efficient calibers. When I had a 6x47 lapua barrel on this gun I shot in the IBS 600 Nationals, and won a Match pin, betting out many of the top long range shooters around. This year I switched to a 6mmBR, and so far the 600 yard matches I have shot I have finished somewere around the top 5. This old 110 will hold 1/2 MOA all day long at 600 yards, and it has done it at 1000 yards as well.
There is nothing wrong with a 243 Win, and out of all the factory caliber choices, it would be one of my first to pick, that is if I was looking for a long range (600-1000 yard) cartridge. I feel the 6BR is a far better choice. The 6x284 is popular, and would also be a good choice, but I would favor the 6x47 L over it. The moral of the story, is a 110 action can be just as accurate as any Savage action, and with some work it will preform with the top name custom actions. You need to fit the caliber choice to the intended use of the gun.
Okay, :) no big deal but I bet you never had a 222. I honestly have never seen one that didn't shoot exceptional. In fact I can show you a 722 remington in 222 that was my great grandfather's favorite groundhog gun. The bore on that gun looks like it laid at the bottom of a creek for most of it's life (those corrosive primers or so I'm told). Some how it still will shoot 1/2 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards with any 50 - 55 grain bullet and blc2 or 335 or anything else in that neighborhood.Quote:
Originally Posted by brtelec
Good luck to OP sorry about the slight derail.
for MOST shooters the 10 or the 110 will shoot great, after you get your rifle shooting one half moa at long range (500 to 1000) its my experience that it will all fall back to the shooters ability to read the conditions and repeat shooting form. This is where i am right now, my guns accuracy is not in question as my model 12 6br will shoot less than half moa at 600(best so far is 2 inch group) but i am still getting my rear kicked in competition due to my lack of knowledge of the conditions and my form. good luck
well since ya'll allready derailed it ;D...
Do you happen to know the most "inherently accurate" cartridge of the Big Sevens (7mm STW or in that ballpark)?
I have learned that, generally speaking, the shorter fatter cartridges are supperior in accuracy and efficiency, but in the world of long range hunting there are other things to consider like combatting the wind and delivering energy to targets at long ranges. For these reasons, the magnum type cartridges are a favorite, more so with hunters than competition shooters.
I had my mind made up on the 7mm WSM for a future build, but recently have learned to consider the 7mm STW due to the added ~200 fps for fighting wind, drift, etc. and delivering energy. The advantages I have as a hunter vs a comp. shooter are a muzzle break and limited shooting. I don't care about recoil or barrel life. I just want the best odds of delivering a well placed shot (about 8") at 1000-1500 yards in whatever conditions the hunt throws at me!
Can you help me balance that fine-line scale of "barrel accuracy" vs "bullet speed" for best hit probability in the elements?
Control Variable=180 gr Berger Hunting VLD
That would be quite a task, to say the least! I can comment on the 180g .284 Berger VLD as a round that bucks the wind, and hits harder than a 300Win at a 1000yards, but that is not to say that the wind still does not play a crazy amount of effect at anything over, say 700-800 yards. Let alone the change in elevation impact as the sun heats up all your gear during the day. I have also seen the target/hunting 180g Bergers shed the jacket and miss 400 yard targets when I pushed that load too hard/fast. I watched my 7mmWSM gain 3MOA at 1000 over the course of a day (yep 30+ inches, the day started cool, and the gear got too hot to touch just by the sun).Quote:
Originally Posted by hmbleservant
I wont say how fast I have worked up the 180vld, but I backed it down to the 2950fps range after a hot day and blown primers that took me out of a shoot (did not feel it was safe to keep shooting, and after a 3.5hr drive to the shoot, I got to just sit an watch...talk about perfect conditions, 0.5MOA wind to a 1000 yards).