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This has been discussed here a bunch, search function sends me to google. I'm going to swap out a .221 fireball barrel to a 16" .223 savage barrel on the striker to deer hunt this season. I have some barnes 69 gr and maybe a few 75 gr fiber tipped hornady bullets.
Any need to shop for something better? 100+ yrds is most common, open shooting lanes or field shooting.
What twist ratio?Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleseed
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I'm a dinosaur because I mostly shoot the Sierra #1400 53 gr MatchKing bullet. I'm going on 40 years with that bullet! Did in my .222 Rem and do in my .223 Rem. Great for targets and grim death on varmints.
But both with 1:12" twist barrels.
In a stock 20” savage 1-9 barrel will shoot a 77gn smk just fine. Let’s not look at O “77gns” it’s Serrias shape or ogive. A 75gn bullet of a different manufacture wont always work. Or shoot well.
I deer hunt with the 62gn TSX and the 77gn smk.
Let us know more information and maybe I can suggest a bullet.
I don’t know of a .223 barrel that won’t shoot a 55gn blitzking / gameking a serria bullet.
Works on small deer also. Very accurate
The 60gn partitions and federal 62gn fusions work also. Winchester makes a 60gn soft point that works.
Speed kills so under 150yds shoot on!
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This is supposed to be the best. Pretty new and I haven’t tried them.
Hornady GMX sounds promising also.
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yes i think you want some hunting bullets for the 22, not target bullets.
your s sound like typical 223 target bullets
Imho
1-12 40-55 gr, 1-9 55-62gr, 1-7 62-77gr.. just been my experiences that those twist ratios work best with those grains.. alot of things can make that not the case like size of driving band but I definitely wouldnt expect an1-12 to stabilize a 68-77gr bullet
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Stock savage barrels are 1/9 twist, more interested with how 16" barrel length might preform with knock-down power in a heavier bullet range. Yes the barnes is a hollow point target bullet, that's why there may be a better choice, and the hornady is somewhat the same.
Guess I should post comments before inserting the link, ANYWAY, it's the length of a bullet, not the weight. When a few shooters tried using the Rem. 221 Fireballs with their 1-14 twists for pistol silhouette shooting they were limited to 52/53 match bullets, FB 55 gn and the Speer 70 gn semi spire point bullets.
I will add that the 77gn SMK's, at the higher end of book loads, are stable out to long range (>600yd) with my Axis (1-9, 22" barrel). But, I would not hunt larger game with them. Hornady 75gn ELD's are also stable, but, are also target bullets. Not sure if Hornady designed them to penetrate deer size game.
^^ That.
Yeah. I got into a real pissing match in another forum with a shooter (using a .223/5.56 NATO, by coincidence) for hunting, and he was going on about the benefits of "match" ammo for hunting.
We had some differences of opinion on what constitutes match ammo as regards to the qualities of ammunition loaded with a non-expanding match style bullet vs. very carefully handloaded ammunition with bullets designed to expand in the size of the animal you are hunting and the velocity it will strike that animal at.
Anyway, he is convinced Mk262 is God's gift to hunters and my point was that Black Hills and the SOCOM & AMU could care less about shooting a deer and that ammo was designed for a whole different scenario. Push come to shove it is just a Sierra MatchKing bullet. And even Sierra states: "While they are recognized around the world for record-setting accuracy, MatchKing® and Tipped MatchKing® bullets are not recommended for most hunting applications." What the military wants at 700 meters/yards is not a cleanly killed whitetail or mule deer.
That's why I shoot a GameKing bullet, but loaded with all the care I put into reloading as when I shot bencdrest in a league.
Nicely stated lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
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And all this time I thought the 556 NATO / 223 was designed to wound a 150lb biped.
.223 Rem was designed to allow a soldier to carry a $hitload of ammo because no one could shoot worth a $hit that was coming into the service at that time.
Oop. Sorry. Was that out loud?
I don’t agree with anything beyond small game using 223. I don’t believe using them on medium/larger game is ethical. But I was never a sport hunter either.
Now, not only 223, but even thinking of doing it with only a 16” 1:9 twist barrel to boot? Ok. Hope you don”t “wound” any game animals to death!
I'm with you there. I have raised chickens and formerly sheep and the .223 Rem (53 gr 1:12" twist) has been my go to varmint rifle beside the kitchen door for years. But I consider it a 100 lb and less game hunting round. Grim death on coyotes and foxes but there are so many better choices for deer.
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Lol.. that's all I can say lol:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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I have a feeling you and I would get along just fine lmboQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
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Maybe I'm the only one who sees issues with trying to load a heavy bullet in a 9 twist, 16 inch barrel. It takes a slow burning powder to launch a 77 gr at a decent velocity, and with only 16 inches of barrel, much of the propellant will still be burning after the bullet exits, adding nothing to velocity. Switching to a faster powder will risk building pressure to extreme levels, IMOP.
Not saying it can't be done, just that it might be wiser to go with a 60 ish grain bullet and fast powder to get a good, lethal load. Unless of course, you always head shoot your deer at 100 yds. In that case, it probably doesn't matter.
Im starting to like the idea of a 6mmx 47(204ruger) or the blackout for this purpose. A 90 gr 6mm or 125 grain 30cal might be better medicine for those four legged 150 plus ruminants.
The smaller 60+ grain and fast powder should work, always a neck/head shot close range, (never over 100yrds open ground), maybe just carry the 20ga and single ought. If it weren't for loading wildcat ammo, there would be a 6mm/45 on the striker now. Tried the blkout, it was a lot of work to load. A 150lb deer is big for this area until you get up towards VA mtns.
The Federal Fusion 62 gr. is a great bullet it will exit on all behind the shoulder shots....put it high close to the spine they will drop in there tracks....put it on the synovial joint a bigger caliber would be better....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
Correct you are sir !!
Cheers!
DD
Well.. one time long ago I had this conversation with a buddy. I asked him to go stand anywhere from 500yds to 800yds. I would shoot at him with my .223 and at the time my .270. Then report to me which one hurt more [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji16]
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Considering that the .223 has a greater chance of wounding me instead of killing me, then I would pick the .223 :)
I had a very good friend that loved to shoot and deer/turkey hunt, he's dead 5 years now. He wasn't an aficionado or reloader. Off the bench, he held his index finger on the barrel top lightly of an old savage 243..and he shot that ragged rifle as good as my 12fv. He said he'd learned that savage rifles liked Federal Powershok ammo. I see there is a SP 64gr in Powershok I'll try.
One of the guys at the range is a cull hunter for the state. He uses 62gr WIN PP's out of a very nice Rem 700SA with a 20" tube and a can.
Said for the most part the die mid step base of neck/spine shots is what they prefer it sounds.
It would not be my Whitetail round of choice.
Now a .223 + .020 that has been my favorite deer caliber for a long time.
This is about the point where in years past the discussion splits to the "Inuit kill 2,200 lb walruses with .22 Magnums" vs. the "You have to have 2,000 ft pounds and an expanding bullet to kill even 60 lb Sika deer" factions.
We all hunt in different regions, different cover, different terrain, different size prey. When I hunted on state land in NY State if the deer ran 100 yards it would have been fired on by two other hunters; so 12 gauge slugs or two or three were the norm. Happily where I hunt now in seven days out I have seen one other hunter (I doubt he saw me).
I'm working on my 48th deer (5 yards to 160 yards in thick cover to woodlots), have seen another 150 +/- killed and poked over another 200 carcasses at butchers or neighbor barns/garages and I have a few observations. And these are just my personal thoughts:
1. Neck shots are iffy on whitetail because they move their heads and necks suddenly, swiftly and frequently
2. If you perforate both lungs they will suffocate or bleed out as long as the holes remain open (no fat, clots, tissue plugs) so bigger holes are better statistically
3. A well placed "weak" projectile is much better than a poorly placed "strong" projectile
4. A deer "zinged" in the spine that does not actually damage nerves can get up and run off minutes after it collapses
5. Too much in the right place is always enough
Yes, a .223/5.56mm will do the job. Especially a well designed long and "heavy" bullet. But there may be the twig, twitch, jerk, wrong distance estimation, wind or wobble that puts not quite where you were aiming. That's when some excess is helpful.
I had a neighbor (lived to age 104) who hunted from his back hill, then backyard, eventually back porch, with a .25-20 Marlin. Usually took his deer during deer season . . . sometimes not quite. But they never went far and were always headshot. He just waited for the right shot . . . and didn't have a fence around his kitchen garden and waited for them to chomp on a turnip or parsnip. Can't argue with success.
I enjoy reading these discussions on 22 caliber for deer although some places, like my home state for instance, mandate minimum 24 caliber centerfire rifle (except for cougar).
The idiocy here, however, is one can legally hunt big game using
Can you imagine deer hunting with a 4" barreled 25ACP or 9mm? Perfectly legal here but you better not use a 22 centerfire rifle!!Quote:
handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches per manufacturers specification, and fire a minimum .24 caliber centerfire cartridge.
I prefer hunting steel targets and paper lol
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Any good recipes?
I've had good luck with 25 gr of accurate 2520 with hornady 62gr ss109, and 23.5 gr imr 8208 xbr same 62gr ss109Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
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I use exclusively LE Wilson chamber seating dies on all my rifle loads bolt or ar.. in my opinion, there is no more accurate seater die than it... just my opinion I reckon https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b9fbe7c9c6.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
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I meant for the steel and paper you hunt. ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
I've been rocking a RCBS Jr. since Jimmy Carter was president. ;-)
Attachment 6547
Oh lmbo, nothing really tastes good with lead and copper [emoji38]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
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I replaced the striker .243 barrel with the .223, the blast and recoil from the first was too much for me unless on the bench. Of course the bolt head was changed. I think the 6mm/45 would be just right, but, no factory ammo, even though I reload. Another neighbor nearby hunts a 30/30 TC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Feasel
No flies on a 6mmx45 they work well, make a 40 degree shoulder they work better.