Poor grouping-7 mm Mag trophy 111-Help

I bought this rifle last year as the Nikon package. I attempted to site in, and the gun shot horrible groups 3-5" @ 100yrds with 165gr SGK federal premium, 150gr fed blue box, 150 gr federal premium nosler ballistic tip. I tried another shooter, to eliminate me as cause-groups were just as bad. I sent the rifle in to savage and they replaced Nikon Scope and barrel due to loose groupings. I received the rifle back and attempted to site in again using 165gr SGK federal premium, 150gr fed blue box, 150 gr federal premium trophy copper, 150gr Winchester silvertips, and Hornady 139gr-All rings, mounts, action bolts tight. Gun would not group better than 2" at 50Yrds-( shots were in groups of 2, with 10-15 min between groups to allow adequate barrel cooling). I called savage and sent gun in again with paper targets of groupings. I received gun back with everything checking normal and one target of a 1.25 group using nosler ballistic tips.
Since target showed grouping, I decided to change to one piece base for better eye-relief. I lock-tite and torqued new base. I placed burris signature Z rings, which were also torqued. I attempted to site in again and groups were worse than before, shooting left and right of center-6" @ 100 yrds. I checked scope, bases, mounts, all were secure. I decided to change scopes. I placed a Nikon Buckmaster that I am currently using on a 30-06 and used Leupold PRW rings. I also loosened and re-torqued action screws. I shot gun again. This time groups improved slightly, 3-4" with previous brands of Ammo, and allowing barrel to cool. Any ideas?

I have 223 & 243 Axis that will shoot sub 1" groups with multiple groups of factory ammo. I have 270/30-06 in Remington 770 that will shoot 1" groups, TC Venture 300WSM shooting 1", and a 12g shooting 2-3" @ 100 yrds. I have been shooting for years. This is the most problematic gun I have ever owned. I am going to lead sled it on Tuesday and let another friend who owns gun range/reloads shoot the gun.

I am lost as to ideas. I have read bedding can help. But, none of my other rifles are bedded and shoot appropriately. It seems that I am having a lot of effort and work involved in attempting to make a rifle accurate than should be necessary, guess I am venting from aggravation. I read through the forums, seen similar post, but many prove to be loose rings/mounts/scopes, action screws. I have eliminated these. I am lost to ideas.

How many rounds on rebarrel? I have a 110 @100 rounds and its beginning to break in and settle down. Was just about to pull it. Plan to get another 100 on it and settle on a load for hunting.

The thing was really eating copper but @100 its improved a lot. If it won't get consistent 1" or better with tuned loads I'll put my old ss barrel on until I can find a quality replacment.

maybe 50 rounds on re-barrel. I for got to add, the last time I sent back in, they checked head space, and it was fine. Comparing to my axis, they grouped great within 20 rounds. I guess could buy some cheaper bullets to just shoot through it, my fault for buying rifle with expensive ammo. Keep ideas coming, thanks for help.

My old one did real well with the federal 160gr bonded DeerThugz. Fairly cheap too. Thats why I was disappointed with the new one at first. It took a while but it's finally getting some decent groups and is easier to clean. Haven't been hot rodding it much but have had 175gr up to 3050fps which was screaming along oughta there. We seem to get good accuracy with 175gr bullets @2835ish just short of the Remington cor-lokt 175gr@2860 (2845 chrono avg which seems to sit on a scatter node edge) We tested in 2 rem700's and my Savage all 24" barrels and the node was consistent for all three. I prefer the 168gr vld's for accuracy but only have a small amount left I'm hoarding for myself. Easily shot .5-.7 with the old rifle. Which is now my 500/375 Thumper.

I haven't bedded mine yet. But will soon now that its starting to prove up. We have a couple more 175gr loads to try then we'll be shooting 3 powders each at the best accuracy node comparing results out of the 3 rifles settling on the overall best for this years harvest.

What is the twist on the barrel? What powder are you using? Try 140GR. bullets. I had a heck of a time until I went to 140GR. Sierras and H1000 powder. 1/2" groups@100yds. FINALLY!

Have you checked the tang and the barrel to ensure they are floated? If they are try adding a piece of cardboard right at the end of the stock and see if it improves any. Its possible you are getting some excessive barrel whip and a little fore end pressure may help. Worth a shot anyways.

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I am lost to ideas.

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Trade the Savage 7mm Magnum and use the rifles you have that shoot well. Problem solved.

Ha Ha WBM, no kidding. BTW I have not known that many people to be happy with that kind of power coupled with the Nikon Scopes. I like Nikon but only on their higher quality tubes like the Monarch. Once you have the proper glass on it then you can determine if it is your loads or your recoil flinch.

I sent the rifle back in. The Nikon Buckmaster scope is a good scope that I had been shooting on my 30-06 without problems. Shot a nikon prostaff on a 300 WSM without problems. I would not think the scope is the issue. I have used two different scopes,-one I knwo works. I had a friend, gun range owner shoot the rifle and he had 3-4" groups. I let the rifle cool 30 minutes in air conditioning, then shot off lead sled (elminating flinch), with a 4" group. Its odd, because somtimes shot 2 and 3 are right beside each other, yet the first shot is 3 inches away. If I let the rifle cool and shoot a fourth shot it will be scattered away from the other three. I just recieved the rifle back. They shot it with thier scope and nosler 150gr blaistic and got 0.8-1" groups. I am goin to shoot tomorrow and see what happens. I think it is odd, that it cannot group anything other than the 150gr noslers federal premium ammo though. Guess I will see what happens. I am not re-loading, shoot shelf ammo. I know reloading is better, but have never had this much problem/spread with factory ammo.

Good grief. I have mine about where it should be. Bedding and floating the tang tightened up the 3rd shot flier. Its a wood stock though so it was pretty much a given.

I'm going with flinch as the cause.

What are you using for a rest, I also think it could be flinching and jerking the trigger, do you have a buddy that could shoot a few shots to see how it does with someone else pulling the trigger.

Other than using the lead sled, all shots have been of sand bags. I have used two other people to shoot. The last was my friend who owns a gun range, regularly sites in rifles for people. His groups were equally bad, just as mine, His groups made a rights triangle, with each shot about 3 inches/little over apart. I assumed flinching as possible cause earlier, even though I have never flinched on other rifles with more recoil. I shoot fairly regularly, few times per month at the range, and have been shooting since I was 10 or so. I am 31 now, so 20ish years. My groups, the other peoples groups, and the lead sled group were are equally bad, eliminating flinch.

Savage states they shoot theirs from the shoulder for testing, using a recoil device for the shooter since he shoots all day. This last time they used their scope, but previously they used the same one I used and got little over 1". If it shoot today, then its basically will only shoot one brand of ammo and scatter the rest in the wind. Its just Weird.

Just got back, the cooler weather helped with barrel heat. I used my personal Nikon Buckmaster, Leupold PRW rings, Federal premium Nosler Ballistic tip 150 gr.Made shots every about evry 20 minutes. The gun shot better, one group was 1", the others were about 1.25-1.75. I did notice that it seemed to be the third shot widening the group, the first two were usually less than 1". Barrel heat I am assuming. Still strange that the other 5-6 brands of bullet were 3-4" groups and this one is about 1". I know each gun with have its own best load, but never seen this much variation before, maybe I have just been lucky.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4899e818.jpg

Came together for me after epoxy bedding and floating the tang. Was working on cold weather load. Couldn't pull it in until temp got down around 40. Will probably drop .1 off the charge to get into the node around 50.

Great job

Now that it will group a little with the ballistic tips, I am going to try and bed it, see if I can tighten it up some. I need to search for how to do the epoxy bedding, this will be my first. I am also going to make sure barrel actually floated. I would love your grouping and shooting. I Need to learn how to reload.

There are so many factors to getting ammo that will shoot. Buddy has been shooting cheap Remington cor-lokt 175gr for years. Always grouped about the size of a quarter when its cold late fall right before deer season. This summer when it was 75 ish he couldn't get them under 3"s while trying to fine tune his zero. So we worked. Out a warm weather load for him. Really amazing about 75fps is all that separates the loads.

I had a 111 7mm Mag. I shot Hornady 162 grain SST. It shot dime size groups at 100 yards. It took me many trips to the range and 10 different boxes of various types of ammo. But the 162gr never failed to give a great group.

Some might look at me funny for recommending this, but it's always worth a shot - try putting a cardboard or similar type shim between the barrel and the tip of the forend of the stock that's thick enough to just put some light pressure on the barrel. Having pressure at this point was actually the norm back in the day on sporter barrels before the free-float fad took over. It basically shortens the length of the barrel as far as harmonic's are concerned, making it act like a heavier, more rigid barrel. Could even try one of these barrel de-resonators as an alternative.

http://www.limbsaver.com/product/lim...-de-resonator/

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Originally Posted by J. Baker

Some might look at me funny for recommending this, but it's always worth a shot - try putting a cardboard or similar type shim between the barrel and the tip of the forend of the stock that's thick enough to just put some light pressure on the barrel. . /

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Most rifles will shoot they're best with the barrel floated from the recoil lug forward but not always. My little 270 (270-308 Imp) shoots light years better with a pressure point near the forend with it's 22" LWT (.560" muzzle) barrel, 1-1/2" aggs vs .5".

By the same token some like the first two or three inches of the barrel bedded forward the lug.

Its one of those things you just have to play with.

Bill

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Some might look at me funny for recommending this, but it's always worth a shot - try putting a cardboard or similar type shim between the barrel and the tip of the forend of the stock that's thick enough to just put some light pressure on the barrel. Having pressure at this point was actually the norm back in the day on sporter barrels before the free-float fad took over.

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Sure was. At one time, Remington and Winchester walnut stocks had a raised area at the end of the forearm to apply that small amount of pressure when the action screws were tightened.

I assume you have also checked the torque on the action screws. IMO, the Trophy Hunter tupperware stock is contributing to the problem. With the DBM cut out it is even weaker than the former Savage tupperware stocks with the blind magazine. Especially with 7mm Rem Mag recoil. Try glass bedding the recoil lug and action making sure the tang and barrel are free floated. Shoot it off the bags and control the forend by holding firmly in the front bags to eliminate muzzle jump. Factory loads are the luck of the draw, since they can't be tuned to your rifle.

Try loading up some 22RL. I shoot 64 gr with hornady 154 gr spire pt. Under one inch group. Noticeably less recoil than using imr 4350. bill

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Originally Posted by J. Baker

Some might look at me funny for recommending this, but it's always worth a shot - try putting a cardboard or similar type shim between the barrel and the tip of the forend of the stock that's thick enough to just put some light pressure on the barrel. Having pressure at this point was actually the norm back in the day on sporter barrels before the free-float fad took over. It basically shortens the length of the barrel as far as harmonic's are concerned, making it act like a heavier, more rigid barrel. Could even try one of these barrel de-resonators as an alternative.

http://www.limbsaver.com/product/lim...-de-resonator/

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Every Ruger I have ever messed with has preferred a little for end pressure. Sometimes with these light weight savages and especially those in magnum calibers excessive barrel whip can be a problem. Adding a piece of card board as you suggest is a quick way to check. Results should be pretty obvious if it will like it or not.