Does a target action need timing and trueing?

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03-23-2010, 03:08 PM
Cort

Does a target action need timing and trueing?

I am collecting pieces to build a single shot 6 BR. If I buy an aftermarket action from BAT or Stiller or ..., the action should not need any additional work. Does a Savage target action need a visit to Fred before I assemble the rifle?

Thanks,

Cort
03-23-2010, 03:13 PM
Hammer

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

.

Regardless of need...

I send all Savage actions to SharpShooter just to be blessed and have General Target approve them.

.
03-23-2010, 05:00 PM
docsleepy

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

yep, the savage target action needs trueing. And maybe firing pin bushing. And I dunno if the bolt need to be tighter in the races or not....
03-23-2010, 05:06 PM
docsleepy

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

there just isn't a complete way to win. With the savage, you avoid needing gunsmiths for every barrel change, but you pay for it in needing additional work done to the action (if you want extreme accuracy; it is fine for many purposes I believe (as if I were an expert!)). With a Lawton ($750) you get a lot of things built in, but then you're stuck needing a gunsmith. On the other hand, once the barrels are done, you can switch them a fair bit easier than I can, my Savage action. Tradeoffs!
03-23-2010, 06:35 PM
tiny68

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cort

If I buy an aftermarket action from BAT or Stiller or ..., the action should not need any additional work.

I know several benchrest shooters that have had their brand new out of the box customs tuned up.... Customs are generally much tighter on tolerances that factory actions but their let some slip as well. The good smiths will go though the custom actions check everything. Maybe this new Shilen can give us the best of both worlds... but it any cheap.

Tim
03-24-2010, 10:15 AM
BrentWin

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer

.

Regardless of need...

I send all Savage actions to SharpShooter just to be blessed and have General Target approve them.

.

General Target waiting to bless the next action coming off the mill

[img width=300 height=450]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/brentwin/witchdoctor1.jpg[/img]
03-26-2010, 12:37 AM
joseph

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Before I built my 6mm Norma BR. with a new Savage Target action with the target accu trigger I called Schilen and they told me that the Savage target action did not need to be "blueprinted". They told me it was a waste of money. There was no gain in accuracy especially because of the floating bolt head. To make a long story short when it was finished it has shot a 5 shot group at 100 yds. of .084" its best and many in the .1s +.2s. I have also shot a few at 200 yds. in the low .3s.

joseph

PS: Give them a call and see if you get the same answer.
03-26-2010, 01:00 AM
geargrinder

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseph

Before I built my 6mm Norma BR. with a new Savage Target action with the target accu trigger I called Schilen and they told me that the Savage target action did not need to be "blueprinted". They told me it was a waste of money. There was no gain in accuracy especially because of the floating bolt head. To make a long story short when it was finished it has shot a 5 shot group at 100 yds. of .084" its best and many in the .1s +.2s. I have also shot a few at 200 yds. in the low .3s.

joseph

PS: Give them a call and see if you get the same answer.

Then give a call to anyone who's had a T&T from SSS and see what they say. My bet is that you'll be sending it to Fred.
03-26-2010, 01:38 AM
jo191145

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiny68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cort

If I buy an aftermarket action from BAT or Stiller or ..., the action should not need any additional work.

I know several benchrest shooters that have had their brand new out of the box customs tuned up.... Customs are generally much tighter on tolerances that factory actions but their let some slip as well. The good smiths will go though the custom actions check everything. Maybe this new Shilen can give us the best of both worlds... but it any cheap.

Tim

Tim
Just heard about this new Shilen action. Any idea where theres some more info floating around? Thnx
03-28-2010, 01:14 AM
memilanuk

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by geargrinder

Then give a call to anyone who's had a T&T from SSS and see what they say. My bet is that you'll be sending it to Fred.

I've got one Target Action trued and timed by Fred, with the Evo trigger. And I've got my (more or less) stock 12 F/TR I took to Bisley. Both have the firing pin hole bushed by Gre-Tan. The first is wearing a 30" Rock 5R barrel in 6 Dasher in a full-tilt-boogie aluminum F-Open/BR stock, the latter in the factory stock (bedded) with a factory barrel.

I'm not entirely convinced the former is *that* much more accurate than the latter. In theory, it should be. In practical application on the target... I'm not really seeing it. Sometime in the near future I plan on screwing a Brux 30" heavy Palma taper .308 Win barrel on there and trying it ala F/TR... make it more of an 'apples to apples' comparison, as I definitely spend more trigger time shooting thataway. Then again, I lose far more points to wind than I do anything else...
03-28-2010, 09:40 AM
MSG Janoski

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

joseph,
I'd say Schilen's statement is more true than false. Understanding Savage's bolt head is paramount to knowing whether an action needs work. I've known several shooters that have had trued and timing done that really did not need it for accuracy.

What allot of gunsmiths do is just a "cleaning and polishing" on parts of an action that give the shooter that perceived feeling that something special was done.
03-28-2010, 10:08 AM
rfurman24

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

It may not "need" to be timed and trued but I guarantee there is no comparison between a stock Savage action (or any other factory) and a timed and trued action as far as ease of bolt cycling. The Savage bolts are a little sloppy in the raceway and I believe if it bothers you PT&G sells a bolt body that fits better.
03-28-2010, 10:59 AM
McKinneyMike

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG Janoski

What allot of gunsmiths do is just a "cleaning and polishing" on parts of an action that give the shooter that perceived feeling that something special was done.

Well Fred is not your ordinary gunsmith either :) I doubt that you will find very many if any that dislike the T&T service that SSS offers. It is not all about improving accuracy. Operation of the bolt mechanism is far superior to stock. After I get my new build finished it is going to Fred for the T&T of the action.
03-29-2010, 12:54 AM
joseph

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by McKinneyMike

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG Janoski

What allot of gunsmiths do is just a "cleaning and polishing" on parts of an action that give the shooter that perceived feeling that something special was done.

Well Fred is not your ordinary gunsmith either :) I doubt that you will find very many if any that dislike the T&T service that SSS offers. It is not all about improving accuracy. Operation of the bolt mechanism is far superior to stock. After I get my new build finished it is going to Fred for the T&T of the action.

Try this before you send it to be "T&T". Spend $7.50 for a "Bolt Lift Kit" from Stockade. It really makes a big difference in how the bolt feels. When you find out how much better your bolt works how about sending me your 100 bucks for saving you your money. ;) ;)

http://www.stockadegunstocks.com/accessories.html

"Aim small miss small", ;D

joseph
03-29-2010, 05:12 AM
McKinneyMike

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Already aware of this mod as it has been discussed ad nauseum and other people have similar designs (Domolite is one). Changes nothing with respect to the work that Fred does. If you don't appreciate the work, so be it. Most here do and understand the significance of it in terms of the overall improvement in operations of the action/trigger timing. To each their own.
03-29-2010, 09:42 AM
MSG Janoski

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by McKinneyMike

Already aware of this mod as it has been discussed ad nauseum and other people have similar designs (Domolite is one). Changes nothing with respect to the work that Fred does. If you don't appreciate the work, so be it. Most here do and understand the significance of it in terms of the overall improvement in operations of the action/trigger timing. To each their own.

OK already, we get it...you love "Fred"...But no one in this entire thread has said anything derogatory about Fred or his work.

Cort, so you're building a benchrest rifle, you mention BAT and Stiller then Savage so I'm assuming you're talking about a Savage PTA action if so I'd say no, it should not need any work, but if you go with Savage you'll make that decision! Good Luck with your build.
03-29-2010, 10:02 AM
bsekf

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

It is easy to bend the rails while removing that first factory barrel and that will have a impact on bedding and accuracy. When you have a action timed and trued, the rails are trued and it is timed. The bolt lift should/will be lighter and smoother, therefore you do not move the gun on the bags while reloading.

If you want some insight on why you have guns tuned read about the "Houston Warehouse" where Virgil King regularly shot <0.1 groups.

Bill
03-29-2010, 10:19 AM
jo191145

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Cort

If you want a trigger that goes down to 2-3 oz range you'll have to send it to Fred for T&T and his Evo trigger. Besideds that 7 ozs is as low as my Rifle Basix will go safely. I think thats the big determining factor.

I just got back my first T&T Evo trigger action from Fred. Don't know him personally or feel any particularily strange affection for the man ;D
Lisa seems a sweetheart in our email correspondence :D
Action works nice and trigger feels just fine. I do wish the trigger assembly could have been designed to fit a standard Savage action footprint without modifying the stock.

I threw this action and a new Benchmark 30BR barrel into the stock previously bedded to this action. Knowing Fred had trued the receiver face obviously this old bedding job was not quite right. Seeing as this stock was just temporary for fireforming brass I threw it in anyway. Full speed ahead damned the torpedoes.

Started to get worried about choosing to build my new score shooter with a Sav action. Was seeing all sorts of wierd accuracy issues.
Turns out I was just loading to high with cheap 125gn TNT's while fire forming. Dropped back the charge before quitting for the day.
Last group was .225 in some heavy winds and no flags. I slept much better last night.

I'm feeling confident now the Sav is competitive. Big thumbs up for Benchmark Barrels too. Who knows I might just be able to use cheap TNT's this entire season ;D
03-29-2010, 10:34 AM
McKinneyMike

Re: Does a target action need timing and trueing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSG Janoski

Quote:

Originally Posted by McKinneyMike

Already aware of this mod as it has been discussed ad nauseum and other people have similar designs (Domolite is one). Changes nothing with respect to the work that Fred does. If you don't appreciate the work, so be it. Most here do and understand the significance of it in terms of the overall improvement in operations of the action/trigger timing. To each their own.

OK already, we get it...you love "Fred"...But no one in this entire thread has said anything derogatory about Fred or his work.

Cort, so you're building a benchrest rifle, you mention BAT and Stiller then Savage so I'm assuming you're talking about a Savage PTA action if so I'd say no, it should not need any work, but if you go with Savage you'll make that decision! Good Luck with your build.

Maybe take a pill there chief. I am just saying what most feel on this forum. The gimmick fixes do nothing to improve the action, just make bolt lift easier. Do as you wish, but please hold off on the personal attacks. The T&T has nothing to do with Fred, other than he is the one that knows this procedure, as he is the one that came up with it. Sorry if that chaps you in some way. Get over yourself already.