Savage 12 BVSS 22-250 to 6mm BR build

Its March 17 and the modifications of the 22-250 to 6BR continue.

I attempted hand squaring the bolt lugs and polishing with several grits of Flattening stones. I indeed got it accomplished for bolt lugs however the receiver lug's would another problem so it was all in vain. I am sending it all to Fred Moreo at Sharp Shooter Supply to have bolt lugs and receiver lugs trued. Email communications have already begun when I can ship.

New Red Blade Target Trigger has replaced the old Accutrigger. IMHO it still needs more work to make it feel like a Bench Rest Trigger. Ill rig up my pulley system using fishing weights later to determine actual pull weight as I do not trust Trigger Pull tools offered today and why pay for them when string, pulley and fishing weights are more accurate and cost less than $10.

I temporarily fitted the barrel to the action and then set the barrel/Action/Trigger into the stock. Just for the heck of it. Had to work slow with lots of rest with my spinal issues. I also played around with the new to me Apha 6mm-BR cases just to arbitrarily see where head space is. Yes I have head space gauges, I was just messing around with the Alha Cases.

Still awaiting for the AtlasWorx Cheek Riser from Australia, so I do stock work. Its held up in Califonia awaiting US customs acceptance.

Here's is what the temporary assembled new 6mm-BR looks like.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/VTVHYMB/IMG-1769.jpg[/IMG]

Update 4-3-24

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ldsills

3-4-2024
update 3-6-24
update 3-9-24
update 3-13-24
update 3-19-24
Update 4-3-24
in progress or completed
1) i am in progress of the stagger feed mag box mods to accommodate a score high single feed part. Ill post picture of the box mods. completed see below
2) ordered a atlasworx cheek riser riser hardware from Atlasworx arrive today
3) ordered criterion 6br-norma stainless, 26 inch 1/8 twist, 11 degree crown, threaded, with thread cut and stainless barrel nut has been ordered today from jim at nss (northland shooters supply). Barrel was in stock. Having trouble finding 6br go and no-go gauge, i bought the nss. I also went ahead decided to try the apa gen 3, little bastard brake brake. barrel, gauges, brake, all arrived


needs done
1) trigger, ordered new trigger. Worked on sear and carefully polished all faces. Along with polishing the trigger, sear assembly retaining pin. Pull feels very crisp now and is comfortable for me when tested in the vice. red blade trigger arrived awaiting on sear.
2) bolt,lug polishing for lift easement, bolt face lapping truing email into sharp shooter supply for action truing and timing, ejector pin removal, etc. lift kit arrived and installed. Doesn't seem to add much? Noticed action lug surfaces appear to incompletely lapped response from sss. Awaiting answer on when to ship, 3-4 week lead time.
3) cut and inlet stock for atlasworx riser.
4) order petersen brass for barrel break in unless by miracle Lapua is found! ...completed! Petersen could not be found, purchase 100 brass cases of alpha munitions 6mm br brass with small rifle primer pocket from bullet central arrived 100 rounds Alpha found 100 cases of Norma from bruno shooters supply..arrived
5) order sierra 107g match kings or nosler 105g custom competition for barrel break in. arrived
6) order new 6br f/l dies and bullet seater... I plan on mixing and matching brands. (any advice on these so many options out there...completed! Decided on a forster ultra die set to get the ball rolling. Price drop online from $222.00 to $165.50 purchased direct. arrived
7) order small rifle primers

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Cut and Installed David Tubb firing pin spring. Sent action/bolt to Sharp Shooters Supply for bolt fluting truing and final timing.

March 24, 2024

Home brew bolt work is on the agenda now-a-days. As the trigger is done. The action still needs to be sent off Sharp Shooter Supply for truing and timing! Waiting to here on a reservation time.

I just don't like the way the Savage Firing Pin Spring bunches up in the bolt. If it looks like a worm and nearly extends beyond the Firing Pin Stop Nut diameter in the relaxed position. Imagine how much its bunched and allowing for drag inside the Bolt Body Tube when compressed. Just not good enough for me as I cannot control friction and each time the pin fires it has a variance on pin impact to the primer. See copied photo from the net to see the bunching I am talking about. BTW if the Factory Spring tension is around 28lbs compressed and not dragging.

I decided to go with a Tubb Precision Chrome Silicone Firing Pin Spring for Savage 110/112 to alleviate this issues. At least if it drags I am reducing the drag because of material composition. Tubbs Chrome Silicone vs Factory Carbon type.
https://www.davidtubb.com/index.php?...product_id=207

Another source for Savage 110 Firing Pin Springs springs I found is Wolf Gun Springs which offer a 32 & 36 Lb spring , but they do not provide a length. I had considered this spring and if it is the sane size as the factory spring I could trim it down in length and still achieve ~28lbs. I am sure a call would give you that answer.

Should the TUBB Spring not be to my liking I am out around $15.00 with shipping. Spring Cost online at Tubbs website is $5.00.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/vqwB3sP/Firing-Pin.jpg[/IMG]

Post a picture of that Tubb spring when you get it. I’ve searched high & low for the perfect replacement. Right now I’m using a Chrome-Silicon Flat Wire spring, which works in my set up, but can fail to ignite primers in others. Chrome-Silicon is my preferred spring material. Throughout all my firearm I try to find CS springs throughout. The Tubb spring Sounds promising, but I want to see it. I want to know how many coils specifically it has. The Wolff spring is out of the question. 32lbs is WAY more than needed. At 28lbs. the factory spring is already oversprung. The problem with cutting coils is it’s not reducing the weight. Making a spring shorter makes it stiffer & increases the spring rate. But for our application, in which we are looking for release energy, a cut spring has less preload(which is our mistaking it for less power), but more importantly, the less coils means less energy. Think of this: take two springs both the same diameter wire & both being 4” long. The only difference is one is 10 coils & one is 20 coils. Which will retain more stored energy upon release?

But I’m interested in seeing the Tubbs spring. Below is my spring assy. currently. You can see it’s a much better fit, a has very little of the “S” factor going on.
https://i.ibb.co/m0tfvbx/5-D604205-5...7-F41-B1-E.jpg

Dave, it is more than kinetic energy of the spring to meet some primer inch-ounce specification to ignite small and large rifle primers. Indeed we need to take into consideration the Kinetic energy of the firing pin not just energy stored in a spring to get to this kinetic energy of the firing pin or K; it is 1/2 the mass of the firing pin assembly and the velocity squared of the firing pin assembly. K = 1/2 * m * v2. since we cannot measure velocity use algebra and solve for v2.

Or the simpler way is just try increase the mass of the Firing Pin Stop Nut Washer. Simple stainless flat washers will do the trick. I dont have the exact dimensions of similar washers for fit but adding just 1-3 will predictably increase the velocity of the firing pin tip and its force in inch-ounces. I would think 5 test firings each time while inspecting primer denting afterwards will tell you if your at the correct mass to ensure around you achieve around 48 inch-ounces of small rifle primer force is exerted or 64 inch-ouces is exerted for large rifle primers.

Many bench guys have done this, with great results.

For further reading below is Tubbs study that will shed a lot more light on the issue and get you to perhaps smaller groups.
file:///Users/ldsil1/Desktop/Photos/DT_firing_pin_impact_studies.pdf

AS always, kindest regards to all!...Larry

I did this for the wife's 22 Nosler Savage 10.
https://i.ibb.co/4SMR79c/K3-II0127b.jpg
Detailed in this post:
https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...101#post523101

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocketvapor

I did this for the wife's 22 Nosler Savage 10.
https://i.ibb.co/4SMR79c/K3-II0127b.jpg
Detailed in this post:
https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...101#post523101

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Darn it, every time I post something its already been done in the past on this site. You guys are killing me! Hahahah

Tell me Rocket do you feel the thrust bearing type lift kit helped?

Also is the head of your wifes bolt bushed? I ask as getting the variance removed in the original fire pin hole will ensure a more precise anvil pressure.

For other readers factory bolt reamers leave to much variance in firing pin travel. Again friction and poor alignment of the firing pin effect precise contact with the primer anvil which is indeed an precision issue downrange. It has been proven will cause flyers. So it's not always a barrel issue with flyers. Manufactures know about the excess and its deliberate. They need this as they never know where they will get the next firing pin from. So the firing pin ends up seeking the the firing pin hole. While doing this drags on the throat of the bolt body. Not to mention the firing pin hole is large and the firing pin will strike the primer in different locations. Look at your fired rounds and you will see on the primer different strike areas how inaccurate factory bolts are. Bottomline if you get the bolt faced squared also get the firing pin bushed by somebody that really knows how to do it.

It's things like this that reminds me why I do not prescribe to "if it aint broke dont fix it" with regards to building a shooter from a factory platform.

Did not use the "88 cent thrust bearing" as a thrust bearing, just used the races as washers to kick up preload of flatwound spring.
I used the 1/4" Ceramic ball for the larger contact radius over a 5/32" ball. Milled into the 38 case head with a carbide dremel bit.

Pin will rattle easily. Doesn't seem to rubbing finish on pin.
Pin diameter is 0.068". Bolt head (is not bushed) will pass a 0.071"(-) gaging pin but not a 0.072"(-). Attachment 10562
Clearance is about 0.003+"

I LIKE the Ceramic ball/Carbide tip much more than the "Thrust Bearing Lift kit".
Not having great machining capabilities at home, the $17 carbide tip was easier.
It is not highly polished and won't show fringes with an optical flat. With no race under it I have about 0.080" recess, one race about 0.030" recess and with 2 races under the mic tip it protrudes about 0.020". The 10mm races fit nicely in the hollow of the BAS.

I drilled the cocking piece for a little shorter pin length.
Attachment 10563
Pin fall will be a little more with the 1/4x28 set screw mod but I will have to check for bottom contact.

Pin protrusion could be adjusted down to 0.040" or 1/4 turn less about 0.031".
Shaved about 0.005" off the forward end of the pin adjusting nut, 1/4 turn and ended up with 0.035" to 0.036".

I went back a few years worth of posts for these modifications.
Working on reading the entire forum :)

Good stuff Rocket. Gives me allot of food for thought. ITS ALL VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

I tried the 10mm thrust bearing under the BAS for better lift mod. Its fits well , but I think it's all waste as it just a grease holder. Bolt lift was not improved. At least I could not feel it. I did retime the bolt to the action.

March 26th 2024

With the old 22-250 hand tightened to the action I got a chance to test how my Magazine mod/ Sore High single follower install. The Ejector was removed and will remain that way. I used a dummy round for feed and ease of spent round, placement removal testing. No primer or powder just a case with a bullet tapped in. (Literally tapped the bullet in with a hammer handle as my coffee was getting cold and I was too lazy to swap out and install my bullet seater,,,Hahah)

Other thoughts: I am not sure for the time I spent on the Magazine/Sore High single follower mod; I would of been better off purchasing a nylon single follower adapter from MK Machining, sold on Kinneys Shooting Supply for $35.00 https://kinneysshootingsupply.com/sa...dapter-mk-499/ . Then sold my magazine, spring/follower combo for $25.00. Too late now as the ol' magazine just isn't what it used to be.


[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/Xtys9sc/IMG-1784.jpg[/IMG].

Would that be another use for a 3D printer :)
One of these days- - - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocketvapor

Would that be another use for a 3D printer :)
One of these days- - - - -

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That's another tool I've seriously considered but not bought. Used to have a 70W CO2 laser cutter and did a lot of things with it. But, unless there is a business for it then all the work of drawing and cutting/printing....

I'd probably just get a hunk of HDPE and 'carve it to shape.

OK, dumb move here.
Saw pictures of SA springs and ordered 2 of the Tubbs Springs.
Oops, Long Action.
Maybe one can be cut down.
Attachment 10590
Maybe someone can count turns from the picture.
I got two different number of turns.
Maybe best out of 3? :)

I bet 'He who shall not be named' could make it work :)

The Commander spring, a little light, works with the shims.

Not really number of turns issue unless the springs are same material and wire dia.

You don't want to cut it just on a whim, but, you can come pretty close. I'd cut it about 1/4" longer and then shorten as needed to make it fit. The worst that can happen is you ruin the spring.

If you had a stock LA spring you could measure the originals and shorten by same percentage.

Not now, but later, I'll trim some off one and compare preload to lift cocking pin off the notch and decocked to the factory SA spring.
Just to have some force numbers to compare.

Tubb Springs came.

I like them.

Here are the photos.
This photo shows the two springs with measured diameters. Instructions for install. Note instructions say do not cut to the length of the original spring, instead count coils on original spring and cut cut TUBB spring to the number of original coils.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/3h0hqXD/IMG-1786.jpg[/IMG]

This photo better reveals visually the diameter size difference. The large diameter is the original Savage. Small diameter is the Tubb.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/dktNgdj/IMG-1787.jpg[/IMG]

This Photo shows the difference in height after cutting. Darker spring is the Tubb. I used a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut. Very Easy
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/rMV8v0c/IMG-1789.jpg[/IMG]

Heres the DAVID TUBB chrome silicone spring installed. Cut to the instructions. Above is the old Savage Factory Spring. Its easy to see why the old spring gets bunched on the firing pin shaft. The new spring will eliminate any friction from the outer spring to the bolt firing pin hole. NOTE: instructions stated cut end (or open end) goes to the front of the firing pin.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/SK4vnJG/IMG-1790.jpg[/IMG]

Time will tell how it will work. Pin protrusion meets specs. Dry fires seem acceptable. Had to readjust the Target Red Blade trigger and safety adjustment screw. Bolt lift is easier (one finger) but is far from smooth. I suspect its the lack of smoothness is now because of the bolt lug to action interface. Entire Action is being sent today to Fred and Lisa at Sharp Shooters Supply for truing and timing.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/k3srtCP/IMG-1791-2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/PjKrxKR/IMG-1794-2.jpg[/IMG]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocketvapor

OK, dumb move here.
Saw pictures of SA springs and ordered 2 of the Tubbs Springs.
Oops, Long Action.
Maybe one can be cut down.
Attachment 10590
Maybe someone can count turns from the picture.
I got two different number of turns.
Maybe best out of 3? :)

I bet 'He who shall not be named' could make it work :)

The Commander spring, a little light, works with the shims.

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Rocket,

All of Dave Tubb's Savage CS (Chrome Silicone) springs are shipped for long action. You need to trim them. Instructions for trimming can be seen in my photos above. The instruction's iterate that they are not cut to factory spring length but are cut to the coil count of the factory spring.

Be mindful people that cutting like for like springs to length of original is acceptable. However, its not an acceptable practice for material difference, outside diameter differences and wire thickness varies. All of which develop the spring rate; which is often measured per inch for small springs in the USA. When in doubt contact spring manufacturer for recommended practices of spring cuts. Heres a great calculator. https://www.coilsdb.com/compression-spring-calculator/

I didn't read the instructions :)
Thanks.
Have a trip coming up and will be a couple weeks before another range trip.
Think I will set up 3 bolts.
The internal shimmed Commander spring, no external shim,
A stock spring, 38case/Ceramic ball and external shim,
The counted and cut Tubb's spring, ceramic ball and external shim.
I will try and measure preload to lift pin off the Notch, and at fired position of each bolt.

Will try with 41 primers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rocketvapor

I didn't read the instructions :)

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You have me smiling as I must be getting old. Not-so-many years ago I would not read the instructions either.
Post photos when you done. I am curious how many turns your original spring has. I say this as I have read some bolts lift easier than others and perhaps Savage changed fire pin spring vendors.

April 15th 2024
Been awhile for an update. 2 reasons for the slow down...

1- Because of the kind hints (Fred!) and funny comments by members; they brought to light my pain meds were making me a goofy, thus it was time to back off for awhile on the build.
2- My action has been with Savage Shooters Supply the last week for truing and timing, firing pin bush, covering the ejector hole, and bolt fluting to shed a few ounces. And anything else Fred could do to make it ready for local competitions. It will be in my gunroom tomorrow! Yeah!

Folks I cannot say enough about Lisa and Fred at Savage Shooters Supply. They were exceptionally kind and turn around time for my requested work was bar none.

3- I did retrieve my almost 50 year old Craftsman band saw from storage. (wow time flies) So far I managed to true the 1/4 inch 6 TPI blade to the guides. Next step is I need to build a jig for holding the stock level horizontally along the stocks centerline. The jig will include a larger platform to accommodate the smaller band saw table. (Ill post pictures)

Larry

Here are the photos of My Action and Bolt I received from Sharp Shooters Supply. I learned allot, such as why waste my time "trying" to achieve what others have perfected. DUH! Fred indeed perfected my my action, trigger and bolt. I just hope the work on my stock will compliment Freds expertise. Not to mention, It is my hope my other activities such as load development and subsequent target work will indeed reveal Freds superior craftsmanship.

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/bRqXwSy/0712-F572-F...FE-1-201-a.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/B3bBt9c/62106060-75...0-DC80-BF4.jpg[/IMG]

UPDATE 04/21/2024
Okay worked on the stock today. Need to get stuff done before spinal surgery on Thursday. Thank goodness for my 45 plus year old band saw as it height was a a little easier on the back.

Made a jig to start. No dimensions just grabbed some scraps that looked right and ended up with this. The key to my madness was keep the stock square to the table face and square to the blade. Indeed x and y axis need squared. I used the butt-plate as a guide for drilling holes for mounting. I used long construction screws and not the butt-plate screws. The reason is you need the longer screws to move the stock a tad to square it up. Also gun screws are scared to me I guess, they have their own specific purpose. For me the screw at the top of the stock anchored it and the bottom screw was my adjustment screw. Screws were angled a tad just so when it was level I could snug them up while they fought each other. Lastly was to secure the the forearm to the 1/2 plate to ensure I wouldn't get chatter lines while cutting.

Heres the jig. Nothing fancy as all it does it make the stock footprint bigger to fit the table saw top and also provide a means for squaring which is done by the screws.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/YdmsKCr/IMG-1829.jpg[/IMG]

Next mount the stock and square it up. Use tape to secure to forearm to prevent blade chatter. First photo was a mount and fit to the saw.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/fxR8B4Y/IMG-1820.jpg[/IMG]
Second photo I cut the base to allow for maneuverability of the stock mounted to the jig.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/rwvVnxP/IMG-1822.jpg[/IMG]
Here is the long cut completed and I am backing out the the stock/jig to do the short cut. Might seem some major blade wobble on the cut. It was just the tape and the photo angle.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/RPGLkkL/IMG-1823.jpg[/IMG]
Disassemble the stock from the jig and very carefully made the short cut. Heres the first results. Again the tape causes on to think wow what a sloppy cut.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/3RpnL1M/IMG-1826.jpg[/IMG]
However when the tape off you get result's like this that a rasp, a drill rotary drum sander attachment and elbow grease with sandpaper will clean up. The space at the butt will be haved when I mount the Atlas cheek riser. In the piscture its exgerated because the cheek piece is slid forward.
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/gdswn9J/IMG-1833.jpg[/IMG]

Love it! Can’t wait to see it all finished

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pdog06

Love it! Can’t wait to see it all finished

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Yep, Brings back a lot of memories. He is doing a great job!!

Nice work! When it comes to wood, I just make sawdust. LOL.

Here's imgBB tip, for any image you want to use, open the image, hover over "BBCode", select copy, paste that link where you want your pic to go and there won't be visible tags before and after your pic. ;)

https://i.ibb.co/K084j8K/group.jpg