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I received the Alliant RL-16 powder I ordered when it was in stock for about 15 minutes at Brownells last week. This jug is half empty! It’s hard to store and hard to pour from this huge thing. Eight pounds of CFE Pistol for Comparison.
Attachment 9233
WASTE! That’s the American way, isn’t it? :rolleyes: Why put money into the product, or pass on savings to the consumer, when it can be wasted on packaging…
They use the same container for all powders. Some are denser than others. Since it is sold by weight the volume varies. Cuts down on the cost of forming and inventorying multiple containers.
ps: it is made in Sweden. Not sure where the end use containers are filled.
Save empty 1# and 8# powder containers and relable them for new powder. Make a big funnel out of an empty bleach bottle, and transfer powder to more manageable containers.
^^this.
I kinda 'standardized' on Hodgdon powder bottles. The labels remove easily. When I empty a container I refill it from the jug using a funnel.
It is kinda interesting how much the density of powders is different. Sometimes the bottle is full and sometimes it looks half full, both with 1lb of powder.
I know you guys are careful and competent, but be careful with that practice. It was forbidden to reuse chemical containers or refill them where I worked. There was a local precedence.
At the same maternity ward I was born in, a nurse, three years later, made a bunch of baby formula using sugar from a relabeled container. Turns out the prior shift had refilled the container - from a larger container that had a partially missing label. It was salt. By the time they traced the problem six babies had died and several others had organ damage.
We all know the horrors of overcharges with Unique or Bullseye. If you do it, be VERY cautious. We need all the shooters we can keep.
Yep. Cleaned, washed, then relabeled when filled.
I, probably like many here, have many chemicals in the shop. Careful to not mix. When I use one type of bore cleaner, I clean it out of the bore with alcohol before using my Cu remover (they are not compatible). Then I use alcohol again to clean that out. And yes, I checked with the mfgs as to what was recommended.
Got some donuts from a church benefit once where that happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
This jug will hold 16 lbs of RL-16, its not just a little over size for coarser powder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
I do that too, but I usually buy a 1 lb container of powder, then order 8 lb jugs if I like it, so I have a 1 lb container with the original label on it. Unfortunately, I didn't save the 1 lb. container of RL-16.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
I stuck with one brand/size just for shelf space. I like having one size jug. The big ones go in a cabinet in the garage.
I need a better storage option for powder I keep the big jugs in a steel cabinet in the house, its not a safe, but SAAMI specifies a wooden box or locker. I finally made a box for primers, its made of 1" thick pine and will hold about 30,000. It sits on the floor in the hall closet, separate from the powder and factory ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
Attachment 9245
Attachment 9246
I am not that picky. Mine all go in a cabinet or on the shelves in the garage, primers in a drawer. I only keep one bottle at a time near the bench.
NFPA and SAAMI aren't law making nor enforcement entities. Best course of action is to check the laws of your state, county, and city.
For example, in Washington, RCW 70.74.340 covers storage and transportation of small arms propellants:Whereas RCW 70.74.350 addresses storage and transportation of primers:Quote:
Quantities in excess of twenty-five pounds but not to exceed fifty pounds in a private passenger vehicle shall be transported in an approved magazine as specified by the department of labor and industries rules and regulations.
Transportation of quantities in excess of fifty pounds is prohibited in passenger vehicles: PROVIDED, That this requirement shall not apply to duly licensed dealers.
Transportation of quantities in excess of fifty pounds shall be in accordance with federal department of transportation regulations.
Small arms smokeless propellant intended for personal use in quantities not to exceed twenty-five pounds may be stored without restriction in residences; quantities over twenty-five pounds but not to exceed fifty pounds shall be stored in a strong box or cabinet constructed with three-fourths inch plywood (minimum), or equivalent, on all sides, top, and bottom.
Quote:
No more than twenty-five thousand small arms ammunition primers shall be transported in a private passenger vehicle: PROVIDED, That this requirement shall not apply to duly licensed dealers.
Quantities not to exceed ten thousand small arms ammunition primers may be stored in a residence.
No issues with it in the garage? You have the same heat we get here in central Texas, but we have much higher humidity.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
Texas has pretty liberal ammo, powder and primer guidelines. State law actually prohibits municipalities from regulating possession or transportation of smokeless powder in quantities of less than 25 lbs. The same restriction applies to counties, but they can't regulate quantities less than 50 lbs. We live in an unincorporated area of the country so we're good. I just want to store powder and primers safetly.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest T
I was gonna say!:rolleyes: No way is that an 8lb powder bottle. I’ve never seen a 16lb. I only buy powder by the pound anyway.
Never had a problem with all of it in a garage. Dry heat :) Even did that when we lived in Phx. Metal garage door faced west. 110F common.
I never stored much powder and primers before. Now I think I should look up local laws (more than 25lb). Used to be pretty open out here. With the labs and research bases there were some "home businesses" who were storing hundreds of pounds of explosives of all types. They cracked down on that, and black powder was included in the rules. I think gun powder and such is not regulated but i need to look it up.
Wish it was that way here, instead, state law here gives power to county, city, and local entitities to enact more restrictive guidelines. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest T
Mn State laws
The possession, storage and use of not more than 1 pound (0.454 kg) of commercially manufactured sporting black powder, 20 pounds (9 kg) of smokeless powder and 10,000 small arms primers for hand loading of small arms ammunition for personal consumption.
apparently fire departments can come in and remove excess at your expense.
So I'm not allowed to buy a second can of black before I run out? Don't think I have black anymore anyways. Gave it to the needy during the shortage.
Yep. Fed rules (mostly transportation across state lines), state rules, county and city. NM classifies BP as an explosive and regulates it as such. The city restricts the sale of it. I still haven't found anything restricting primers or smokeless powder of any quantity.
I used to buy a lb, but with uncertain supplies, I've begun to stockpile. I have about 30 lbs of powder right now, but if RL-16 or H4350 is available in 8 lb jugs again, I will probably buy more. I'm working on more primers too, but locally since they are a lot cheaper without paying hazmat fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
Ernest T: Not to get off the subject of the oversize jug of R16 (which in my opinion doesn't make much sense), but curious what caliber you are reloading and using R16 in. When it first came out or I should say the first time I saw it at a gun show, I broke one of my reloading rules and bought a pound of it without checking its capabilities. Sort of an impulse buy! Anyway, I reload for 250 Savage in both Savage 99's and a Ruger 77 and have great experience with R15 using 75-87 grain bullets (Varget, 3031 also). Couldn't find much reloading info using R16 at the time with my choice of bullets. Called Alliant, Hornady and Speer. I thought R17 to be to slow for my needs and assumed that the R16 maybe a good alternative to the faster R15. Not much on the web or any other sources. Was advised that the R16 would work better for 30 caliber loadings and/or calibers with a better case capacity such as the .243. Anyway, around 2 months later I went to another gun show where the dealer who I've done business with for around five years and know allowed me to trade the R16 in for another powder. Haven't done much research on it since. Just color me curious.
I just selected one of the powders listed for 6.5 Creedmoor 140 grain ELD-M bullets in the Hornady manual. I had just taken up reloading again after a 30 year hiatus and things had changed... a lot. I bought one lb. of RL-16 and watched a lot of YouTube videos and read a lot of reloading forums and websites. It was a pretty steep learning curve, but I found a powder charge and seating depth that my Savage likes. I have a Savage Axis II Precision in 6.5 CM with a 22" barrel. I was able to get sub 1/2" groups with that first one lb. can, but couldn't find any more for 6 months so I bought two 8 lb jugs this time. I did a mini load test with this new jug and the results were petty much the same as last July when I started. Remove those thee flyers and that's 12 shots touching each other. I'm pretty sure those flyers are me and not the load doing that. BTW, I made these targets in Power Point and had them printed at the UPS store for $0.35 each. The center circle and squares were supposed to be 1' and were in PP, but printed they are slightly under 15/16".Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage 94C
Attachment 9263
This is one of my groups with RL-16 from last summer.
Attachment 9264
This is what Alliant says about it.
Repeatable long-range accuracy demands propellant that behaves consistently across temperature extremes. Alliant Powder® Reloder 16, like Reloder 23 and AR Comp™, accomplishes this world-class stability using TZ® technology. It manipulates the response of the material and resists the natural tendency to generate more pressure at higher temperatures and less pressure at lower temperatures. The Reloder 16 burn rate is slightly faster than that of Reloder 17, well within the 4350 burn speed band. This makes it ideal for traditional hunting cartridges such as 30-06 Spring. and 270 Win., as well as 6.5mm target loads and tactical applications where temperature stability is required.
- World-class stability across temperature extremes
- Contains proprietary de-coppering additive
- Excellent lot-to-lot consistency
- Formulation contains no DNT or DBP
- Made in Sweden for Alliant Powder
FWIW, I also print my own targets. I use card stock paper from the office supply store. A little more expensive but it holds up in the wind better. I also like to use a colored background, yellow or bright orange or light green. Bullet holes show up better.
Ernest T, what kind of front rest, and rear rest, are You using ?
I'll give the colored paper a try. For these I just used the paper in the printer which was between bond paper and card stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
I'm using the Caldwell Tack Driver bag in the front and a bunch of different ones for the rear. I carry two Midway tactical shooting bag, a large and small, a small flat bag and one of those bags with the ears that cradle the stock. I seem to put fill in and take it out of the rear bags almost weekly!Quote:
Originally Posted by GrenGuy
Nice groupings Ernest T. After I posted post #23 above several threads showed up at the bottom of the page including one I posted back in Oct 2019, the approx time I bought and returned the pound of R16, didn't think it was that long ago. Reread the posting I had posted when talking with Alliant powder tech, he had advised me that the R16 was better suited for .308, 30/06, .243, and other cartridges such as your 6.5. He advised that both the 250 and 300 Savage rounds that I inquired about (I also reload 300 Sav) didn't have adequate powder space to utilize enough R16 for adequate velocity due to the fact that they had shorter necks and the bullets sit down further into the case, both things decreasing powder space.
He also advised they hadn't done much in developing loads for either caliber due to the decrease in popularity among shooters and advised just starting low and working up an accurate load. Several did post of adequate results with R16 in the Savage calibers though that they worked up. I'm good with the powders I use currently. Couldn't say if Alliant or any bullet sellers have worked up and posted tried and true loads for the Savages. Curious---is your forum handle derived from good Ol Ernest T. Bass from the Andy and Barney Mayberry show. Love that old show. Have the first 6 season on dvd and watch when I really need to watch a quality tv show.
Yeah, Ernest T. Bass is the genesis of my screen name. He's one of my favorite TV characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage 94C
Picking a powder is somewhat a black art when you don't have access to test equipment to measure chamber pressures. I'm not sure what criteria the different companies use to choose which powders and bullets they develop loads for, but some of their selections defy logic. This one befuddles me, Hornady has loads for the same powder using 120 and 140 grain bullets, but not 130 grain. Logic tells me if it'll work for 120 and 140 grain, it ought to work for the one in the middle too.
I stopped trying to figure out why the mfgs use the powders, or the bullets, they do in load data. Could be as simple as, that's what they had available when they were doing the testing. They stopped cause they ran out.
Ford engineers 'discovered' the qualities of synthetic oil by mistake. They were doing a test of an engine on a Friday and needed to change the oil to continue. They had run out. The lead engineer remembered the Mobil rep had dropped off a sample batch of Mobil 1 so they loaded it up. After the "100,000" mile point they tore the engine down and were astounded to find the wear was half what they usually got. Invalidated the test but they took the synthetic stuff seriously after that.
So, sometimes things happen, just because.
RE16 shot quite well in my 6.5 and 22 Creeds. Availability, and playing with cast, are only reasons I haven't done more with it.
I repurposed a 1 lb. H4350 container for RL-16, it keeps me from having to wield that huge jug. The label should have been black, but I didn't want to use that much ink.
Attachment 9268
That's a bit more organized than me. I remove the label and use a silver sharpie to mark the black plastic jug.
I do use a black sharpie to mark the date I buy the powder.