Do I Really Need a 30-30 AI?

Pondering the need for a 30-30 AI over the tried and true 30-30 for a Contender carbine length barrel. I currently have a 10" pistol barrel in 30-30 I'm loading for and getting the itch to pair it with a matching rifle. I know this subject has been covered before in other forums, but thought I might as well resurrect it for old time's sake. After all, here it Indiana, there's not much to do in February other than ponder the next barrel to load for. Be glad to hear all your thoughts. I seem to recall that Bobby Tomek used to post a lot of data with the 30-30 and JA used to love his AI. Anyone care to chime in?

For starters, I’m happy to see this subject come up again. I never seem to tire of the 30/30 ai. Sure is a fun cartridge to work with, the casing has some cool factor and doesn’t require trimming for quite awhile. Actually, I’ve never had to trim mine because I started out with a couple hundred pieces and not many of them has seen more than a few loadings.

Mine was certainly easy to find a preferred load combination. Barrel started out as a rechambered factory 30/30 TC carbine, then I had it cut n crowned at 15”. Which I didn’t have to tweak the load any at all after being shortened. In fact I think my groups shrank.

I have both of them, with 2 carbines in standard 30-30, and another in the Ackley version.

In all truth, the standard 30/30 does about all i ever need of of a carbine, when handloaded with spitzer bullets & powders like AR-Comp, CFE-2223, and LeverEvolution.

The Ackley gives a bit more speed, so i guess if you think you might stretch the range a bit, the added speed & thump might be of some use. And, there is
a bit of cool factor in the AI's too. If building a new barrel, no price difference either way, so the only real cost would be the difference in price for a set of dies,
so i'd say go with the Ackley "just because". :cool:

Hey lets really throw a wrench in this topic and ask about the 309 JDJ also.

I'm still wanting one in a 24-ish" carbine barrel. I'm thinking that staying in a 165-ish grain hunting bullet (like a partition) would benefit from the larger case capacity of the JDJ?

Funny this thread should pop up today -- the very same day I noticed a Van Horn 30-30 AI on ebay. Someone should grab it before temptation gets the better of me ha ha.

I have had three 30-30 AI barrels: a special-run factory 23" SS barrel, a 24" Custom Shop barrel and a 26" from MGM. All were superb. But the plain ol' 24" 30-30 from Van Horn I had up until a couple months ago proved to me that the original format can and will do anything I could possibly ever need.

In a 24" barrel, a 30-30 can ring up 2800 fps with the superb Barnes Tac-TX 110 grain bullets or the Hornady 110 grain CX. It will do 2600+ with 125 grain Ballistic Tips and will approach 2500 fps with the 150 grain Ballistic Tip or the Speer 150 grain Gold Dot Bonded Blackout bullet. The AI will get a little more speed, but it's not enough to make a difference in the real world. The primary benefit of the AI is that the format promotes less case stretching and is better suited to the single shot format.

If you fireform brass in the conventional way, you have to consider the added expense of components for the FF loads. (Or you can form your brass from .375 WCF cases and have proper chamber-fitting brass from the get-go. And if it ever gets into production, .360 BuckHammer brass will be an option.) And yes, you can use 30-30 factory ammo to get AI brass, but of those I have seen or tried, most exhibited compromised case life due to stretching on the first firing since the case is not fully supported in this format.

I like the 30-30 AI...a lot. But the ol' 30-30 still has a ton to offer.

SlowPoke Slim-

I had the 23" 30-30 AI rechambered by SSK to .309 JDJ. My primary load was the 150 grain Ballistic Tip powered by 52 grains of N160. It did 2677 fps and was what I consider fairly mild in terms of pressure. But at that level, you definitely begin to notice the recoil more. With the 165s you mentioned, 2400 fps would be easily possible in a 23-24" barrel. I parted with mine solely because of the added recoil.

I remember that 309 you had Bobby. I'm just theorizing about a carbine cartridge that would augment the upper end of the big deer or elk spectrum. Not really looking for something to do the same thing my 7-30 Waters can manage already. Don't know if I should give up on the idea or not. Maybe go 338 JDJ instead? I kind of like the idea of a light weight (7-ish pound) big mule deer or elk rifle on a compact single shot platform.

I hear you on the recoil, my old 338 win mag would put it to you from the bench. More so than my 375 H&H (heavier) would.

I've thought about trying my 375 JDJ on a carbine stock (it has a 16" bbl), but the recoil as a handgun is straight back and pretty fearsome. Can't say I'm interested in that or breaking one of my carbine stocks in the attempt.

A 165 grain Accubond or similar at 2400+ fps would work well for elk. Heck, a good 150 at close to 2700 fps would shine as well. I think a .309 JDJ would be a great choice for the purpose you describe.

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Originally Posted by Normrep55

Pondering the need for a 30-30 AI over the tried and true 30-30 for a Contender carbine length barrel.. Anyone care to chime in?

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After you bought your very first gun, You had no need for any more. It just became a greedy want for more. It needs to be satisfied. Don't try to put the urge to rest with beer! Beer just creates a temporary hold on life and makes it take longer to acquire things that have more value then empty alum cans. If you want an Aluminum collection, Make it intake manifolds and valve covers! Now back to the real problem, Your lack of decisiveness on what caliber your new barrel is going to be. Can you give me even one reason you should not have a .30-30AI?

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Originally Posted by Blue Avenger

After you bought your very first gun, You had no need for any more. It just became a greedy want for more.

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Nah. A body needs a rimfire, a rifle suitable for the biggest critters you chase, a shotgun, and a defense pistol. THEN you start to get into luxuries.

And if you haven't played with a flintlock rifle or smoothbore you are missing a whole book; not just a chapter. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Bobby Tomek

Funny this thread should pop up today -- the very same day I noticed a Van Horn 30-30 AI on ebay. Someone should grab it before temptation gets the better of me ha ha.

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Someone must’ve grabbed it already, don’t see a V H barrel. But there is a Custom Shop carbine barrel listed.

You are right: It is already gone. The price was about $450. There's also a 7-30 Van Horn barrel being sold on ebay that gets my attention ha ha. In fact, there are a number of DVH barrels on there now. It looks as though Dave is cleaning out his inventory, though it is not him doing the actual selling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BT

Someone must’ve grabbed it already, don’t see a V H barrel. But there is a Custom Shop carbine barrel listed.

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I looked for it too, I guess it wasn't meant to be :smile-new:

Do any of us need a reason to acquire just one more barrel in any caliber? It's an illness. I can't seem to recover. And did I mention it's February.
Heading over to ebay now:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Normrep55

Do any of us need a reason to acquire just one more barrel in any caliber? It's an illness. I can't seem to recover. And did I mention it's February.
Heading over to ebay now:rolleyes:

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right, you owe yourself a valentines present!

Now ya got me thinkin again, Norm. I bought one of my nieces a new 30/30 H&R Handi Rifle many years ago. She deer hunted with me for about 5 years, got a deer each season, then completely lost interest. Her little rifle has been here and not used in a long time. I wonder if she’d ever notice if I reamed it to AI? Probably not. LOL I have a buddy with a reamer, now if I can talk him into loaning it to me again. He might even see this post. :behindsofa:

Well, there are no more 30-30 AIs by Van Horn, but there are a number of his other barrels on ebay again, including 7-30 and .30 Herrett among others. I don't know why I keep looking LOL...

Has Dave been cutting back on the barrel building, Bobby? Close to retiring?

Do I Really Need a 30-30 AI?

I thought so, so one day I sat there with 500 rounds of 375 Winchester brass in my shopping cart at Wideners at something like $10.95/100. Was going to order a MGM or Bulberry barrel. Why I didn't pull the trigger I'll never know. And then they were gone...

That seemed to jinx the 30-30 AI for me. Just never got around to it. Danced all around it with standard 30-30, 7-30 Waters, 307/308 AI Encore but never made it happen. Oh well with barrels from 22LR, 22 K-hornet, 223 AI through to 45 Colt and 45-70 and plenty in between my life never collapsed!

I haven't spoken to Dave for two years or more, so I couldn't answer that. I do know age is creeping up on him -- as it is with all of us LOL. Someone who's worked right alongside Dave is a forum member here. Maybe Mark will see this and chime in.

Dave is certainly an interesting character and has many unique stories to tell. A simple phone call to check on an order or ask a question can easily turn into an hour-long conversation.

If he's cutting back or retiring, I wish him the best as he certainly deserves it.

It used to be that the AI version held more advantage but, as has been mentioned, newer powders and bullet designs have allowed the plain old 30-30 to keep up just fine. That being said, I prefer the 30-30 AI. The extra bit of case capacity allows slower powder loads to push more velocity at Contender-friendly pressure levels. Brass life is nearly unlimited plus there's just a certain cool factor in the shape of the AI round. :)
I think if I were looking for a factory barrel I'd be happy with 30-30 but ordering custom, there'd be no reason not to get the AI. Factory ammo can be shot in the AI chamber and fire-forming loads with standard brass can easily be used for hunting and target work.