12BVSS new barrel (6BR)

Well, I finally got off the fence on this one. Been thinking about a 6BR barrel to replace my stock .308 (the .308 will go on my Axis and remain a cast bullet rifle) Wanted to wait for a higher end barrel but wait times are getting longer. Northland has quite a few barrels in 6BR in stock so I called them and settled on a Shilen select stainless 26" barrel. Got it in under a week. Also got the nut wrench and action vise along with go-nogo gages. And a new recoil lug.

Was all ready for a 'fight' to get the stock barrel off. Surprise! Came off easily. Cleaned out the action well to get rid of all the "factory grit". Applied some anti-seize and put the new barrel on. Easy peasy. Set headspace and ready to go. Almost took longer to mount the scope back up than it did to change the barrel.

Got some brass (Lapua) and bullets (Hornady 108 ELD match) and loaded up a ladder. CCI BR-4 primers, Varget. Redding competition seat die and Forster full length size die. 3rds each from 28.0gn to 30.0gn in 0.2gn steps.

This morning was supposed to be calm so drove out to the range. Wind was 5+ mph and it was spitting a few drops of rain every now and then.

I had 10 rounds at 28.0gn loaded for a break in (yes, I believe it helps and doesn't really waste any ammo). 1st rd-clean. 2nd rd- clean. 3rd round the patch had no sign of copper at all. Shot another 7 then cleaned and no copper sign. First 10 rounds went into 1.5" at 100yd. Not great, but, not unexpected for a new and cold barrel (and variable cleaning condition).

Then started the ladder. None of the 3rnd groups were over 1". Largest was 0.8". 5 of the loads were under 0.4". That surprised me. 28gn load was 2670fps. 30gn load was 2850fps. The 30gn load was one of the better ones.

So, I have a couple loads I'll set up for next time and shoot at my 'normal' 200yd and 600yd ranges. Might fiddle with OAL, but, these Hornady bullets seem to like a little jump (these were all 0.020" jump).

Clean up went FAST compared to my factory barrel. I used my normal technique. Several patches of bore cleaner (Ed's Red), bore brush, 4 wet patches and it was clean. Then I dried it out and used copper remover. Only took two patches until no more residue observed. I think this is a slick barrel.

So, if you are on the fence about changing out a barrel, I recommend doing it. I still don't like setting up scopes for some reason. ;)

PS Northland was an excellent choice. Very helpful and FAST service.

Good stuff Charlie. I’m a bit perplexed you don’t consider Shilen as higher end. I think most consider them among top tier barrel makers. Unless of course, you are referring to Brux & Bartlien as being the tip of the spear & all others below those two. Which I can certainly understand.

Glad you’re happy with the 6BR. Think it’ll be a good shooter.

Yep, to me top tier are Bartlein, Brux, Krieger (and very few others). Wait time from them was 6 months to a year for us mortals.

I figured that the Shilen will shoot better than I am able, so the extra cost of the premier barrels would be wasted on me. :)

I also confirmed that the recoil is far less than my .308 shooting the 155gn low drag bullets. Very pleasant shooting day.

The best bullets for 6BR in the Shilen bbl I have are sierra 107 SMK and 105 berger VLD. The trick in these days is finding them or any components. Yesterday in our local lgs noticed they priced BR4 primers at 18.99/100. Good luck.

It's always been a pleasure dealing with Jim. I'm leaning towards a 260 Remington barrel from him to replace my factory 308 barrel.

Our local Sportsmans got in a bunch of BR4 primers. I got 2500 of them, 2 boxes a day :) They were a bit over $8 a box. The std rifle primers sold out in a day and were just over $5 a box. Precovid here the BR4s were $50/1000.

I like SMKs, Lapuas and Bergers. SMK prices aren't horrible but the other two are getting up there. My only issue with the Lapuas and Bergers is they are very sensitive to OAL. When developing loads for the .308 I 'discovered' the Hornady AMax line. Not bad for as inexpensive as they were. So, I tried their ELD line. Moderate price. Tolerant of jump. And they usually hang right in there with the SMKs. Next up on the list will be the 103 ELDs, mainly cause the local store has them in stock.

Nice job! Am doing almost the same but in 7BR, 26" Shilen Select Match but James didn't have that one in stock, so it's on order. I sent dummy rounds to Shilen to have the barrel throated for the boolits I plan to use.

Yes, seeing components more & more now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GaCop

It's always been a pleasure dealing with Jim. I'm leaning towards a 260 Remington barrel from him to replace my factory 308 barrel.

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Yes, Jim cannot be beat for service and all other categories!
The 260 Rem is a great choice. For a hunting rifle, the straight 260 is outstanding. If You shoot a lot and reload, I like the 260AI. You can shoot factory ammo in it and Your 260AI case is formed. Thanks Mr. Ackley. The AI case provides maybe 100fps more velocity. But the main advantage is case life. The straight cases tend to grow a lot. The 40deg AI shoulder all but eliminates this. Ga, You’ve been around a while, if I telling You what You already know, maybe someone else can benefit from My Arrogant Opinion??

I agree with above.

I also like the 103 V tac automated bullets from Vapor trails, they are extremely consistent at a great price and Tom keeps plenty in stock.
The bad thing about 6 br testing at 100 yards is that all the rounds go in such a small area it’s tough analyzing targets, most of my testing is at 300 yards and beyond allowing separation between bullets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

Well, I finally got off the fence on this one. Been thinking about a 6BR barrel to replace my stock .308 (the .308 will go on my Axis and remain a cast bullet rifle) Wanted to wait for a higher end barrel but wait times are getting longer. Northland has quite a few barrels in 6BR in stock so I called them and settled on a Shilen select stainless 26" barrel. Got it in under a week. Also got the nut wrench and action vise along with go-nogo gages. And a new recoil lug.

Was all ready for a 'fight' to get the stock barrel off. Surprise! Came off easily. Cleaned out the action well to get rid of all the "factory grit". Applied some anti-seize and put the new barrel on. Easy peasy. Set headspace and ready to go. Almost took longer to mount the scope back up than it did to change the barrel.

So, if you are on the fence about changing out a barrel, I recommend doing it. I still don't like setting up scopes for some reason. ;)

PS Northland was an excellent choice. Very helpful and FAST service.

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Charlie you and I have chatted before on this subject. Pleased to hear you made the leap. I am still unsettled, 6BR or 6 ARC. Though I have recently been thinking of just rebarreling my Model 10 but staying with the 223 caliber in a heavy barrel with a 1:7.5 twist. That would allow me to move up to the heavy bullets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMW1954

Charlie you and I have chatted before on this subject. Pleased to hear you made the leap. I am still unsettled, 6BR or 6 ARC. Though I have recently been thinking of just rebarreling my Model 10 but staying with the 223 caliber in a heavy barrel with a 1:7.5 twist. That would allow me to move up to the heavy bullets.

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I also looked at the Dasher, 6x47 and 6CM. I didn't want the extra work of the Dasher and the 6x47 and 6CM seemed a bit too much. And, if I didn't have a 1000yd range handy I'd would have stayed with the .223. The 6BR just seemed to meet all my criteria the best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by South Prairie jim

I also like the 103 V tac automated bullets from Vapor trails, they are extremely consistent at a great price and Tom keeps plenty in stock.
The bad thing about 6 br testing at 100 yards is that all the rounds go in such a small area it’s tough analyzing targets, most of my testing is at 300 yards and beyond allowing separation between bullets.

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I'll have to look those up.

Yep, I normally do development loads at 200yd, but, I figured my first groups would be kinda out of whack given a new barrel and break in. I was just trying to get a velocity/load curve. I never thought I'd see sub 0.5" groups on the first outing. It was a nice surprise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

I also looked at the Dasher, 6x47 and 6CM. I didn't want the extra work of the Dasher and the 6x47 and 6CM seemed a bit too much. And, if I didn't have a 1000yd range handy I'd would have stayed with the .223. The 6BR just seemed to meet all my criteria the best..

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My two mentors are now shooting a 6BRA and a 6 Dasher.They both are pushing me towards the 6BR. I understand their reasoning though I am still interested ti the 6ARC in a bolt gun or staying with the 223 that I already have experience with. Not to mention I am already set up to reload the 223 but not a 6mm.

I almost went with the 6BRA. Maybe one day. It seems to be a bit more consistent than the 6BR and even the Dasher. Nice thing is if I want to change I just need someone to run a reamer in the chamber.

And, yeah, that Redding Competition seat die and Forster size die aren't that cheap. Other than those it's just a matter of getting some bullets and brass. Seems lots of places have 6mm bullets and Lapua brass. Uses the same small rifle primers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GrenGuy

Yes, Jim cannot be beat for service and all other categories!
The 260 Rem is a great choice. For a hunting rifle, the straight 260 is outstanding. If You shoot a lot and reload, I like the 260AI. You can shoot factory ammo in it and Your 260AI case is formed. Thanks Mr. Ackley. The AI case provides maybe 100fps more velocity. But the main advantage is case life. The straight cases tend to grow a lot. The 40deg AI shoulder all but eliminates this. Ga, You’ve been around a while, if I telling You what You already know, maybe someone else can benefit from My Arrogant Opinion??

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Yes, I'm familiar with the AI cartridges having built a 223 AI 6 years ago. I didn't consider an AI chambering this time because of wait times for a barrel versus what's in stock most places.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

I almost went with the 6BRA. Maybe one day. It seems to be a bit more consistent than the 6BR and even the Dasher. Nice thing is if I want to change I just need someone to run a reamer in the chamber.

And, yeah, that Redding Competition seat die and Forster size die aren't that cheap. Other than those it's just a matter of getting some bullets and brass. Seems lots of places have 6mm bullets and Lapua brass. Uses the same small rifle primers.

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I built a 6 BR 7 years ago and used it in local 600 yard matches. Excellent cartridge, mild recoil and excellent with 107 grain pills.

6 BR is definitely the easy button, very competitive and super accurate, checking the notes I’ve made the little cartridge likes plenty of neck tension and I (do not) anneal these cases rather let them work harden a bit they virtually last forever.

That is excellent news, cause I have never annealed cases. I guess I can continue on in my methods.

Have some more loads to try out tomorrow. Will also stretch it out to 600yd to see how it does.

Well, didn't get to 600yd. Wind was up a bit and the long range benches were occupied.

So, went back to 300yd range. Did some groups at 200yd to compare things. Did discover the 103gn ELDX seemed a bit better than the 108gn ELDmatch bullets. Still not a clear choice between 28.8gn and 30gn powder. Fun times. Worst group was just under 1MOA. Most were close to 1/2MOA. Had one 0.7" group at 200yd and a 1.3" group at 300yd (the other 300yd group was 1.6"). Since the wind was blowing 5-10 cross this all kinda surprised me.

The other thing of interest is the extreme spread on velocity was only 25fps and sd of 7. Not too shabby just starting out.

There is a low node around the 28.8 ish and s higher node between 29.6-30 after 30 gr. and depending on weather and freebore you will hit pressure with one group super small then the next will shift, and become erratic.

Thanks. That is what my velocity ladder showed. 28.2gn/2680fps, 28.8gn/2740fps, 30.0gn/2840fps were the node centers. Lapua and Norma factory loads for 105gn is 2789fps. Since I usually do not load at max I will keep at the 28.8gn load for future runs, especially since it seems to do just as well as the 30gn. Not like I am competing at 1000yd and need every fps I can get.

Shot some more today, also got to 600yd. 103 ELD-X bullets. A velocity ladder was fired and showed nodes at 28.1 and 28.9, so not far off from last batch.

I had loaded up some at 28 and 28.8 to see how they did. The 28.0gn stuff ran 2780fps, still with low es and sd. Also had what was for me a record group at 200yd, 0.48". This was followed by a 3" group at 600yd. So, am really happy with this setup. The 28.8 stuff ran 2850fps and had slightly larger groups, 1" at 200yd and 5.5" at 600yd. The wind was gusting ~10mph, but, it was from directly behind me so not much effect from it.

I put the .308 barrel on my Axis. What a difference in recoil. It weighs about a pound less, and with the larger bullets (155ELD-M) it seemed 'punishing' after the 6BR. Makes me even happier I did the switch. FYI, the Axis has a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock, pillared and bedded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

Shot some more today, also got to 600yd. 103 ELD-X bullets. A velocity ladder was fired and showed nodes at 28.1 and 28.9, so not far off from last batch.

I had loaded up some at 28 and 28.8 to see how they did. The 28.0gn stuff ran 2780fps, still with low es and sd. Also had what was for me a record group at 200yd, 0.48". This was followed by a 3" group at 600yd. So, am really happy with this setup. The 28.8 stuff ran 2850fps and had slightly larger groups, 1" at 200yd and 5.5" at 600yd. The wind was gusting ~10mph, but, it was from directly behind me so not much effect from it.

I put the .308 barrel on my Axis. What a difference in recoil. It weighs about a pound less, and with the larger bullets (155ELD-M) it seemed 'punishing' after the 6BR. Makes me even happier I did the switch. FYI, the Axis has a Boyd's Pro Varmint stock, pillared and bedded.

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Yes, how quickly we adapt to lighter recoil. I’m quite fond of the gentle “push” from 260 in my heavy bench gun.

Another range session 103ELD-x bullets. 28.0gn Varget 2780fps avg. 50rnds. Total es 25fps sd 8.0. Not great, not shabby.

First group at 1000yd, 9.0". Hit 6" gong 5 of 10 shots. Wind from rear quarter, had to aim 4-6MOA left to hit. Quite fun.

600yd I am now using soda cans for targets. About 3" wide so it tests my wind dope skills. Hit 5 of 6 shots. The 5" gong at 600yd was 10 for 10.

I am very happy with this setup. As mentioned before, my shooting skills still need some work to be more consistent. I noticed again today that I get lazy when setting up for a shot sometimes. I did like that my wind skills have improved.

Good work, charlie b

By the way, I don't think you can ever get over 'getting lazy' or losing concentration about set up occasionally.
I still find that when I am shooting really well, I sort of expect everything to go right and begin to let my concentration lapse.
Sure enough, things begin to go south until I get myself under control again and get back to concentrating.

Lately, when I am shooting well, I have become more cognizant of that trait and try to avoid letting my concentration lapse. It often works, but it doesn't always.

Thanks. That is what I observe too. When I start shooting well I 'get into the groove'. It lasts for a while, then it all goes away. Suddenly, it seems, I can't find the position again or smoothly engage the target. If I am smart that day, I stop, get up and walk around a bit to see if I can 'get it back'. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't.

Thats good shooting for only a starting load of powder, most br run closer to 30 gr of Varget . 1000 yard shooting with a 6 mm can be a struggle in the wind and even more so with low charges.

Fine shooting there Charlie. Shooting like that keeps you coming back for more!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by South Prairie jim

Thats good shooting for only a starting load of powder, most br run closer to 30 gr of Varget . 1000 yard shooting with a 6 mm can be a struggle in the wind and even more so with low charges.

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I understand. The 103 ELDX wants to go 'much' faster with same charge. The 103 bullet and 28gn load gives me 2780fps vs 2680fps with the 108ELD match bullets. 28.9gn with the 108 gives me 2750fps.

So those are the two loads I use. The 103 at 28.0gn and 108 at 28.9gn. Ballistics for these two loads is essentially identical.

I know I am giving up about 150fps. Not that big a deal for me. Same reason I didn't feel the need to get a Dasher.

This is not for competition, only for fun. Hitting a milk jug at 1000yd consistently is my 'need' :) It pushes me to learn how to judge wind better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

Fine shooting there Charlie. Shooting like that keeps you coming back for more!

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Thanks, and yes it does!! :)

Just wanted to add how much I like this combination. It is still shocking to me that a tiny little cartridge like this can be so accurate at such long ranges.

The 103gn ELDX bullets are still more accurate than the 108gn ELD match bullets. Can't figure it out. Both bullets are essentially the same shape and length. The only thing I can come up with is that the CG of the bullet might be a little different, although I see no signs of instability with either of them. Oh well.

1" groups at 200yds seem to be the norm with the 103. Was playing at 1000yd with it. When I got the wind right it was hitting an 8" target regularly. At 600 I shot 5rnds at a target and had a 3.5" group. Might have been better if I hadn't jerked one. Four rounds went into 1.75"!

I have expanded a bit and got some 90gn ELDX bullets and tried them this last week. While doing a ladder (15 bullets at 0.1gn increments) the first 5 and last 5 went into less than 1" at 200yd. A lot of change in vel, but, it also highlighted the nodes for me. So will explore the 2980fps and 3050fps loads.

Have to look into the Vapor Trail bullets now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by South Prairie jim

I also like the 103 V tac automated bullets from Vapor trails, they are extremely consistent at a great price and Tom keeps plenty in stock.
The bad thing about 6 br testing at 100 yards is that all the rounds go in such a small area it’s tough analyzing targets, most of my testing is at 300 yards and beyond allowing separation between bullets.

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Jim,

THANK YOU!! I got some of the Vtac bullets and just finished shooting a few groups. Short story is I shot the smallest 200yd group ever for me, on the first loads with these bullets. 0.49" at 200yd!! Three of the rounds in one largish hole.

I will be getting a lot more of these.

Longer story. As above I have had great results with the 103gn and 90gn ELD-X bullets from Hornady. Why the 108 ELD match bullets don't do as well remains a mystery. I bought the Vtacs just to see how much better they might be. The price was indeed good, even for just the 100 I got to do some load development.

First time out I didn't expect much. It was cold, low 30's, but no wind. I had 20 of the 103ELDX bullets as a 'control'. For this initial shooting I decided to use the best ELDX load, 28.0gn Varget, and then go up and down 0.2gn. So the Vtacs were 10 each at 27.8, 28.0 and 28.2gn. The ELDX's did just as expected, 1" and 1.2" at 200yd. The 27.8gn load was not promising. 1.5" and almost 2".

Then the 28gn load. First 5 rounds went into 0.9" and one of those rounds was pulled a bit. I took a minute here to calm down a bit and fired the next 5. The first bullet hit within 0.2" of the point of aim. The second was touching it. The third I felt myself twitch just a bit and the round went a bit left. The 4th round was touching the first two and the fifth was again to the left but not as far. 0.49"

The 28.2gn load started out with two rounds touching each other. Unfortunately the rest went into 1". The next 5 were the same, 1". Still, not shabby at all.

To say I was shocked is an understatement. First, that the bullets are that good. Second, my skills have improved. I can now see when I am doing something wrong, like rushing a shot, not holding the aimpoint precisely, a sideways force on the trigger, etc. In the past I have described myself as a 1/2MOA shooter. To be honest I still am, at least until I can do better on a more consistent basis.

So, just to reiterate, those Vtac bullets from Vapor Trails are now my go to bullet for the 6BR. The bonus is they are close to the same cost as the Hornady bullets.

Mind=:boom:Charly!

Awesome, awesome stuff brother. What gets me, is if you simply look through some various forums, Calguns, AR15, Highroad… etc… Accuracy like this is common place….. right? ;) Oh yeah. Everyone knows the AR10’s/15’s are doing this.. People buy surplus Swiss rifles and claim accuracy of this nature. And let’s not forget that just about any M1 Garand will easily post groups like this. “Why, my cousin just did a similar group with his M14 at 300 yards recently!” LOL!

Seriously, to those of us who know just how difficult this is, I’m sure I’m not not the only one impressed Charlie. I am incredibly happy posting accuracy like that at 100yds! Sub .5MOA! Forget 200!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

Jim,

THANK YOU!! I got some of the Vtac bullets and just finished shooting a few groups. Short story is I shot the smallest 200yd group ever for me, on the first loads with these bullets. 0.49" at 200yd!! Three of the rounds in one largish hole.

I will be getting a lot more of these.

Longer story. As above I have had great results with the 103gn and 90gn ELD-X bullets from Hornady. Why the 108 ELD match bullets don't do as well remains a mystery. I bought the Vtacs just to see how much better they might be. The price was indeed good, even for just the 100 I got to do some load development.

First time out I didn't expect much. It was cold, low 30's, but no wind. I had 20 of the 103ELDX bullets as a 'control'. For this initial shooting I decided to use the best ELDX load, 28.0gn Varget, and then go up and down 0.2gn. So the Vtacs were 10 each at 27.8, 28.0 and 28.2gn. The ELDX's did just as expected, 1" and 1.2" at 200yd. The 27.8gn load was not promising. 1.5" and almost 2".

Then the 28gn load. First 5 rounds went into 0.9" and one of those rounds was pulled a bit. I took a minute here to calm down a bit and fired the next 5. The first bullet hit within 0.2" of the point of aim. The second was touching it. The third I felt myself twitch just a bit and the round went a bit left. The 4th round was touching the first two and the fifth was again to the left but not as far. 0.49"

The 28.2gn load started out with two rounds touching each other. Unfortunately the rest went into 1". The next 5 were the same, 1". Still, not shabby at all.

To say I was shocked is an understatement. First, that the bullets are that good. Second, my skills have improved. I can now see when I am doing something wrong, like rushing a shot, not holding the aimpoint precisely, a sideways force on the trigger, etc. In the past I have described myself as a 1/2MOA shooter. To be honest I still am, at least until I can do better on a more consistent basis.

So, just to reiterate, those Vtac bullets from Vapor Trails are now my go to bullet for the 6BR. The bonus is they are close to the same cost as the Hornady bullets.

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Yeah, they shoot pretty well to say the least. Tom specs out the mold used for these bullets to maintain quality control, I could tell you who produces them for Tom but I won’t.
The 28.2 ish node you are enjoying is just the beginning of the performance level available, when you continue up the ladder you will find another node starting around 29.8 going as far as 30.1.
Welcome to a new world of accurate shooting, be safe , have fun and keep those VTac close to the lands.
jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by charlie b

Jim,

THANK YOU!! I got some of the Vtac bullets and just finished shooting a few groups. Short story is I shot the smallest 200yd group ever for me, on the first loads with these bullets. 0.49" at 200yd!! Three of the rounds in one largish hole.

I will be getting a lot more of these.

Longer story. As above I have had great results with the 103gn and 90gn ELD-X bullets from Hornady. Why the 108 ELD match bullets don't do as well remains a mystery. I bought the Vtacs just to see how much better they might be. The price was indeed good, even for just the 100 I got to do some load development.

First time out I didn't expect much. It was cold, low 30's, but no wind. I had 20 of the 103ELDX bullets as a 'control'. For this initial shooting I decided to use the best ELDX load, 28.0gn Varget, and then go up and down 0.2gn. So the Vtacs were 10 each at 27.8, 28.0 and 28.2gn. The ELDX's did just as expected, 1" and 1.2" at 200yd. The 27.8gn load was not promising. 1.5" and almost 2".

Then the 28gn load. First 5 rounds went into 0.9" and one of those rounds was pulled a bit. I took a minute here to calm down a bit and fired the next 5. The first bullet hit within 0.2" of the point of aim. The second was touching it. The third I felt myself twitch just a bit and the round went a bit left. The 4th round was touching the first two and the fifth was again to the left but not as far. 0.49"

The 28.2gn load started out with two rounds touching each other. Unfortunately the rest went into 1". The next 5 were the same, 1". Still, not shabby at all.

To say I was shocked is an understatement. First, that the bullets are that good. Second, my skills have improved. I can now see when I am doing something wrong, like rushing a shot, not holding the aimpoint precisely, a sideways force on the trigger, etc. In the past I have described myself as a 1/2MOA shooter. To be honest I still am, at least until I can do better on a more consistent basis.

So, just to reiterate, those Vtac bullets from Vapor Trails are now my go to bullet for the 6BR. The bonus is they are close to the same cost as the Hornady bullets.

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Charlie,
What is the twist on the barrel? Do you think that has something to do with the better performance with the lighter bullet? Have you looked into the DTAC from Tubbs?

Jim,

Thanks. I may try the higher node with these just to see. I hit it with the 103ELDX bullets and performance was about the same, but, that might have been just me or the bullet. Bullet jump I haven't messed with either. I set them the same as the Hornady's, I think .010" but not sure. To me it doesn't matter who makes them for Tom. As long as he can still get them made I'll be happy.

I will make another couple of excursions from this load and see where it goes. Even if this is the best one I'll be happy as a pig in ---. To get any better I will have to improve my skills...a lot. As you know, the difference between 1/2MOA and 1/4MOA is a wide gulf when it comes to the shooter.

prdatr,

No, I have only used the Hornady's and now these. Tubb's website only shows DTAC loaded ammo (Sierra bullets). FWIW, the Vapor Trail bullets were $55/100 delivered to the door. Hornady 103's were just over $50/100 last time I saw some on the shelf. They are lower mail order if you can get shipping cost down.

Barrel twist is 1:8 which should be good for 108gn bullets. They are the same length and shape (as far as I can tell) as the 103's so not sure what the problem might be. Maybe it is a CG issue due to a different jacket thickness (103gn is considered a hunting bullet and 108gn is not). Could be I am off the node a bit with the 108s, although load workup procedure was same for the two bullets, ie, other powder loads resulted in larger groups.

Dave,

Thanks. Yeah, 1/2MOA has been a hurdle for me, both in loading and shooting. It still is. Not sure I will ever equal that group again, but, it was great seeing all those bullets go to the same spot! This is kinda like the 1/2MOA cast bullet targets I have, or the >1MOA cast bullet targets at 500yd. It is fun when the planets align.

An off topic interesting experiment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHZxFLsDLlE

Yeah… but I’m talking about .5MOA @ 100yds. Charlie, your .49” group is .23MOA at 200yds! That is impressive, I don’t care you ya
are! :cool: Not something I can do, even with the equipment. And don’t feel the least bit bad admitting it. I can hit a the target I want no problem; even having lost the edge I once had. But that is next level. What’s more.. shows that Savage is capable of hanging with the best. (Regardless of $Expensive$ rifle guys admitting it, LOL!)

If You like the Vtac’s, You would really like Tom’s hand made customs. Cost considerably more and anyone just ordering them now would be at the back of a year long waiting list. Bart’s Bullets are excellent also, but same situation.

But Berger Hybrids and VLD’s are fine for Steel and Milk Jugs at 1,000 yds. I prefer Hybrids when I can get them.

In my experience, the 108’s and heavier are too heavy for the 6mmBR, for the accuracy You’re looking for.

If You want to move up, I suggest the 6mmBRA, not the Dasher. Above Dasher power, I would go with the 6GT or the 6x47. That’s where the 108 and heavier 6mm pills come to life in My book.

Just Me talkin here :)

edit: and Jim is right, the extra MV at the higher nodes will be welcome in the wind and at 1,000yds.

Big improvements charlie b!

It looks like you are confident with your new rifle, and it must fit you well.
A good fit makes you more comfortable and minimizes some of the variations that we all exhibit.

What powder are you using and are you loading the same powder charge for the 103s and the 108s.
That might change the harmonics of the two bullets in the barrel and move your node.
I find that even different bullets of the same weight require that I tune my loads, but, as you know, I load to achieve a specific exit time to optimize the harmonics.
When I get within 0.005 msec of the exit time, I seem to get the optimum out of each type of bullet.
Some bullets perform better than others, but the differences in good bullets like the Hornady ELD-Ms are usually small.
Of course, out past 200 or 300 yards, a lot of other factors come into play and the bullet ballistic coefficient and bullet shape begin to really differentiate performance.

The accuracy difference might not be the 108 bullets, per se, as much as you need to tune the load a bit to account for whatever differences there are between the 103 and the 108 grain bullets.
The two bullets might look the same, but they are probably different in length or in the base to ogive measurement which would change the jump.

With my 6.5mm CM, I recognized a difference in accuracy between the 143 ELD-X and the 140 and 147 ELD-Ms. But when I adjusted for it, the ELD-X held its own with the two ELD-M bullets.

Never mind about the powder, I found you are using Varget buried in the text of post #1.
Sorry for the dumb question when the answer was there all the time.

Yep, Varget for all of this. :) The 108gn had a node at the 28.9gn point, which was almost the same vel as the 103gn at 28.0gn. I tried both at the higher node as well and had same difference in accuracy, but the 108s at the higher node had some sticky cases. Still is a bit baffling. It is probably just a twist rate and CG location issue. The rifle does fit better since I modified it with an adjustable cheek piece. I also got some N150 today, mainly for my cast bullet loads, but, might try it in this gun as well.

Dave, Thanks. Yeah 1/4MOA is new territory for me. I am hoping this is not a one time deal. After all, if you shoot enough eventually the bullets will go in the same spot :)

Gren, I think you may be right about the 108's. I don't have any more and probably won't ever buy anymore with the Vtac's doing this well. I used Bergers in my .308 and they did well, but, only if touching or jammed a bit into the lands. Given the cost I will stick with the Vtac's. And I will try the higher node with these to see how well they do. Since I don't compete I am happy with these and the lower vel of the BR vs BRA or other cartridges. I did think about the choice a lot before I bought the barrel. It was a tough decision between the BR, BRA, 6x47 and 6CM. The 'moderate' velocity levels (and resulting longer barrel life) along with no case mods was why I stuck with the BR.

So, I was out this morning with the Vtac's again. I fired the 28gn load again. As I suspected it was not a 1/4MOA group :) but it was 1/2MOA.

I also loaded up 29.6, 29.8, 30.0 and 30.2gn loads. Those were a bit interesting. The upper two loads kinda 'overlapped' each other in velocity. They were still a bit less than MOA. I'm used to a 'bad' load being 2MOA :) The 29.8 load had an es of 19 and sd of 6, as well as two 5 shot, 0.7" groups at 200yd. Avg vel was 2925fps.

Will go out next time and try the 28.0 and 29.8gn load against each other at longer range and see what they do.

It is almost 'fun' to see mistakes in shooting. When the crosshairs move, so does the bullet. Amazing. :)

Meanwhile I need to order a bunch more of these bullets. Glad Christmas is coming :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GrenGuy

Bart’s Bullets are excellent also, but same situation.

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For Barts Bullets (Bart Sauter) I'll recommend at this time his 68 gr Avenger. The Tack Driver
match that was just held In South Carolina Invites the top gunners of all disciplines to compete
at 300 meters, both score and group. With the 68's Bart won over 89 shooters and fellow shooter
Jerimiah Keefe took 5th overall using them.....

I have to say, this thing is addictive. I did try the higher node and found it at 29.8gn Varget, 2925fps (es 16, sd 6). And not unusual to have 5 rounds with an es less than 5fps. The problem is that I find that if my groups aren't much less than 1/2MOA I am very disappointed. For example, I had a three shot group at 600yd, with all three touching (!), and then messed it up with the next two, so the group was a 'huge' 4" ;)

LOL now I totally understand the 'rabbit hole'.

So, last one on the 103gn Vtac's. Wind was blowing just a little, a bit less than 5mph. My 600yd target had 4 in 2" and then one off to the right about 6in, at exactly the same elevation as the other 4. Obviously I screwed the wind call on that one. The 1000yd target was a 10" group. Once I figured that out I hit the 6" gong 2 out of 5 shots. Not too shabby for me in some wind. Yeah, I am hooked. :)

But, I also got my new bullet mold. From NOE a 108gn. Will report back when I get some results from them.

Nice shooting..