Put on another stock that had been shown to be free of the problem with same 243.
Did not touch scope. Both stocks are wood.
Problem fixed.
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Put on another stock that had been shown to be free of the problem with same 243.
Did not touch scope. Both stocks are wood.
Problem fixed.
Well...if you have a fairly predictable cold bore, 1st shot, try hold over on that first shot shot. Problem solved, LOL!
And I thought it was just me....LOL I was out to the range early this morningQuote:
Originally Posted by wbm
to do a short ladder with the new Reloder 15.5. I did a general barrel clean just
to remove carbon and check for copper. Hoppes first, patch it out, then Sweets
to check for blue. Patch out again.....I shot five of my match loads of IMR- 4166
that bugholes at 100. The five shot group was a dismal 3/4" with the first 2 going
high/left......After shooting my ladder of R-15.5, I let the barrel cool then fire 4 of
what was left of the match ammo. A perfect and round bug hole.....I cant say for
certain but as many patch's as I run through clean, I believe you never truly get
all the oil/cleaner residue out due to tooling marks, and any fire cracking. And the
main reason I shoot a minimum of 5 fouler's before engaging sighters at a match.
Check out first post again.
I truly believe you are right!Quote:
I believe you never truly get
all the oil/cleaner residue out due to tooling marks, and any fire cracking. And the
main reason I shoot a minimum of 5 fouler's before engaging sighters at a match.
http://www.savageshooters.com/images/smilies/tea.gifQuote:
Well...if you have a fairly predictable cold bore, 1st shot, try hold over on that first shot shot. Problem solved, LOL!
+1 Really like that powder but cannot find any here!Quote:
IMR- 4166 that bugholes at 100.
Very easy to see if it has something to do with cleaning..... Stop cleaning it so much. :noidea: If dirty barrels shoot so much better why does everyone always want a clean barrel?
Possibly Stop cleaning your bore as often. Run a #9 or Kriol wet patch after shooting. Run a dry patch or three before shooting.
Life teaches us, well it tries to anyway, that "one size fits all" seldom is works...shoes or rifle barrel cleaning.
Quite a bit of chatter about cleaning barrels as of late. Some is good advice,
and some is absolute bullshit. Some of the BR matches I go to will see shooters
cleaning between relay's and not round count. These guy's are shooting in the
one's. Your barrel will tell you when to clean and not the internet.
I had the same issue while working up a groundhog load for my Axis .243. I stopped cleaning the bore, problem solved. I have not cleaned it since July. I've fired maybe a dozen shots since then and have not missed a groundhog.
I was taught by a guy.. who’s profession was to kill you on the first cold bore shot..
That a dirty barrel might not be as accurate but it was more predictable.
Cheers
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kind of on the same tract...
I have a Marlin 1895 45/70 made when Marlin was still Marlin.
It shoots very well, I reload Hornady 300 gr At 2550 fps.
The issue is similar. First shot very high at 100 yards with a clean barrel.
No big deal I shoot a fowling shot the day before, but.
With a fowled barrel, many time several shots, when the barrel is cold it shoots 5" high every time.
The rest will cloverleaf. YOUR first shot is the money shot.
What I do is sight in with a very cold barrel. I shoot a 5 shot grout at 150 yards with 30 minutes between shots, I always get a group under an inch, I just remember the next shots will be 5" lower. AND Yes the other shots always stay in sub MOA groups also. This never changes.
I better add the gun is scoped with a good Leopold scope.
That's precisely how I hit the woods for hunting season, with a one or two shot fouled bore then dry patched. Next round always went where I expected it to.
There is cleaning and then there is CLEANING. What are we talking about here?
+1 A very good point!Quote:
There is cleaning and then there is CLEANING. What are we talking about here?
Actually the purpose of the thread to start with was I wanted to show that the stock was the problem not the setup of the rifle itself.
Exactly!Quote:
I was taught by a guy.. who’s profession was to kill you on the first cold bore shot
Also I'm talking hunting rifles here...rifles you shoot and put away for weeks or months.
.
And if that guy was a Marine, he was taught by a guy that was taught by a guy that was taught by Gunny Hatchcock a very long time ago.Semper Fi!Quote:
I was taught by a guy.. who’s profession was to kill you on the first cold bore shot.
Everyone looks at it different.... If I had a gun that ever shot 5" different on the cold bore shot- then either the problem would be found or a new barrel would be installed.
You want to keep things consistent in your setup. Scrubbing the barrel down to bare metal creates inconsistencies... because it's going to begin to accumulate copper again and each shot will be different until it settles back in.
Do barrel maintenance- and address things before problems.... but over cleaning causes more problems than dirty barrels.
Often when chronograghing every shot the flyer can be nailed down with a significantly different speed. Cold bore shots for me as a rule were slower. While speed can pick up with a squeaky clean bore.
I weight sort all brass batches and with a couple of rifles used the heavy sorts as a cold bore case and colored the headstamps with a sharpie.
If you put in the colored ones in the magazine last it would be the first chambered and shot in a hunting sitiation. Normally the reduced capacity of the heavier cases would help increase pressure/velocity to help with consistency in the batch.
Chronogragh testing verified the "heavy" case viability in combating the slow cold bore shots.
By tracking velocities & flyers as a general rule all my cases in a batch are labeled/ numbered to further analyze target/velocity strays during case prep and inspections.
Capacity checks after the fact can and might confirm earlier problems.
[QUOTE=Whynot;493433]Everyone looks at it different.... If I had a gun that ever shot 5" different on the cold bore shot- then either the problem would be found or a new barrel would be installed.
I suppose this pretty much sums it all up.
LOL. Might want to do what I did and change stocks first. Less expensive. and labor intensive.
Well he did say, “find the problem”. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by wbm
Actually I said that. That was the point of the thread. I found the problem and fixed it. Need to read the thread a bit more carefully and I think you will see that
Plus a lot of people just don't read and "cognate" the purpose of the thread. Which was....sometimes you need to look somewhere besides scope, rings, bases, bad barrel, cleaning....etc.etc. In my case, it was none of those things...it was the stock!Quote:
Some is good advice, and some is absolute bullshit.
Fuj...Didn't you have a pet project going with a modified 284?
_.
So what did was the difference between the two stocks.
I believe there is a difference between a first round from a “clean” bore, as opposed to one from a fouled bore.
I wouldnt consider taking a gun hunting with a “ clean bore,” especially long range hunting.
I began to suspicion that about 60 years ago.Quote:
I believe there is a difference between a first round from a “clean” bore, as opposed to one from a fouled bore.
Don't know. I noticed that the first shot from the Birch stock was off...by 2"...at about 9:00ish So I shot other rifles and let the barrel cool. Next time 1st shot was a flyer. Same place. Third time same. So I wanted to know why that would be. That is when i began to test things as in the original post. The Birch stock is way older than the newer Walnut. Both were bedded. Actually I got a hint from looking at my shooting notebook and saw that the Birch stock never did shoot the same loads as well as the with the Walnut. The Walnut is opened up for a varmint barrel so I don't use it much. Have been shooting the same load with the Walnut stock enough to know it solved the issue.Quote:
So what did was the difference between the two stocks.
wbm.... This message is to be read in a "nice voice" so don't take it as insulting.....
If you want to control the conversation then write a book..... if you put it on a forum then you can't complain about where it goes. Also- you brought up cleaning in the very first post "One of the worst is a clean barrel/cold shot flyer." You think that a statement like that might lead to a discussion of cleaning when you are talking about flyers??
Lots of things can cause accuracy issues.... but a stock is not usually the cause of a flyer. Piss poor group- yes. Point of impact changes depending on how much pressure is on it- yes. But what is happening and changing in the stock that causes the first shot to impact differently and then magically fixed for the other shots? A stock problem will usually show up at different times and in different shooting positions- not just a first shot flyer.
LOL...I hear ya and it is indeed. Got a 4-12x50 last year and liked it so well I got another this year. Good glass!Quote:
YOUR first shot is the money shot....I better add the gun is scoped with a good Leopold scope
Actually 2 now. The SA284 I shortened to be a better fit within the short actionsQuote:
Originally Posted by wbm
and the use the long .290 throats. With the new 30" Brux I just hung on it, It's
a 1/3rd MOA rifle.....Next is my 284-ELF. I really shortened this one up but still
longer then a 7BR. I'm using a 130 SMK and competing in 100/200/and 300 UBR.
It's still a work in progress with a worn out Bartlein barrel. Hart is doing a barrel
for it in a proper twist. I'll note that Randy was working on about the same concept.
I believe he went with a 30 degree shoulder, and I stayed with the 35 degree. It's
a ten ring killer for sure, just need more tuning to get more X's.
I'll have a short write up on Accurate Shooter in a couple of weeks. And yes it's
on a Savage PTA, And will be mounted on a ORYX BR chassis of my own design.
Now back to our regular scheduled program.
Good to hear! I have never had a 284. Why? Don't know! Sure be nice if you add some pics on the Accurate Shooter write up.
+1. Oh yeah.Quote:
Now back to our regular scheduled program.
Is there anyone who shoots who doesn`t have flyers? Are they one of those inevitable things in life like death and taxes? The possible causes appear to be so wide and variable that I wonder if one can ever really figure them out. I also wonder if one shooter`s "flyer" may not be another`s (?). At the risk of stating the obvious, the significance assigned to a given " flyer " will vary with the shooter`s purpose. My " minute of coyote " group requirement will differ significantly from that of the dedicated target shooter.
Actually the killing shot is the money shot and you know what, good friends never ask questions about it.
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
I have a thread going on AC about sorting primers, and getting beat up a bit.
Maybe 50/50 of the crowd. Here's the deal....To some, a flyer is a full inch out,
and to some maybe only a 1/4 inch and enough to miss the ten ring. I normally
shoot CCI BR2 primers for match's. Well with the shortage this year, I ran out and
had to rely on my WLR primers I mainly use for fire forming. I've had some extreme
fliers with this lot of primers. I pulled 130 and did a sort on a Peregrine 1/100th
resolution scale and opened my eyes. Primers went from 5.34 grs to 5.16 grs. That's
a spread of almost 2 tenths. If that relates more weight to the priming compound
it's self, there would be a major cause for a flier......I'll l be doing further tests down
the road, but my last match is this weekend, and have just enough primers to finish
out the season.
Wbm..... I get some pics up on AC after this last match. I'm back on the mill
trying to finish up the new bench rest fore end for the Oryx chassis. I do believe
you hang out there also !! :cool:
LOL! Considering where this thread went I do understand.Quote:
...getting beat up a bit. Maybe 50/50 of the crowd.
Ah man. I could have helped ya there if I had a bit of lead time...that is what I usually use. Had my wife check at a place I knew in Albuquerque last fall She called and said they had CCI BR2. Asked how many I wanted and I said 1K....one of my more lame moments!Quote:
I normally shoot CCI BR2
Anyway those added to what I had came to almost 2K.
I believe I do. Good luck on the shoot!!Quote:
I do believe you hang out there also !!