I have been considering changing my FCP 10 .308 to different caliber such as 6.5 cm or a 6 arc. What all has to be changed besides the barrel? will my mags still work? My bolt face be alright?
Thanks in advance, Kevin
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I have been considering changing my FCP 10 .308 to different caliber such as 6.5 cm or a 6 arc. What all has to be changed besides the barrel? will my mags still work? My bolt face be alright?
Thanks in advance, Kevin
I can only speak for the 6.5 Creedmoor, but everything should work if you change to it. it runs the same bolt face as your .308. Your mags will still work just fine. You will need to get some headspace gauges, and the tools to take the old barrel off and install the new one, but that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
What Sage Rat said. For a 6 ARC you would need a different head for your bolt. If you are are wanting a small case to shoot 6MM bullets with , look at the 6 GT. Same bolt face/head as your 308.
Or 6mmBR
You could switch to 243 Winchester or 260 Remington & the only thing required is a barrel swap. You can even reuse all the 308 brass you have saved!
That’s what I do. Have a 260, and picked up a 1000 pieces of LakeCity 7.62 brass tho resize. For my range ammo.
Going the 6.5 CM route will be the best chance for the magazine to work. Also shorter cases like the 6 arc are also more likely to have extraction/ejection problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
What is the intended use ?
A good mechanical aptitude helps. Overconfidence can be a liability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
I am primarily shooting amateur PRS matches at a local ranch. The ranges at the last event were 400yds to 1200yds, I was having difficulties with my savage mags.
I am considering this 260 Rem, i will have to readup on it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
It's the 6.5 Creedmoor predecessor.... One advantage of the .260 Rem is that you can still use all your .308 cases and neck them down to the .264 bullet. If you can take full advantage of your case capacity, you might get an extra 50 fps over the Creed, all things being equal. The draw back is, finding off the shelf ammo is darn near impossible, so you've got to be reloading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
I love mine, but I built it on a long action, and had it "match" chambered so I could seat the bullet way out and still feed from the Magazine.
I was reading up on 6.5x47 Lapua and am real interested in it. I bought Federal gold medal 168 smk until i had enough to reload, got a copycat load off of Accurate Shooter and have been loading it since. What would i have to do to necksize to .260 just run it through a die? Will it do that in one shot? I have been reloading since 82 but ive never done any necking up or down.
The simple answer is "yes" and "no"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
if you neck down .308 brass then you may have to turn the necks to get rid of doughnuts that can happen.
I found that necking .243 brass up was as simple as running it through the .260 sizing die. Nothing else required.
After the first few times of up sizing Hornady .243 brass, I decided just to bite the bullet and went with Lapua .260 Rem brass and never looked back.
I love my “6.5-08” as it was first known as. I chose it when 6.5CM was gaining popularity. I researched both of these and decided to go with 260 for the reasons benefits we’ve said. While there is not as many choices off the shelf as with 6.5CM, there are still plenty of factory 260 loads online. Just do a search on Midway or any popular ammunition sales organization online. But it is a reloaders “dream”. And that is all I use, are my reloads. Like I said, I use once fired Lake City 7.62. Crimped primers and all. I decap, clean, & swage the primer pockets. Then I run through a 7mm-08 first, then 260 FL sizer. I know many others just go right to using the 260. But I’m meticulous, and I enjoy reloading as I enjoy building firearms & gunsmithing. I don’t mind the time spent, because I find it enjoyable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
My brother started shooting PRS matches with a .260, then went to a 6.5x47L, then to the 6.5 Creedmoor, and he has had 3 customs in that and likes it he best. They all were accurate, so really that is not an issue. He is running his 6.5 Creedmoor at 2920 FPS and it seems that all of his 6.5 Creedmoors have had a great accuracy node right around that speed, and the last 2 he has gotten 2500-3000 rounds out of them and still attaining 1/2 MOA accuracy, but just in preparation for the barrel being that close to being toast he has replaced them. So he is still not sure how much life is left, but for loading that hot, i figure he is doing well. He was shooting a different bullet weight in his .260 and the 6.5x47L so it is really hard to say how they ultimately stack up, other than when he was doing test loads with the 6.5x47L he was not getting nearly the speed when he was testing the same weight. Other than the 6.5 x47L being slower than the other 2, everything is about the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev1Doggy
These guys collect and report on a lot of info concerning match shooters. Some is a few years old but may be valid until newer/hotter cartridges come out, like 6.5PRS (note the rule change in PRS that caused the development of the 6.5PRS).
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2017/...-the-pros-use/
There was a note in one of the articles that the 6.5's were losing favor since many of the matches have moved from steel to electronic targets. The 6mm's would not ring/move the steel enough to record a hit. With electronic targets that is not an issue so the lower recoil of the 6mm's has made them more popular. That may or may not apply to your.
The easiest 6.5 is the Creedmoor. It is a perfect prs starter cartridge. Easy to find factory loads and easy to load for. Does everything a 260 can do and does it better.
If changing to 6.5 cm i see new savage pulloffs for a couple hundred, or should go to aftermarket for a few more like an apache in this classified. My 308 has always shot sub moa with the Savsge barrel
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
I am plus 1 on 6.5 Creedmoor . Efficient, low recoil , extremely accurate , very high bc on bullets, flat shooting, ez to load for, standard chamber dimensions, boat load of brass to choose from, long life on barrels, plenty of room for maximizing oal to get to lands . Inexpensive components . How many other cartridges have this full list of attributes .
I apologize if anyone thought I was talking directly to them. I made a statement only...but I’m not playing this game anymore. So I simply deleted it.
My posts cleaned up & Ignore list edited. Have fun continuing an argument I won’t see.
Standard saami reamer specs have a free bore at .070 & .090 longer on the Creedmoor allowing to seat farther out than the 260. The longer CM neck is a plus here allowing to seat boatails out of the donut area. The 30° shoulder and larger diameter powder column also help offset the difference in capacity (2 - 3 grains). Saami pressures are also slightly different. I've had both and each are excellent. Right now I've been working on a hybrid of the two that uses a shortened 260 case with a 30° CM shoulder angle & neck. H2O capacity is 2-1/2 grains more than the Creedmoor. Case is similar to the Creedmoor being .075 - .080 longer. OAL case length 2.006 with trim length at 2.001. So far load testing has 2925 fps close to max with 130 Bergers in a 22" Savage tube and well over 3000 in a 26" Shilen. Kind of best of both worlds excepting heavier bullets may be well over a 3" mag length near the lands. The 130 Bergers are approx 2.965 ATL.
Another advantage is 260 cases in the CM die transform the 20• shoulder angle to 30° in one pass. One fireforming has them near final capacity.
I apologize if anyone thought I was talking directly to them. I made a statement only...but I’m not playing this game anymore. So I simply deleted it.
My posts cleaned up & Ignore list edited. Have fun continuing an argument I won’t see.
This is all just nit picking. Your skill with the rifle and care in reloading will make more difference than which of these calibers you pick.
Good points Dave. Didn't mean to defend one over another. Hornady marketing has put an edge certainly to the Creedmoor with all mfgs. making a variety of ammo .
for the CM.
If the std 260 had a longer throat that would be my choice any day but a short action magazine may not cut the mustard anymore. Most of my builds use a long action so it wouldn't make a difference to me.
. .The OP may very well be better off with the 260 because of possible extraction problems with the CM. The increased diameter at the shoulder is just enough in some actions to "wedge" the case between the lug abutment and the bolt rail during extraction. Sometimes a small amount of clearance must be ground/machined in this area to prevent case drops.
Also the shorter CM case (~.100) forms a steeper angle during extraction and this can contribute to more case drops due to other tolerances within the bolt & bolt head.
Nothing that can't be remedied, but there will be less chance for problems with a 308 to 260 conversion.
This has been a good thought provoking thread. I hope the OP has good luck with his project and catches the same "addiction" that most of this brotherhood has!��
MNbogboy, No need to apologize for pointing out the attributes of the 6.5 CM. The numbers of rifles chambered in either cartridge tells the tale. I have both and the 260 stays in the closet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnbogboy2
No need whatsoever to apologize my friend. I didn’t think you were. And even if you were, so what...ya know? Everyone is free to choose as they please...for whatever reason they choose. I like all the 6.5s. Don’t think you can go wrong with any one. When I decided on this, I wanted the most powerful 6.5 that will still easily be Mag fed. Otherwise, I would have gone 6.5-284.
Edited: because I’m not playing the same old game with certain people. Ignore list updated.
Yeah. For me he "classic" write up by Demigod on the 6.5x47 vs 6.5CM vs 260....still applies. "The 6.5 Creedmoor is the 260 done right."Quote:
No need to apologize for pointing out the attributes of the 6.5 CM.
I apologize if anyone thought I was talking directly to them. I made a statement only...but I’m not playing this game anymore. So I simply deleted it.
My posts cleaned up & Ignore list edited. Have fun continuing an argument I won’t see.
You seem to argue about everything,Dave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I own and shoot 2 custom 6.5 CM's,a 260 Remington,and built a 260 AI that didn't impress me at all. When it comes to comparing the 6.5 CM - 260 Remington - 6.5x47 Lapua,it's all a toss up. 50 -100 fps means nothing in real world shooting! Being able to load out to the lands,and still being able to load shells into a magazine does,and most 260's can't pass that test.
If I need to shoot a 6.5mm bullet over 3000 fps,I just grab my 6.5-06 and let'er rip. Why try to make a short action cartridge pressure out when you can just go bigger.
I've been shooting and reloading for over 40 years. In that time,I've seen a lot of cartridges come and go. In reality,there are no "Best" cartridges,there's the ones that you choose to like and shoot.
Get off your throne Dave,you don't know it all.
I am offended Dave, I think you called me a liar.
Just trying to validate your claim......How many Creedmoor's have you owned and used extensively? What projectiles did you use in your Creedmoor? What ones do you use in your 260. What type of shooting do you do and what type of shooting did the 260 shine. What was the epiphany that told you your 260 flat out smoked your 6.5 Creedmoor? At what range or on what animal did you see this dramatic difference in terminal performance?
I apologize if anyone thought I was talking directly to them. I made a statement only...but I’m not playing this game anymore. So I simply deleted it.
My posts cleaned up & Ignore list edited. Have fun continuing an argument I won’t see.
That's alright Dave. I forgot there is an Ignore setting on this forum,but now I no longer will need to see all of your "Know it All" postings.
You may be a nice and smart guy,but you don't know everything about firearms or shooting them. A lot of us have been doing it longer than you've been alive,and we may know a thing or two about them.
I think the 50 fps advantage is lost when you factor in optimal charge weight for a rifle. Rarely does a rifle shoot best at max charge. So there may or may not be a velocity advantage at all. Also powder choice and bullet choice brass ect... 50 fps is ez to loose when finding most accurate load . Always accuracy over velocity . No one likes a fast miss.
I guess i took it that you meant that i was a liar when i said my brother shoots PRS and he shoots his last 3 6.5 Creedmoors with 140 ELD-M's at 2920 FPS... I was merely relaying the progression from 260 to 6.5x47L to 6.5 Creedmoor and that the 6.5 Creedmoor is his favorite.
Me,You,Quote:
The easiest 6.5 is the Creedmoor. It is a perfect prs starter cartridge. Easy to find factory loads and easy to load for. Does everything a 260 can do and does it better.
Quote:
Stating that 6.5cm does everything a 260 Rem does and does it better, is flat out WRONG! Its easy to prove that as a LIE.
Me,Quote:
I am offended Dave, I think you called me a liar.
YouNow who is lying Dave? I think you are.Quote:
Robin, No, I didn’t call you or anyone else, anything. I made factual statements.
However, I gave you a chance to qualify your factsYou did not respond, Why? Because you have no experience but what you read. If I had asked a knife question you may have been able to dazzle me with brilliance but with rifle cartridges you can only baffle me with BS. Your little verbal snipes don't go unnoticed either.Quote:
Just trying to validate your claim......How many Creedmoor's have you owned and used extensively? What projectiles did you use in your Creedmoor? What ones do you use in your 260. What type of shooting do you do and what type of shooting did the 260 shine. What was the epiphany that told you your 260 flat out smoked your 6.5 Creedmoor? At what range or on what animal did you see this dramatic difference in terminal performance?
Not a problem. I think TxHillbilly has the right solution. It can really make a thread hard to follow when some are on ignore but I think It is the best option.
So is it one of us or both? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by want2ride
No, want2ride. I knew you were simply repeating a story.
I apologize if anyone thought I was talking directly to them. I made a statement only...but I’m not playing this game anymore. So I simply deleted it.
My posts cleaned up & Ignore list edited. Have fun continuing an argument I won’t see.
Once again,You don't know what the hell you're talking about Dave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I don't have any issues hitting 2900 fps with a 143 gr Hornady ELD-X,and can push a 140 gr Berger VLD a little faster out of my 26" barreled 6.5 CM's using Reloader 17. They go even faster with Reloader 26,but I don't care to use it. I use Lapua brass,and can still go up .3-.4 grains before it starts flattening the primers.
I shoot out to a mile with it often.
https://i.imgur.com/nLhF1CC.jpg
This is how it shoots after tweaking the seating length a little.
https://i.imgur.com/TdlIEZn.jpg
Oh,And here's the gun and the range I shoot out to a mile at.
https://i.imgur.com/ubCsC6s.jpg
The range at zero magnification-
https://i.imgur.com/EkUXVAK.jpg
And zoomed in so you can see the target's. I'm shooting on the right side lane.The first target just past the trees is 700 yards,and they go out to 2k yards from there. The farthest that I shoot is 1793 yards with a 6.5 CM.
https://i.imgur.com/NTEkuRz.jpg