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I am going to use a axis rifle in 223 as the parent chassis for my 7x33 sako build what I need help determining is do I use a 22 inch 24 inch or 26 inch tube with this small cartridge ans what barrel contour will best suit me either a #2 or a #4?? I plan on hunting with it...... so whats your opinion???? Rusty
Have you considered the difficulty you may have with extraction and ejection? If I am not mistaken that round was designed for use in a horter action similar in size to the Howa designed for 223 and 7.62. you will need a custom bolt head.
Sometimes it is the journey and I can relate as just recently I tried to help a guy do the go down a bad wabbithole. My recent post on this was named the 6mm Hagler. I think that project may have been more doable from a practical standpoint. In the end there are better options like a 6.8 sps (or 7mm-6.8 spc?)
Good Luck
I am making 7x33 sako cases out of 350 legend cases and the rim is .223 all the way so no extraction issues
If the main use is hunting, the shorter the better. None of my hunting rifles are longer than 22" now, most are 20", and I am seriously considering all future ones to be 18". The small drop in velocity between 24" and 18" means nothing inside 300 yards.
I don't know the velocity tables for the 7x33 sako, but I bet you can go down to 20" easy.
What powder are you planning to use? Slower powders prefer longer barrels. I like 21" to 22" for hunting with a relatively slow powder in a standard (non-magnum) cartridge. I've hunted with barrels as long as 29" in centerfire (44" in muzzleloaders) in tight NY woodlots and don't see that shorter gains you . . . anything. You can save a few ounces with an inch less sporter weight barrel. But how often does the added length really interfere with anything?
Indoors or in vehicles, yes. Hunting in the woods, no. And unless you are snap shooting offhand there isn't much gain dropping below 22" IMHO; just a loss of velocity.
My favorite .223 Rem has a 21" medium weight barrel. Light and handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddHatter
The case is 33 millimeters long. 1.300". What will happen once the...............nevermind. Let us know how she turns out.
go on,,,,," what will happen once the ......."' just like a good book, leave me hanging!!!
Rusty, I don't have any way of knowing or being certain if you would have issues but in the past people have tried very short rounds in standard length actions have had extraction issues. What has happened or at least this is what I recall is, as you pull the bolt back the extractor has control of the case and pulls it back. Simultaneously the case is getting pushed towards the ejection port. As the case clears the breach there is nothing to control the case from flipping itself off of the extractor. Now your case has fallen down into the bolt raceway or loading port. Not good.
Some guys have gone to a controlled round feed, claw extractor with a standing ejector system. I'm not an expert but I do recognize that few bolt actions are made at the factory with short cartridges. Lever actions maybe. Get the details of the Sako rifles that were chambered in that cartridge. That model if I am not mistaken came in a very short action for that cartridge.(Howa has done the same thing and that may be another option.) All I'm saying is, before you buy your barrel, do your homework. If you need to get a cartridge that duplicates the ballistics but works in your action you are a winner.
The 44 AMP is just under 33mm. If it worked well I think that's what I would do. Got 500 pieces of brass waiting.
ok that makes sense I just built a 7mm Bench rest and used a axis Long Action (270) cause it was cheap... I do have some extraction issues somtimes it works just fine other times i just drops it on top of the magazine and I have to fish it out.. so if I am right a shorter action will help alleviate poor extraction,, letting full extraction of the case thru the port and out of the gun... so is the .223 rem considered a short action or standard action?
I already have the reamer in hand and have the barrel in the mail... so I am gonna try it worst case scenario is its a single shot ,, best case scenario a nice repeater.. to bad sako L42 and L46 rifles are so hard to find in 7x33 I think only a total of 5000 were ever made and most of those are in sweden, finland,and norway
Has anyone tried blocking the magazine for a short round like Savage does on the .223? That would make everything 'look' like a shorter action for the purposes of extraction and ejection. I suspect that any of the short, fat cartridges would still be difficult to make work.
And, no the Axis in .223 is not shorter. The .308 family is consider 'short action', .30-06 is 'std or long action' and then you have the 'magnum' length suitable for the H&H series magnums. The .223 is even shorter than the .308 so it will fit in a short action but could also be fitted to an even shorter action. But, the Axis action, as far as I understand, only comes in one length, which is why there is a big filler block at the back of the magazine for the .223 rounds.
The problem is not the length of the action......it's the overall size and diameter. That cartridge would be better suited on a model 25 action.
What was the motivation if you don't mind me asking?Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddHatter
I don't think is is the short or long action, I think it is the distance between the breach and the ejection port.
well one day I was reading Frank C Barnes Cartridges of the World back in 1986-87 and I fell in love with this little can do round,, my father-in-law thought I was nuts but hey to each there own so time has gone by
and I decided to make my own rifle after trying to find a sako that was for sale and that was no good...so here I am roughly 35 years later trying to make it happen and nobody I talked to seemed to come up with anything better other than using a savage .223 axis and re-barreling as a side note I am also building a 7.92x33 kurz and 375 BR both on .243 savage axis chassis as well....
Sounds like a passion! If it doesn't work you could always grab one of the Howa mini actions.
https://www.howausa.com/miniaction-rifle#!
https://0a7d3273-3089-44e6-a732-60e4...559881089a.pdf
Wow That Howa Mini Action makes alot more sense.....and its not that much more money,,,, I can always use this barrel I have on order fore something else.....
so who makes Howa? otherwise I can always stay with my original plans... gad decisions decisions
Howa's are a very good action. Better than Remingtons. They do have a flat bottom with a integral recoil lug, some people don't like that but it a better design in my opinion. They have a metric barrel thread. 1.5mm I believe. Cant remember the OD but it might be 25 mm. Great trigger....... Read up on it. Some people are using a barrel nut "Howage". If your lathe has metric threading capabilities it is a no brainer.
Just because it's shorter, doesn't mean it will work any better. The bolt diameter is the same as the standard short action, and that's where the problem lies. For short cases with a small boltface, the whole action needs to be scaled down. The bolt diameter needs to be smaller as well as the diameter of the lugs, and the thickness of the lugs. A short case requires less jump to get the nose of the bullet started into the chamber mouth, and thus the magazine must be closer to the breech. A smaller diameter will also limit the deflection angle of the case when the ejector tips it out.
I can get my 7mm BR to magazine feed reliably 100% using a axis 270 platform. on extraction 75% of the time is clear 25% is not....however I am limited to just one in the tube and one in the magazine.. so a 3 shot group is no big deal.. I will switch my 7mm BR barrel to a 243 chassis rifle to get to a shorter magazine length and maybe better feed and extraction action
Howa Machinery does...out of Tokyo, Japan. The Howa 1500 action is used by Weatherby for the Vanguard rifle line. I have 2 Howas and they are beautiful actions with great triggers and hammer forged barrels. Only real negative for me is the short and small bolt handle. But just grind it down and thread it for a larger knob.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddHatter
Excellent point. So how about a Remington 788Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
I never really thought about it because you don't see many 788's any more, but yes, I think that would work fine. The single stack magazine would definitely have advantages.
I have a 788 in 22-250. It's a ugly duckling but puts a hurtin on coyotes.
so is the rem 788 barrel a metric thread or is it SAE?? is it a easy re barrel ?? cause it would make a good donor rifle to build on for my projects like you guys say... according to my research the 788 action is actually a more stiff part than a 700 and is somewhat more accurate than the 700....not bad for an economy build
Can't remember the dia off the top my head but it's either a 18 or 20 pitch thread.
1-20 according to SpeerChucker30x3 on PracticalMachinist.com
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ington-788.jpg
It could be stiffer but I haven't hears that about them. The barrel on mine is not a varmint barrel but it is thicker at the muzzle than most sporter barrels of other rifles. It is unique with it's nine lugs and has been touted as the fastest lock of any production rifle at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddHatter
.....and you do not have the lug raceway to inhibit extraction of small/ short cartridges. It was ahead of its time..
that is what I have found as well,,,,that the lug raceway doesn't inhibit the extraction of the cartridge.....my next question is about the recoil lug...is it integral to the receiver or is it
a single piece unit like the m700? and is there replacement parts for it or do you just re-use the old lug?
I am actually leaning to the Remington 788 platform in .223..and still looking into the mini Howa as well..... but I like the 788. and I can purchase a good donor rifle for about 350.00 off gun broker.com just a little bit more than a axis rifle in .223 all I gotta do is talk to my gunsmith about the 788 and see if he can machine that particular thread and contour...
I bought a 788 for my oldest son for his first rifle about 50 years ago.
He is now (as i recall) 57. Lol
His is a 243 and has always been a very accurate gun.
They also made a lefty version by just flipping the bolt to the opposite side, but leaving the port on the right side.
Great for a lefty shooting from a bench.
Ive always kicked myself for not buying a lefty back then, as they bring premium prices today.
BUT, I’ve read that they tend to have lug setback issues after a period of time with some of the hotter cartridges like 6mm AI.
I don’t know if the small rear lugs might contribute to that.