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I am having a bit of a time finding replacement bolt faces for a model 12FV in .223. Would like SA .473 and .540 RH bolt faces so I can build this in whatever configuration I like. I was able to find a repalcement bolt baffle at XLR so the wife can use magazines, but it seems that everyone selling bolt faces is out of stock unless it's PTG and that seems to be mixed bag from the reviews. I think I'd prefer to stick with Savage OEM.
Any and all assistance appreciated. Thanks!
Good try WBM. Let me fix that for you.
http://www.gunshack.com/savage-parts...60-338-federal
For a magnum you will need to cut/grind a little off the tail of a long action magnum BH.
http://www.gunshack.com/savage-parts...gnum-bolt-head
copy that, but again, the one is showing as pre-order and the magnum as out of stock... I seem to be rubbing up against that everywhere I go. I'll email and ask them if the pre-order is a drop-ship and if so, what's the turnaround time.
THanks for the info.
Gunparts Co has them. I ordered a factory new .473 RH bolt head last Monday and was in my mail box Saturday.
I'm hopeful that once the sale of Savage takes effect (August 1st) parts availability will improve significantly shortly thereafter.
I've gotten several bolt heads from PTG and I've always been impressed by the products received.
You must be the exception then.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudpig
gah! yes they do! How did I *NOT* know to check Numrich... Pretty sure if I needed an extractor spring for a 7.7 Arisaka bring back, they'd have every variety of OEM spring that the Japanese turned out in stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilC
THanks!
Ditto. Improved groups on three sticks, don't know how(got an idea). Had to increase the depth of the extractor detent spring hole for the upgraded ball diameter(9/64). simple job with the right sized bit. Just took a touch out of the bottom. That thing must have been near coil bind from the factory. Installed dozens with that being the only issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudpig
Everything I’ve ever purchased from PTG has been excellent. I think a few people just have an axe to grind with them. Someone even said their steel was soft, like dust or something?? Preposterous! The Savage bolt heads are stamped(press forged) steel, the PTG are machined from a Billet. There were more problems years ago, but are very, very high quality now. Unfortunately, once bitten.... People aren’t likely to give products another look if they have it in their heads they were wronged. The PTG bolt head is flat out nicer, and can produce very nice results. Mudpig is Hardly the only one who has used several PTG parts to success. (Just look at reviews). But of course there will be bad reviews as well. Many by people who have never touch a PTG product, and are simply repeating what they hear others say, they believe are knowledgeable. That said, Savage bolt heads work just fine, and at much cheaper prices. Much like the difference in building either a Glock or a 1911. The Glock will accept parts very easily with little to no fitment. Building a 1911 is quite different. Every part must be HAND FIT! But it’s a higher precision piece.
What ever gave you the idea that Savage bolt heads are stamped or forged???
They are made with either stampings or cast ingots. So please enlighten.
I briefly considered the PTG bolt head, which I grant certainly appears to be a higher precision piece, but I couldn't justify it over the factory part, which for less than $25, works just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
If they are precision, why dose the small dia. firing pin not fit correctly ?
So are the Savage ones machined from a casting or are they forged? I like forged parts. Cast is a different story depending on how it is done.
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You say that like it's a matter of fact, but nothing is farther from the truth. They are neither......They have always been machined from billet stock from day one. In 1988, they started using extruded profile stock to cut machining time. The material used is 41L40, heat treated to 35-42 Rc. Currently there are 3 different vendors who supply bolt heads to Savage, 2 use profiled stock, the other uses round stock. Despite the fact that they come from 3 places, these bolt heads are THE most consistent component of all the parts that goes into a Savage rifle. I know, because I measure hundreds of them. PTG bolt heads are the most inconsistent part that I have ever seen from an aftermarket vendor. They not only vary from part to part, but have specs that do not work to anybodies advantage. I have a lot of customers that send a PTG bolt head to use on their build, so I get to see a larger cross section of samples than most users on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Most of the time I will not use a PTG bolt head just for the fact it takes more time and effort to make them work correctly, and as good as a OEM part. For what they cost, you would expect an advantage, but there is none. I'm partial to what works, and if there was an advantage, I'd have them in all my guns.
What could take more time than facing or bushing?
You missed that one Dave. It does look like it is shot peened though. The face is always dished. And it floats:disillusionment:.
Once again I disagree. No mass produced parts like bolts, actions etc., are CNC’d from a Billet! Companies, like Remington, Savage, Howa etc., use either investment castings, or forged pieces, then final machined to specs. The PTG bolt heads ARE CNC machined from a solid billet, a very expensive & precise process, which is Which is why they simply look different...nicer...cleaner! Explain how Savage could POSSIBLY afford to use the most expensive style of machining in metallurgy, and then sell them for under $25?? The bolt heads are made as I said. A rough shaped pressing(which IS forging btw...these aren’t 2 different things! Forging, as it is in law producing, is not the old guy over a coal forge & anvil!Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
Im sorry Robin, what did I miss? Have to forgive me on not catching on to things sometimes... but metallurgy is something I do have a firm understanding of, and I know for a FACT, that companies which produce more economical firearms DO NOT use Billet parts! Here’s a good example...think about a standard forged AR15 receiver, and one of newer, “pretty” BILLET receivers. It’s quite easy to tell them apart. Just as it’s easy to tell a Savage & PTG bolt head apart. Why is that?
Sharpshooter has spent time at the factory and from the photos i've seen he is very intimate with the process. So unless he is and has misrepresented his knowledge and understanding of this process, I would on a general principal trust what he said. But that is me. Im not a blind follower mind you and may have a different paradigm at times but Fred, at least in my opinion has not made a practice out of steering people wrong.
I like the PTG pieces and feel that in several cases they where good medicine. Also you would be surprised at how much money Howa spends on their actions compared to others.
I’m baggin’ what you’re rakin’ Robin. That is sound wisdom coming from you. And I’ve never mistaken you as a “blind follower”. I simply disagree, based on what I know. There is more to it also, I think. Maybe Dave Kiff could weigh in. But I digress.
I apologize, my comment was not to say Howas are “cheep”. Just that they are mass produced. And big companies ARE NOT in business to LOSE money. Howas are great actions, but they are made via drop forging or investment casting. Not by CNC machining. Now, Savage actions ARE made from bar stock. (Not the same as CNC machining). The action is round, thus turned on a lathe, and milled. But a bolt has curves which a mill/lathe combo cannot produce. 5 Axis CNC territory. Otherwise, parts like this are either forged or cast to shape, then finished machined. This why CNC’d parts have that very distinct “nicer” look to them...I.E., the difference in appearance between a Savage & PTG bolt head. Or the difference between a Savage recoil lug, which is press stamped, and a machined aftermarket lug. The knowledge I have comes from years & years of learning.....not what “a friend that worked”, or “an ATF, FBI, CIA agent” TOLD ME. :becky::becky: But, being that this is America, it’s OK if Fred & I or anyone else disagree.
As an engineer we used to debate forged vs milled parts a lot. If you already have a forge and dies it is the way to go for a lot of parts. Finish milling, whether hand or CNC, was much less time, ie, less expensive. And forging does instill some interesting metallurgical properties to the material if done right.
Milling from a billet works well, but, a LOT of material is cut away. Not important if you are using inexpensive metals, but, can be an issue if it is not. It also means more time to machine all that material. These days CNC is cheaper to get started with and is why so many aftermarket parts are made from billet.
ANY machining process can create more problems if it is not done correctly, even CNC stuff. Sharp corners are one area where I find a lot of issues with some "billet" parts.
FWIW, I prefer forged and machined parts if I know they are done correctly with proper alloys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I have 33 years modifying metal with either a grinding machine(OD, ID, Surface, Blanchard, Planetary and Jig) or a tooling machine(Lathes, Mills, VTL's HBM's DP's) albeit in a specialized world. I live with tolerance much less than .001" everyday. I have 41years total in manufacturing environment. My BS meter is low with what I know, otherwise I listen closely. Stay humble.
Yes, you are quite right Robin. Point taken to reflect on my friend. Regards. And thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
:pop2:
Yeah me too. Think there is more than one that needs a bit of humility.
Ouch! Mom!