Caliber determination?

I just bought a used savage model 16ss off gun broker in what was advertised as 7mm-08. Upon arrival and after I gave the gun a thorough cleaning I noticed that the bore diameter looked significantly larger than my 7mm rem mag. I did find what appeared to be many tiny balls of something in every nook and cranny of the reciever and bolt head. The barrel is new (or very close to it, and has no markings or caliber indications what so ever. This is leading me to believe the gun is not a 7mm-08, but rather chambered in either .308 or .358 win. I did buy a brass casing (and a box of 7mm-08 ammo and either chambers fine. A 7mm bullet will easily slide down the barrel. Is there a way to determine the caliber? Thanks!!

Welcome to the forum
I would take the barrel/action from the stock and see if there is anything stamped on the barrel that was below the stock .
If there is nothing, look through the ejection port at the face of the barrel( where the shell goes in) and see if there is some writing or stamping there.
You might have to clean the area first.
If you don't find any writing/stamping, the next step would be to do a chamber casting to get measurements of the chamber
A gunsmith can usually do this for you. You can do it yourself also if you have the knowledge and the casting materials

You already know this but I have to say it:
I would not shoot any ammo in the rifle until I was sure of the caliber
Jack

Do you have, or know some who has a bore-sight kit with different mandrels for various calibers? I have an old BSA kit like this. Just a thought...

Thanks for the replies. Durning cleaning I did remove the stock and look in all those areas. The inside of the receiver/chamber is bright and no stamping can hide there. I do not have any mandrels. Looks like a chamber cast is in my future. If indeed it is a different caliber than advertised, is there a degree of liability or responsibility of which someone should be accountable? Ie..should have the gun shop confirmed the caliber/cartridge before selling it as advertised as something’s my incorrect? Should I notify them? Etc....?

Welcome.

If you do decide to keep it I'd recommend that you do a chamber casting. Narrowing down the bore is only part of the question.

Unstamped it could be an "improved" version or even something fun like a .30-284

Gun Broker may be able to help, but before you involve them get your ducks in a row. Make sure you know what the chambering really is.

Tell us more about " I did find what appeared to be many tiny balls of something in every nook and cranny of the reciever and bolt head."

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Originally Posted by Derekmeier

Should I notify them? Etc....?

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That would be my first step... but if you haven't confirmed that it is in fact something other than what they said it was, I'd start there.

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

or even something fun like a .30-284

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A man after my own heart!

Will do. Thanks for all the replies. I have a feeling it could be a 338fed.

The presence of grit as you describe suggests factory media blasting. Savage has been known to let the occasional unmarked barrels out the door, yours may be one of them. A call to Savage Customer Service with the serial number will tell you what it was when it left the factory. They may insist you return it for a properly marked barrel to be installed. If the color and finish of the barrel and action match perfectly, it's most likely all original. The presence of media under the barrel nut would be strong evidence it is all original.

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Originally Posted by Derekmeier

Thanks for the replies. Durning cleaning I did remove the stock and look in all those areas. The inside of the receiver/chamber is bright and no stamping can hide there. I do not have any mandrels. Looks like a chamber cast is in my future. If indeed it is a different caliber than advertised, is there a degree of liability or responsibility of which someone should be accountable? Ie..should have the gun shop confirmed the caliber/cartridge before selling it as advertised as something’s my incorrect? Should I notify them? Etc....?

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You thought you were buying a 7-08, it's clearly not a 7-08- or 7mm anything- when a 7mm boolit slides down the barrel.
Seller has an obligation to accept a return (and pay the return shipping).
Hard stop.

Two thoughts;
1) if you got a real good deal on it it may be worth more if the aftermarket barrel is high quality no matter what caliber it turns out to be. Remove the barrel and check it's identity (if possible). You then may be able to sell the barrel and buy a savage take-off 7mm-08 and come out money ahead.

2) slugging the bore will definitely rule out the 7mm and that is enough proof to send it back.

Let us know what you find either way.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

The presence of grit as you describe suggests factory media blasting. Savage has been known to let the occasional unmarked barrels out the door, yours may be one of them. A call to Savage Customer Service with the serial number will tell you what it was when it left the factory. They may insist you return it for a properly marked barrel to be installed. If the color and finish of the barrel and action match perfectly, it's most likely all original. The presence of media under the barrel nut would be strong evidence it is all original.

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DUH! This is one of those times where a little experience and knowledge can save a whole ton of grief!

Thanks for the insight.

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A 7mm bullet will easily slide down the barrel.

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The barrel you have is not 7mm. You paid for a 7mm-08. It is not a 7mm-08....so why not just send it back?

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Originally Posted by Texas10

The presence of grit as you describe suggests factory media blasting. Savage has been known to let the occasional unmarked barrels out the door, yours may be one of them. A call to Savage Customer Service with the serial number will tell you what it was when it left the factory. They may insist you return it for a properly marked barrel to be installed. If the color and finish of the barrel and action match perfectly, it's most likely all original. The presence of media under the barrel nut would be strong evidence it is all original.

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Thus the caliber will be marked on the left side of the barrel just above the line of the stock.....?

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Originally Posted by Texas10

The presence of grit as you describe suggests factory media blasting. Savage has been known to let the occasional unmarked barrels out the door, yours may be one of them. A call to Savage Customer Service with the serial number will tell you what it was when it left the factory. They may insist you return it for a properly marked barrel to be installed. If the color and finish of the barrel and action match perfectly, it's most likely all original. The presence of media under the barrel nut would be strong evidence it is all original.

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I seriously doubt a barrel has ever left the factory on an assembled rifle without having been roll stamped, mainly because it would be illegal under federal law. The law stipulates that all arms are required to me marked with the makers name and where it was made. Can't recall if that's part of the NFA of 1933 or the GCA of 1968, but it's in one of them.

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Originally Posted by bsekf

Gun Broker may be able to help, but before you involve them get your ducks in a row. Make sure you know what the chambering really is.

Tell us more about " I did find what appeared to be many tiny balls of something in every nook and cranny of the reciever and bolt head."

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That sounds to me like the factory "grit" I find in the threads on every Savage I've pulled apart.

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Originally Posted by mnbogboy2

Two thoughts;
1) if you got a real good deal on it it may be worth more if the aftermarket barrel is high quality no matter what caliber it turns out to be. Remove the barrel and check it's identity (if possible). You then may be able to sell the barrel and buy a savage take-off 7mm-08 and come out money ahead.

2) slugging the bore will definitely rule out the 7mm and that is enough proof to send it back.

Let us know what you find either way.

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Kinda what I was thinking.

'Cept no need to slug the barrel.
If it were a 7mm barrel, a 7mm bullet will never slide through it unless it had 100,000 rounds through it and no rifling left...

After bringing it to a local gunsmith.....the caliber is..........308 winchester. Definitely NOT what I paid for nor what was advertised. The ad on Gunbroker says no returns accepted. I do think I got a 'deal', but I'm new at this stuff and don't really know. The barrel is new and totally unmarked and is of match grade quality (says the gunsmith). That said, I wanted to buy a light kicking rifle that when scoped weighs sub 7lbs for my wife (or myself) to use as a mountain/walking gun for all sorts of critters here in AK (minus the brownies). Scoped, it weighs in at 8.2lbs which isn't significantly different than her 30.06 sporterized M1917 Enfield. It definitely weighs more than I anticipated and will have enough kick that doesn't make it significantly different than the 30.06. I'm gonna sell the gun and search for a Model Seven or Tikka. However, I'd like to ask to be compensated for shipping, the chamber cast, and stamping I had put on the barrel from the seller on Gunbroker. Is this a reasonable request? Or should I 'bite the bullet' and take my losses? Thanks!!

You can probably find a good sporter 7mm-08 barrel for not much money. Re-barrelling is not hard to do or you can have a gunsmith do it. Then post the barrel for sale.

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Originally Posted by Derekmeier

After bringing it to a local gunsmith.....the caliber is..........308 winchester. Definitely NOT what I paid for nor what was advertised. The ad on Gunbroker says no returns accepted. I do think I got a 'deal', but I'm new at this stuff and don't really know. The barrel is new and totally unmarked and is of match grade quality (says the gunsmith). That said, I wanted to buy a light kicking rifle that when scoped weighs sub 7lbs for my wife (or myself) to use as a mountain/walking gun for all sorts of critters here in AK (minus the brownies). Scoped, it weighs in at 8.2lbs which isn't significantly different than her 30.06 sporterized M1917 Enfield. It definitely weighs more than I anticipated and will have enough kick that doesn't make it significantly different than the 30.06. I'm gonna sell the gun and search for a Model Seven or Tikka. However, I'd like to ask to be compensated for shipping, the chamber cast, and stamping I had put on the barrel from the seller on Gunbroker. Is this a reasonable request? Or should I 'bite the bullet' and take my losses? Thanks!!

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Couple of thoughts...

First, "no returns" does NOT apply when there is misrepresentation at best- and potential fraud at worst- involved. I doubt the seller knew it is a .308- have you contacted them to let them know the firearm is not as advertised? They are legally obligated to accept the return, regardless of their stated policy. I would be very surprised if they did not tell you to send it back (at their expense) and refund your purchase price.

Recourse if not? Gunbroker (false/deceptive advertising), and the BATF- if it came to it. I doubt he'd want a phone call from their local field office.

Felt recoil is related to the weight of the pills. A .308 sending 180's will begin to approach your .06 (still 15% less), but with 150's will have roughly just 20% more felt recoil than a 7-08 with 140's.

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Originally Posted by J.Baker

I seriously doubt a barrel has ever left the factory on an assembled rifle without having been roll stamped, mainly because it would be illegal under federal law. The law stipulates that all arms are required to me marked with the makers name and where it was made. Can't recall if that's part of the NFA of 1933 or the GCA of 1968, but it's in one of them.

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Just read a thread on another site regarding a new Savage with no caliber marking on the barrel. He sent it back to the factory and they replaced the barrel. So no, in the least I wasn't making that up, however I was depending upon the veracity of his post.

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Originally Posted by Derekmeier

Or should I 'bite the bullet' and take my losses? Thanks!!

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This is a principle thing. Some guy sells a 308 as a 7mm08 because 308's are a dime a dozen and 708's are a little easier to sell. You buy it and find out it was a lie. Then you say "awe shucks, I guess I'll take the hit." Tomorrow this guy sells a 308 as a 6.5 Creedmoor. Why? Because it worked the last time.

If nothing else raise all kinds of hell even if your going to keep it. You never know. The guy might agree to send you a couple of hundred for your trouble. Then you can do whatever you want. IMHO


Sorry you got screwed though.

O.P. have you said anything to the seller? If not send a friendly message conveying the problem.

I agree a note to the seller is in order. They should refund the money and take it as a return if they are honest folks.

If they say 'tough' then a note to gunbroker about a fraudulent dealer is in order. As well as a very poor rating. Those of us who buy from online sites read the customer comments carefully. A note from someone like you would make me not buy anything from them.

If you do get 'stuck' with it then at least a few folks would be willing to buy it, especially if you can determine the source of the barrel. If it is an aftermarket match grade it will be worth a bit.

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Originally Posted by Newtosavage

That sounds to me like the factory "grit" I find in the threads on every Savage I've pulled apart.

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Hate that stuff.