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I have re-barreled my Model 12 .308 with a Criterion barrel and put in a Rifle Basix trigger. Went through a ladder test and bullet depth determination using Sierra 175 grain bullets, Lapua brass and Federal Match primers. Shot it recently at 200 meters the best group being 1.355" which would be a .594 MOA at 200 meters. Would you be O.K. with this or should I be looking for better performance?
I would think you would get better from a criterion.. just my opinion though:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
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All of my CBI barrels are .5 MOA shooters on average. Some days I can get it a little better. I found that my 260 barrel started to shoot better after about 300 rounds down the tube. How many rounds have you sent down range with that barrel? Have you changed out the factory stock? what scope are you running? Have you pillar bedded the stock? have you glass bedded the action?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
Sorry for all the questions, but they do make a difference. I have my 260 pillar bedded in a Boyds Pro Varmint. My accuracy improved after pillar bedding.
300 rounds would be a good approximation. I'm afraid I don't keep a round count. Factory stock. Sightron 10X24 scope. No pillar bedding. No glass bedding. To be honest, I won't be doing any of those things. I suppose you may say I want to get the best out of what is there-a silk purse out of a sow's ear, I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by SageRat Shooter
Well, I'd say you chose some great Glass (I have the SIII 6-24x50 FFP) and if you're not going to put an aftermarket stock on it, then you're about as good as its probably going to get. You may find a small improvement if you find a good aftermarket stock. You may even find one that is already pillared or has a pillaring block.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
IMO, you've built a great platform, and it's actually shooting really well in it's current state of build... (Especially in .308 shooting 175s) My suggestion is since you've gone this far (and have done it right) that you finish building it out just a tad more (Stock and pillar bed) and you'll probably get the mind numbing accuracy that the CBI barrel is known for. I'm a perfectionist though, so I want every last bit I can wring out of my setup.
Good luck to you!
Thanks for your reply and the encouragement. I'll look into stocks. Any brand you suggest? I've learned, over the years , to do a good deal of smithing with pistols and rifles but I've never learned a thing about bedding or know someone who has done it. My other rifles have Nightforce scopes and eventually I hope to replace the Sightron with a the more powerful Nightforce
I believe you can get better results. Lots of methods and ideas as to what leads to accuracy. I will say one thing though. Throwing money and having the best of the best o f v this and that doesn't always equate to better results and won't make you a better shooter. Keep it simple. Its been my experience that working with prepping brass ie: cut to length, annealing, turning necks, bullet seating depths, various propellants have yielded more consistent accuracy. I'll put it to you this way, I purchased a tactical stock from eabco for under $200, then a BSA 6-24-44 scope from midway on sale for 129.95. I can pull up to the line and get the same results my shooting partners are at half the cost. Pist them off at 1st and my ears were constantly ringing but they got over it. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have the money to have the best of the best, but what's the fun in that. I love to tinker, to tweak, etc... Being a Ford Certified Tech for over 40 years has made me that way. Good luck on your endeavors. You'll find the honey hole.
"Its been my experience that working with prepping brass ie: cut to length, annealing, turning necks, bullet seating depths, various propellants have yielded more consistent accuracy."
Thanks for your reply. I do indeed do all that you mentioned above.
Get some imr 4064
Jump them 20tho��
+1............Quote:
Originally Posted by CBIshooter
^ pretty much. 43.5 grains plus or minus. R15 and Varget can do OK but my best is with 4064.
Personally, I think it should do better and I wouldn't be satisfied until it was comfortably under MOA at 200yds. Unless I missed it, you didn't say what powder you were using. My two favorite powders for a 308 are Varget (with CCI BR-2 primers) or IMR 4064 (with Fed 210M primers). Also, unless you plan to shoot beyond 300yds, I've found it's easier to get 168gr SMKs to shoot well with just about anything you stuff behind them, but the 175s are needed for long ranges. As someone else said too, for some reason I've gotten good result in a few rifles with a .02" jump to the lands.
If you're interested in pure accuracy, and not so much velocity, give this a try: 40.1 of IMR 4895, ANY 168 hpbt, Rem 9 1/2 or CCI 34, ANY brass and seat to SAMMI COAL. It's slow, but GD, it's accurate!
I would not have believed it if I read that somewhere. But I bought some ammo from an estate sale that was billed as "match loads". Thought I was getting a great deal and bought 200 rounds, only to find out it was some guys hand loads. Random headstamps, not much additional load information, and thoughts of "boy did I get what I deserve" going through my mind.
Well, I'd just put together an inexpensive Savage 12FV in 308 with a varmint barrel and was only having so-so luck developing a load, so what the heck, give it a try.
First round fired at an indoor range with a "less than optimal" bench went into the center of the target. OK say's I to myself, not bad let's see what follows.
Second round missed completely! WTF!!! I fired another, same result. Boy am I pissed now. Bring the target back only to find that all three rounds made a slightly larger than 30 cal hole for a group that measured in the low zero's. A nondescript hand load with various head stamped brass, no seating depth study, various bullet brands, breaking all the "rules" and shooting like nothing I've ever loaded or shot. I only shot two more three shot groups, barrel heating up it shot slightly worse, but still fantastic. I still have the balance of the purchase. Saving it for....who knows why, just saving it.
I re-shot this load and today didn't have the crosswind I did the last time I was at the range and posted about the results. This time was a different story. I had a 10 MPH wind at 7 o'clock and again shot at 200 meters. Lapua brass, Federal match primer, 44 grains of 4064, 175 grain Sierra seated .012" off the lands. Ended-up with a .543" group which translates to a .238 MOA.
Better. I tried that load during my 175SMK and 4064 load development. It was accurate but it was to hot for me. I found the same accuracy at a lighter charge. If you don't mind the recoil and it fits your needs then by all means.
500 meters is the limit to our range and that's what I'm aiming for (pun intended). To do that I have to beat the @#$% SW Kansas wind which will take accuracy with a heavy, fast bullet. If there is not a crosswind, I could get at 300 meters with the old barrel, better accuracy from a Berger 150 target bullet over 46+ grains of Varget and I'm betting that I can do that with the new Criterion.
Sounds like a plan
I'm glad to hear you were able to get it dialed in. Wind can make a big difference when it comes to shooting sub-.5 MOA groups!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
Nice to know the company takes an interest.
That is one place that Criterion really excels... They care what the results are with their product, and if there is something "off" with a particular barrel, they really try to make it right. One of the reasons I started with them and have not had any reason to change that. I've had 3 great barrels out of 3 orders placed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
Heard lots of good things about those barrels, but never sprung for one. (yet) Seems like you should be able to get much better than 1/2" MOA groups with it.
I have an old 25+ yr old 110FP in .308W.. Out of the box that rifle just sucked. Well the stock made it suck. Wouldn't shoot ANYTHING. Then I bought an inexpensive Choate varmint stock for it and it got much better . Lastly, it all boiled down to practice and experimenting with loading. It shoots OK with almost anything, but my old rifle with the original factory barrel shoots 175 gn SMK's in old LC74 cases I picked up off the M60 range 30+ yrs ago, Std Federal primers and 39 gn's of IMR 4064, under 1/4 MOA. If it had your barrel, I'd expect it to be even better.
Yes and yes. That is good, but no matter what I am always toying around changing one thing at a time and trying for better. You now have a benchmark load - try a different powder or primer and repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker
But you always have that benchmark load until a better one replaces it.