This is food for thought for everyone who's bought a new rifle in 6.5 CM and had troubles with the bolt not closing fully with some ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KDrLsnt2MM
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This is food for thought for everyone who's bought a new rifle in 6.5 CM and had troubles with the bolt not closing fully with some ammo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KDrLsnt2MM
Wow! Just another reason for me not to grow a man bun and jump on the 6.5 Creedmore bandwagon. 260 all the way!
He's only discussing half the problems.
Do you want me to bring the video equipment out this weekend so you can do a video covering the other half? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
Interesting video. Curious as to how old it is and if this problem still exists.
I have a new, still in the box 12FV in 6.5 CM that I have yet to chamber a round in, and now guess I'm going to have to check it out.
I have shot American Gunner 6.5 CM (Hornaday brass) and hand loaded Peterson LRP and SRP for my other 6.5 CM (Savage action, EABCO accuracy barrel) without problems. Did I Luck out or has the problem be resolved?
Good find, easy to gauge his frustration with being blamed for ammo not chambering. Agree with the throat, not shot any factory but I’m sure not surprised about the case headspace QC issues. Impossible to find good help these days.
Dave Manson ground my reamer with a .145 throat. I believe SAAMI is .178 or the like. I hate the thought of jumping a mile to lands while using a short action receiver. The manufacturers are doing it in order to reduce chamber pressure for all these hotrod loads so folks can drive the 140’s faster than they should. I guess a lot of the bullets don’t really care, as many people continue to demonstrate, but I don’t share the same experience.
I've had a 6.5x55 since before the creedmoor ever came out, and will continue to have a 6.5x55 after the creedmoor fad calms down. I have not seen any reason to get rid of it in favor of the creedmoor, and stuff like this makes me happy I chose the right cartridge.
Video was published this past February, so it's fairly current information. It's been an ongoing issue since the the round was standardized by Hornady and continues to have these issues. As he noted, you can order new Hornady brass and it's a crap shoot as to whether you'll get brass that's been annealed or not. The inconsistency in the distance from the case head to the neck/shoulder junction is something I ran into with factory Federal and AE ammo when I reviewed the Model 10 Stealth the other year. I didn't have any that I couldn't get the bolt to close on, but some required noticeably more effort to get into battery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas10
The gunsmith gets all the problems at his door step. My 12fv Creedmoor has been trouble free in every way. I would build another one without hesitation.
The Creedmoor has been out for a decade now, so most any competent gunsmith or barrel maker should have discovered and addressed any issue they had with their chamber reamer if they got one of the bad ones with the shorter throat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlshnngns
The ammunition and brass issues are the big issue here as after all this time the inconsistency problem still persists. The brass inconsistency isn't even that huge of an issue because if you're doing things right you are FL sizing your new brass before loading it the first time. Unless your dies are long it's going to push the shoulders on those longer out-of-spec cases back to where they need to be, and then they will all be fire-formed to your chamber after the first firing and you can adjust your FL or neck sizing die to get the appropriate 0.002 to 0.003" shoulder bump.
The real problem lies with the brass inconsistency on factory loaded ammo. If you don't typically shoot factory ammunition you're good to go, but if you don't reload it's an issue you need to be aware of and watch for.
^^^^^^^^^^^ This
^^^ This, x 2
Sizing new brass solves any handloading issues, assuming a FL die is used at least for the first loading.
Throating is always going to vary anyway depending on weight, and type of ogive. For the most precision, throats are cut independently based on an actual handloaded round provided to the smith.
It's the factory ammo which is apparently a problem (not aware of it)- no doubt sloppy/worn machining working past it's capacity keeping up with demand for the cartridge. This isn't a problem with the cartridge- it's the ammo and brass manufacturers as he says. Gotta say though, I've not heard these outcries he's referring to.
I still can't believe some people are calling it a fad. Do you understand how ridiculous you sound?
:pop2:.
Should we start a list of "fads"?
Yes.
I listened to the video closely and have questions about his statements. First of all. brass is annealed numerous times during manufacture in order to do the drawing process. Next the part about not annealing brass because of no case discoloration is most likely just wrong. Some manufacturers go an extra step and clean the brass when it is finished. It just looks better to the consumer. When I started getting case separations with my 6.5 CMs, I found the problem to be excessive headspace using a Hornady comparator with a .40 bushing. Since this is the datum line diameter, I feel that it is close. I shoot a mod 12 LRP and a Ruger PR. Both the chambers show the same shoulder to base. The difference is that the LRP is .020" longer to the lands. That is a little difference in throat length, but all my bullets seat well. I have used a few different makes of brass and have found that the shoulder of his favorite was running about .007" shorter than my chambers. New brass can be sized smaller, but it has to be fireformed to stretch it. I watch for the tell tale rings on the bottom of new brass and check it with a paper clip the first and subsequent firings.. Hornady is not the short shoulder manufacturer. As far as fads go, I think that I will have my 6.5 CMs for a long time. I have never shot a round that is more forgiving of loads and bullets. I don't think I have ever had a round that would shoot half inch and smaller groups at 100 yds with factory ammo before my 6.5 CMs. The reason that I like it so much is that it's just all around good. I shoot a lot of .223 Rem, but it is unforgiving of small differences in bullets and loads. That's a round that is high maintenance to me. Let him check .223 Rem chambers and brass if he wants to make a video on factory defects. I get my fun running ladders and trying different components with the .223s. This has been sort of windy, but I think he needs to get out of the shop and shoot more and enjoy the 6.5 CM.
Windy is fine sometimes. Good write up.Quote:
This has been sort of windy
:thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by snowgetter1
Creedmoor? Never trust a cartridge named after a location in Queens, New York.
.260 Rem for me as well.
I'm sure the 6.5 Creedmoor is fine. You kids enjoy your new stuff. Just don't shoot yer eye out.
This has been my experience as well. I have 4 Creedmoors. 1 factory and 3 customs. Awesome cartridge. Blaming the cartridge because of inept ammunition and firearms manufacturers is ludicrous. My 3 customs have never fired factory ammo. And Savage rifles have been the ones with the most chamber problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvmyLRP
Might be as good of place as any to start my thirst for knowledge. I recently got a savage 12 LRP in 6.5 creedmoor, and soon as my press and dies show up im going to be trying to figure out and find a node for it. In other forums i have heard the savage 6.5 chamber will be expected to be loose, is this true. Am i wasting money buying a good set of whidden click adjust fl shoulder bump bushing dies. I know when i left to much oil in my chamber after cleaning i had some pretty bad head swipe and showed over 100 fps bump across the chrony for a couple rounds. Is there any good way for me to get really good measurements on my chamber? Maybe not the right place to ask but should you neck turn before using bushing dies.
Sorry so much i need to learn and im trying to be ready for a 1k event at camp attabury her in indiana.
I have been reloading for about 6 years but im not going to try to load precision ammo on my lee 4 hole turret. I have never loaded for more than plinking and hunting.
Thank you
Chad
Chad,There isn't any reason why you can't load precision ammo with a Lee 4 hole turret press. I've been using two of them for several decades,and I shoot pretty damn good with the ammo they produce.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peebles24
Loading precision ammo is in the details not the press you are using. Precision comes from consistency and using the components YOUR rifle likes.
After watching the die plate angle up everytime i do a step i figured there was no way i could load rounds consistent enough to hit at 1k. Granted i have loaded many sub 1 moa 200 yard rounds for hunting.
Thanks for the compliment "Kid". Since I am over 70, I feel that I can call most of the forum "Kids" I started reloading 22-250 in 1963 from 300 savage cases because I liked the idea of the round. It was a new experience in reaching out and touching. Over the years, I have tried many new rounds and liked some and not so much others. I love the 6.5 CM. The 260 Rem is a good round and I like it too. I'm just saying that I have enjoyed life by not staying in a rut. Get out there and try them all. I learned at a very early age that I could not own all the guns in the world, but I could own them one at a time and the quest continues. I love the 6.5 CM and urge others to try it and love it too. The Savage mod 12 LRP is the perfect combo for me because it fits me. My Ruger PR space gun just doesn't fit my cheek. IMHOQuote:
Originally Posted by Stumpkiller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peebles24
I go back to my original write above and repeat the flexibility of the 6.5CM round. It is very forgiving and eats a lot of loads that tack under 1/2". Watch your brass, anneal often, and check your primer pockets closely for oversize each loading. Small primer brass helps to eliminate this problem and give you many firings out of your cases. Great gun and round. Enjoy it
Mitchell Maxberry also thinks the 6.5 Creedmoor is a fad. Course Mitchell is queer for the 260 and with good reason considering. Scroll down past the load data for the rants.
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2017/0...oor-load-data/
Knowing what we know now about the 6.5 Creedmoor's military usage, I have to laugh at Mitchell Maxbury's shortsightedness regarding the 6.5 Creedmoor.
What military usage?
Maxberry is right about the original purpose and "niche" for the 6.5 CM. It would already be like the 6.5x284 by now if sales depended on competition use. Besides the 6mm is a better way to go. When you check out "what the pros use" the 6MM gets the nod in a big way. Imagine if Remington had done the marketing that Hornady did and given the 260 the support it needed. Better yet in an AI version. Bet the 6.5 CM would be a never happen. I shoot the CM in sporting rifles only because it does more than the 243 with better barrel life....but better than the 260? I don't think so.
http://soldiersystems.net/2018/03/23...adopts-6-5-cm/
Military usage. Really don't know why after the testing they picked the CM over the 260. Because of the shoulder angle I bet there will be feeding issues with the CM before all is said and done. But it is what it is and I didn't do any of the testing.
I have the same gun and shot 2k rounds through it before I put an FTR barrel on it. With quality brass and berger bullets this gun would shoot 1 hole groups at 100 yards. I'm talking, looks like you only fired one shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peebles24
Yes, it's got a lot of freebore. I ran Berger 140 Hybrids .040 off the lands and the bullet was only about 3/4 into the neck.
If you want to shoot 140's (you should) Get some h4350 and start around 41g and work up from there.
You didn't waste your money on Whidden dies. I personally don't prefer them, but I'm the minority. I prefer to use redding competition dies and their precision shell holders. No fiddling with neck bump. I just used their + .010 shell holder that adds 10 thou to the headspace over saami specs
This is where I sit I guess. Never had an issue with my 10-FPCsr.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker