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Taking the new 11 (.308) and Edge (.223) to the range in a couple days for break/sight-in.
Been researching break-in a little, the answer is just like with a Harley, some say to go through an extensive shooting/cleaning procedure, others say BS, shoot it like you stole it.
I've also heard suggestions about moly lubing the bullets, or using graphite lock spray in the bore. Is moly auto grease usable?
Feedback?
Done both, don't know that it had any effect either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by duhast
The grease contains the same stuff...........Do not put grease in your gun. I'd advise not to spray anything in there period.Quote:
Originally Posted by duhast
There are specific procedures for the things you describe, I'd take the time to familiarize yourself with the procedures thoroughly before attempting them. There are tremendous forces at work and they can work for you or against you depending on your knowledge of them. There are several really good articles online concerning the use of moly and the like.
1) Clean the guns, the barrels have been proof fired for sure.
2) Use the break-in procedure (your annealing the barrel). I use: clean after every shot for the first 10 shots, then every other for the next 20, never fire over 3 shots with out letting the barrel cool. The reason you use graphite (dry carbon, not grease) is to coat the barrel (and tighten it) before you shoot a copper bullet down it, there by reducing copper fouling, this is called squibbing. Bullets coated with moly or boron is a different story and used for a different reason. If the barrel has been oiled to protect it from corrosion (should be), run a patch with lighter fluid down it before you fire it, burnt oil is bad.
Take care of your weapons and they'll take care of you.
Congratulations on your new purchases.
Never have oil or grease in a barrel. Always dry patch it before shooting. Savage barrels are notorious for copper fouling, some a little some a lot. Have some foaming copper remover as part of your cleaning proceedure after firing maybe 20 rds. If the patches you use after the copper cleaner come out blue you know you have copper lining the bore. It may take a lot of rounds through the bore before it smooths out enough so the copper doesnt fouls so much.
Good luck.
El Lobo
I started shooting in 1963 and I have yet to "break in" a barrel. It was unheard of 15 years ago, now it's all the rage. I have yet to see any improvement come from it. Every time I go to the range there is always someone there scrubbing away with a cleaning rod. The whole thing is when we go to a break and go downrange to check our targets, their groups are never any smaller. Many times larger. I don't see any benefit. My guess is there have been far more barrels damaged by all of this cleaning and scrubbing, than have been improved. I'm noticing that I am seeing less and less of it as time goes by. I think the fad is wearing off. Bill T.
Absolutely not, DOT NOT PUT ANY GREASE IN THE BARREL!Quote:
Originally Posted by duhast
Moly coating bullets is a process using DRY POWDERED moly, and impact coating the bullets, with a micro thin film.
Using colloidal graphite (Lock Ease) is a trick that Benchrest shooters use. They run a light coat of it in the barrel to keep the first few groups together, and to keep fouling down. This is done in custom barrels.
I would not use either in your Model 11 or your Edge.
Why don't you experiment, and find out for your self if break in works. You have two guns that will shoot about identical. (I would say that the model 11 would shoot a hair better) Why don't you break on it with a shoot one clean method, and then just take the other out and shoot it, and see if you can see a difference.
Break in, cleaning, and bore solvents use, have as many different schools of thought and there is colors in the rainbow. I can say in my experience, and my findings I can no say I have ever seen a point to breaking in a barrel, and nor have I ever seen a single thread of evidence that such a procedure has ever made a ever so slight difference. Do what feels good and don't turn back.
Duhust,
First let me state that I am no expert on this subject and these experienced shooters have done or read it all. Now let me explain my feelings after having read a great deal on this topic.
Any cleaning regiment needs to be done in the correct manner to avoid possible damage to a barrel. Many of the after market high end barrel makers state that more barrels are ruined from improper cleaning than from actual firing. Again I'm no expert but I do use common sense.
Before I fired the first round through my new center fire Savage I purchased a very good bore guide. There are several but I bought a Mike Lucas guide and a one piece carbon fiber rod. I have never used anything but nylon brushes and brass jags with proper sized cotton patches and a foaming bore cleaner along with liquid bore cleaners. I clean in a one direction manner from the breech to the muzzle and never scrub a dirty brush or patch back and forth in the barrel.
Common sense tells me that grime, copper and burnt powder might not be the best thing to build up a coat on what I want to make clean and smooth to avoid fouling down the road.
From the first rounds fired a layer of the above mentioned undesirables will begin to coat the lands and grooves and protect the metal and prevent smoothing and polishing out factory imperfections. After the first 10, 20, 40 or more rounds fired you have coated the bore with an uneven layer of junk preventing any smoothing or polishing.
When you use a break in method such as clean and dry the bore, fire one, clean and dry, repeat for a few, increase the number of rounds to say five, repeat, fire 10, repeat or whatever your method you are at least giving the bore a chance at smoothing and polishing out.
Do you remember a time when automobiles engines were not built with such tight tolerances and the manufacturers recommended driving a few thousand miles at reasonable speeds to allow the engine parts to break in? There must have been a reason for that.
It is only opinion and no right or wrong method unless obviously the wrong methods such as cleaning from the muzzle end with a multi piece metal rod, have been proven to be the final word on the subject.
Some things just make more sense and others less sense. I wouldn't consider polishing or preventing consistent polishing of a precision manufactured part with uncontrolled metal residues and hot burnt and unburnt powder residues under extremely high pressures.
If done with care what harm can be done by a gentle seasoning and natural smoothing out the factory imperfections?. I do not have any issues with copper fouling and really don't see much color on patches after firing a hundred rounds at a session. Using a foaming bore cleaner followed with Butch's bore cleaner with nylon brushes, a few dry patches and a light coating with Rem oil and I'm done and clean in short order. The rifle is consistently under 1 moa with good factory ammo and is just easy to live with. I hear about all the copper fouling, the electronic cleaners, the puddle of blue left on the news paper, the hours spent on trying to get a reglected barrel to shoot and I just don't get it!!
Do whatever you feel comfortable with I guess....
Pete K. ::)
Here is the way I see it copper is not the problem most of the time.
In a clean barrel your first bullet will leave some copper fowling but what follows the bullet?
Yes all the dirty hot burnt powder coating the barrel over the copper so your second
shot is riding on top of the carbon in your barrel and adding more each shot. Copper will not coat the carbon. There fore you will have less copper than you will have carbon to clean out. the copper cleaners do a pretty good job getting the copper out but you have to get the carbon out first and there is nothing that will cut out the carbon better than wire brushs kroil mixed with Buctches boreshine and patches.
Ok... Not to beat it to death but read what Krieger Barrel Mfg has to say.
http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/Break_...246-wp2558.htm
http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm
http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html
http://www.snipercentral.com/forums/...ic.php?t=12844
In the above articles there are common suggestions. The more I search for information, I find the
same suggestions are repeated. Bottom line seems to be that if you expect the maximum
accuracy from your new barrel it needs to be broken in to reduce factory machining marks. The
second benefit is the barrel will become easier to clean. Krieger or Savage or whatever type of
barrel, if you care about precision in shooting and maintaining manufacturing tolerances why the
heck not try a careful break in regiment??
I'm Done!!
Pete K. ::)
The thing you must remember is barrel makers are in business to sell barrels. The late Gale McMillan pointed this out in a dissenting view he took of, "barrel break In's". I happen to agree with him simply because it is common sense. The questions he asks about "barrel break In's" have yet to be successfully answered to this day. Until they are, I have zero use for the entire process. You can read for yourself. Bill T.
http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html
Never have used a break-in procedure. I know just 2 years ago I was issued a brand new Colt M-4 with an ACOG for a trip to Afghanistan. This M-4 was fired until the barrel would glow hot and only cleaned when needed and still would hit a man sized target all day long at 800meters. I can asure you none of us used a breakin and all shot better than I have ever seen especially from a 14 inch barrel. My own guns I have never noticed a change. Don't believe the cleaning hype. Just shoot it and worry about other things in life rather than how many strokes are needed to satisfy the barrel of my new rifle.
as long as it shoots in a 2 inch circle i never clean the barrel,
then when it starts getting out of it i clean them, again i don`t have match grade rifles
just off the shelf stuff.