Highly disappointed in new Savage rifle and savage customer service

All,
To start I want to say I am not a competition shooter but have been around the block. I shoot quite often, I have one 2 semi-custom savages I built myself and one Remington 700. All shoot at 1MOA or better with factory ammo and will shoot close to .5MOA with my handloads. My wife is a hunter as well and currently uses one of the semi-custom savages. The problem is it is a bit on the heavier side for her to walk and stalk with (it weighs just about 10lbs with scope). We decided to get her the Savage Lady Hunter in 7mm-08. From what I can tell is this is just like the Savage American 14 series but with a cut stock that has a shorter length of pull and a higher comb which actually fits her very well. The problem is the thing Shoot something awful. We did the suggested savage barrel breakin and then shot 2 types of factory ammo. The best groups we got at 100 yards were 2inches without including the flyers. If you included the flyers we were getting 4-5 inches!!! I called savage up and they said send it in which we did. I wrote a note stating the ammo used, the barrel breakin procedure, the 3 and 5 shot groups. I also commented that the bolt knob had some rub marks from the factory (which we did not really care about but the customer service rep said mention it and they should replace it). Anyways, 2 weeks later we got the rifle back with a letter stating that the rifle shot 1 group at 1.25inches with their "premium" ammo and there is nothing more they can do. They also stated the "wear" mark on the knob is typical with use...This was a brand new rifle from factory...came like this and only had 2 ranges trips on it. Needless to say I called them back a bit upset. They said that the knob wear marks are typical with use again but I stated it came like that from YOUR factory. They then said ok they will send me a new one but there is nothing they can do about the accuracy of the rifle. They couldn't even disclose what ammo they used for their test. I know they do not have an accuracy guarantee but come on...2 inches without including the flyers is terrible in my opinion. And keep in mind that was the best 3 shot group. Forget about 5 shot groups. I am a long time Savage fan but have to admit this bugs me. You used to be able to buy a Savage and get typically right around 1moa out of the box for 3 shot groups. This was why I liked them.

Anyways sorry for the long rant. What I am really wanting to know is im thinking about bedding the rifle and once again going semi-custom and throwing a custom barrel on it. Before I put a custom barrel on it I want to see how the bedding job affects accuracy. It appears that the "bottom metal" in this rifle is actually plastic?!?!?! My guess is this would need to be replaced as I cant see the action screws being torque to 65in pounds (even though it does have pillars). Id think the plastic bottom metal would squish. I have no experience with these newer savages. Im used to the top bolt release kinds with the blind internal magazines. This one has an actually box magazine (also made out of plastic). Do I need to replace ALL of this which would be quite expensive? If so, what brands do you recommend? We simply wanted a rifle which would do 1.5MOA or better which I would have thought most Savages could do. What are all your thoughts?

I've have several of the Savage LWH rifles. IMO, they need to be bedded and the plastic bottom bolt release trigger guard replaced with a metal trigger guard. You will notice the plastic trigger guard is thin and very weak under the rear action screw which I believe allows the rear of the action to flex under recoil. I've actually had the rear action screw loosen over time with recoil. If you torque the action screws to 65 in-lb, you are most likely going to crack/break the plastic or stock. I use 30 in-lbs. The plastic DBM frame assembly is OK. I also bed the DBM frame assembly under the action screw stress points. The Savage OEM metal DBM frame assembly and bottom magazine cap will also work in this stock if you prefer metal over plastic.

I've also had to adjust my bench shooting technique to shrink groups with these LW rifles and 20" FW barrels. I've found you must hold the forearm very firmly on the rest and control the muzzle jump and side torque caused by the bullet rotation down the tube. Otherwise, I could never get consistent groups which was very frustrating. Also, the FW barrels heat up very quickly and must be allowed to cool completely after three rounds, or you won't see anything but shotgun groups and fliers.

As you know, you should get smaller groups with handloads. My Savage 16 LWH in 7mm08 with factory plastic stock likes RL 15 and Varget with 140 gr or 150-154 gr bullets. The Hornady American Whitetail ammo is usually a good factory load to try in these rifles. Once I bedded the action, recoil lug, hollow area in front of the recoil lug and installed a metal trigger guard I was happy with the groups. I also experimented with adding a 8 lb barrel pressure point at the forearm tip to dampen barrel whip. It helped shrink my 3-shot groups to a consistent 0.75" @100 and eliminated the visible forearm flex.

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Originally Posted by jpdown

I've have several of the Savage LWH rifles. IMO, they need to be bedded and the plastic bottom bolt release trigger guard replaced with a metal trigger guard. You will notice the plastic trigger guard is thin and very weak under the rear action screw which most likely allows the rear of the action to flex with recoil. The rear action screw will loosen over time with recoil from my experience. If you torque the action screws to 65 in-lb, you are most likely going to crack/break the plastic. I use 30 in-lbs. The plastic DBM frame assembly is OK. I also bed the DBM frame assembly under the action screw stress points. The Savage OEM metal DBM frame assembly and bottom magazine cap will also work in this stock if you prefer bottom metal over plastic.

I've also had to adjust my bench shooting technique to shrink groups with these LW rifles and 20" FW barrels. I've found you must hold the forearm firmly on the rest and control the muzzle jump and sideways cant caused by the bullet rotation down the tube. Otherwise, I could not get consistent groups which was very frustrating. Also, the FW barrels heat up very quickly and must be allowed to cool completely after three rounds, or you won't see anything but shotgun groups and fliers.

As you know, you should get smaller groups with handloads. My Savage 16 LWH in 7mm08 with factory plastic stock likes RL 15 and Varget with 140 gr or 150-154 gr bullets. The Hornady American Whitetail ammo is usually a good factory load to try in these rifles. Once I bedded the action, recoil lug, hollow area in front of the recoil lug and installed a metal trigger guard I was happy with the groups. I also experimented with adding a 8 lb barrel pressure point at the forearm tip to dampen barrel whip. It helped shrink my 3-shot groups to a consistent 0.75" @100.

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So the only plastic part I should consider replacing is the plastic trigger guard...the plastic magazine housing is ok? I don't really care about plastic just most concerned about being able to torque the action screws down to the right amount. Where should I buy the metal trigger guard? I know the trigger guards on my older rifle do not fit this one so how do I know im buying the correct one? Thanks!

Maybe it is this one? http://www.gunshack.com/savage-parts...m-bolt-release

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Originally Posted by jpdown

I've also had to adjust my bench shooting technique to shrink groups with these LW rifles and 20" FW barrels. I've found you must hold the forearm very firmly on the rest and control the muzzle jump and side torque caused by the bullet rotation down the tube. Otherwise, I could never get consistent groups which was very frustrating. Also, the FW barrels heat up very quickly and must be allowed to cool completely after three rounds, or you won't see anything but shotgun groups and fliers.

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I struggle shooting light rifles but I love to hunt with them. When sighting them in I don't worry about having a firm grip on the forearm, rather I lay my hand across the top of the scope. I find this works better for me, and I shoot very similar to what Mark Baneser does in this video.

I'll defer to others as to how to fix physical issues with the LWH as I've never even held one. My light rifle is a 7lb M70 FWT in .30-06 in McMillan Edge, it has been difficult to keep it under 1" with anything heavier than 165 grains. Recoil gets quite stout with 180+ grain bullets.

My Savage 11 in 7mm-08 shot 2" groups at 100 yds with Remington 140 gr PSP Core lokts. I bedded the action went to reloads. I currently shoot 140 gr BTSP Sierras and get 2" groups at 200 yds. I also changed the plastic trigger guard with a stainless steel one. I think I got it from Brownell's.

Switching to metal bottom parts is better than the plastic if you want the most accuracy potential from your Savage LWH. Since www.SavageArms.com revised their web page several months ago, I don't believe you can pull up parts and order direct online anymore. Contact Savage Arms Parts by phone with your rifle serial number and order the new style metal bottom bolt release trigger guard, SA matte metal DBM frame assembly(surround) and magazine bottom cap by phone. Your current metal magazine box and follower will snap onto the new metal bottom cap. Then everything will be metal on metal when your torque down the action screws. The following article http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...Parts-Tutorial explains the different bottom parts. I have two Savage LWH factory walnut stocks in SA and LA that I have replaced the plastic bottom parts with metal. Switching to the metal bottom parts will add about 9 oz to the overall weight of the rifle verses the plastic. The picture below is Savage LWH, LA stock with metal bottom parts.

25 inch pounds - wooden stocks
45 inch pounds - plastic stocks
65 inch pounds - composite stocks

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Originally Posted by Hotolds442

25 inch pounds - wooden stocks
45 inch pounds - plastic stocks
65 inch pounds - composite stocks

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I think that is correct but does not account for pillars. I believe when you have metal pillars you can torque to 65

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Originally Posted by jpdown

Switching to metal bottom parts is better than the plastic if you want the most accuracy potential from your Savage LWH. Since www.SavageArms.com revised their web page several months ago, I don't believe you can pull up parts and order direct online anymore. Contact Savage Arms Parts by phone with your rifle serial number and order the new style metal bottom bolt release trigger guard, SA matte metal DBM frame assembly(surround) and magazine bottom cap by phone. Your current metal magazine box and follower will snap onto the new metal bottom cap. Then everything will be metal on metal when your torque down the action screws. The following article http://www.savageshooters.com/conten...Parts-Tutorial explains the different bottom parts. I have two Savage LWH factory walnut stocks in SA and LA that I have replaced the plastic bottom parts with metal. Switching to the metal bottom parts will add about 9 oz to the overall weight of the rifle verses the plastic. The picture below is Savage LWH, LA stock with metal bottom parts.

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After looking at all of that it would appear the only important pieces to be metal should be the trigger guard since an action screw goes through that. Does the front action screw touch the plastic box housing at all or is it direct to the pillar? Reason I ask is the box housing will be super expensive.

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Originally Posted by Hotolds442

25 inch pounds - wooden stocks
45 inch pounds - plastic stocks
65 inch pounds - composite stocks

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i don't mean for this to get off topic, but in the case of wood stocks, does that include laminated wood stocks?

thanks
Richard

The Savage LWH plastic DBM frame assembly (surround) has a metal eyelet in the front screw hole. It is suppose to line up with the front stock pillar and support the screw head. I thought it was a possible problem area. I bed under the eyelet to make sure it has a firm base, since the factory pillars are sometimes not always flush with the bottom of the hole. Switching the plastic trigger guard to metal and bedding would be my first priority. As mentioned in my first post, changing out the plastic Axis-style DBM assembly is less critical to accuracy potential IMO.

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Originally Posted by jpdown

The Savage LWH plastic DBM frame assembly (surround) has a metal eyelet in the front screw hole. It is suppose to line up with the front stock pillar and support the screw head. I thought it was a possible problem area. I bed under the eyelet to make sure it has a firm base, since the factory pillars are sometimes not always flush with the bottom of the hole. Switching the plastic trigger guard to metal and bedding would be my first priority. As mentioned in my first post, changing out the plastic Axis-style DBM assembly is less critical to accuracy potential IMO.

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thank you. I figured what the heck might as go big. I decided to order all the metal parts (were not to bad from savage...24$ for metal trigger guard, 75$ for metal box, and 10$ for metal parts to convert the plastic magazine to work with the metal box). If the rifle remains under 8.5lbs (including scope) ill leave the metal magazine housing in. Ill give her a few shots with out bedding just to see if changing to metal did anything. Then I will have it bedded.

Your plastic bottom magazine will work with the new bottom metal, all you have to do is cut off the plastic latch.

I've had good luck with Savages customer service. My mdl 16 in 260 shot horrible no matter what I fed it. After two and a half years I was considering re barreling it but decided to have a bore scope ran through it, the bore was awful. I called Savage customer service was instructed to return it. After six weeks I got it back with a new barrel at no charge. It's ready to shoot but I'm going to wait until the bore can be scoped again.

My first model 11 in .308 didn't really start shooting well until about 100-150 rounds through the tube. After that, it was so accurate (with my handloads) it was boring. I gave it to my brother and now he's getting bored with it. LOL

My advice is run some more ammo through that gun.

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Originally Posted by Newtosavage

My first model 11 in .308 didn't really start shooting well until about 100-150 rounds through the tube. After that, it was so accurate (with my handloads) it was boring. I gave it to my brother and now he's getting bored with it. LOL

My advice is run some more ammo through that gun.

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I have heard about this as well but that is just crazy to me. These rifles might be good for 1000 shots and to spend 15% of the rifles life to wait for accuracy is dumb. This rifle is not a bottom of the barrel cheap rifle. It was $750 dollars. Thought about going Tikka (with accuracy guarantee) but my wife unfortunately does not fit their stocks at all.

I have purchased two Savage rifles, my first and my last!!! Mine is the model 12 LPV, that wife bought me for Christmas.

I second the Hornady American White tail ammo. It's cheap and it shoots great through my stock 110 30-06. Plus you'll have some nice once-fired Hornady brass when you're done. My 30-06 shot very poorly with some other hunting ammo, but the whitetail stuff is about .75MOA and my reloads with SSTs are even better, way better than a pencil barrel should shoot. Remember that these thin profile barrels are much more finicky with harmonics and tuning a reload should help considerably. Have you tried working up a reload for your wife's gun yet? I'm also curious if the metal parts improved its grouping... I've been planning on doing the same with my 10T. I can't stand the cheapo plastic.

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Originally Posted by Chrazy-Chris

I second the Hornady American White tail ammo. It's cheap and it shoots great through my stock 110 30-06. Plus you'll have some nice once-fired Hornady brass when you're done. My 30-06 shot very poorly with some other hunting ammo, but the whitetail stuff is about .75MOA and my reloads with SSTs are even better, way better than a pencil barrel should shoot. Remember that these thin profile barrels are much more finicky with harmonics and tuning a reload should help considerably. Have you tried working up a reload for your wife's gun yet? I'm also curious if the metal parts improved its grouping... I've been planning on doing the same with my 10T. I can't stand the cheapo plastic.

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Hornady was actually one of the worst shooting. I have not worked up a load yet. I do reload and will try working a load but I always try to look for a factory load that works decent with every rifle I buy. By decent I mean anything around 1.25MOA or better. I have ordered the bottom metal and installed it to see if that helps at all. I will now be able to torque both action screws more snug than before. We shall see.

What's worse is stupid savage stripped the back trigger screw hole. Now I need to fill with some wood glue. Annoying...