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Ok I want a super flat accurate rifle for calling coyotes and am thinking one of these two calipers leaning more to the 20 cal thinking that it might be a hair more fur friendly. Plus most of the heavy 22 cal bullets are match stuff and I know Black Hole 55g 20 cal bullets work good on coyotes. Any help would be great.
I've heard guys leaving the .204 Ruger because it didnt put them down. It kills em sure, but they lost ones with a .204 they would not have with a .223 or 22-250. Not sure what you gain with a 20-240 in that case.
How far are you shooting? Seems like the .20 cal would be limited if you are reaching out. While .224 cal bullets are proven.
Why the exotic chambering and not .204 Ruger or 22-250? Or, 220 swift? Just the super flatness? I'm genuinely curious. Do you have data on them?
Actually this is the 20-250 and a 55g 20 cal bullet will have a higher bc then a .224 cal of the same grain bullet would have. Yes I have read some stuff just haven't figured out exactly what I want to do yet. The 55 g 20-250 would shot flatter and have less windage then a 55 g 22-250.
The 20-250 sure sounds interesting with a 55gr bullet as a dedicated coyote rig. What size bullet would you shoot in the .22 caliber?
In the 22-250 I have currently I have shot 52-65g but they don't get nearly as fast as what the 20-250 would push them. The 20cal 55 g bullet still has a higher Bc then them bullets in the 22 because to make the bullet the same weight in a smaller caliper they are longer which gives them there higher bc which will give them a better trajectory.
I like the idea of the 20-250.
You might not like the idea of a 500 rd barrel life.
I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. So more bearing surface with a .204 55gr pill, how is it getting there any faster than same weight .224 cal 55gr projectile, with brass being the same?
I'd love to see some data to back this one up.. just doubtful on real world application.. where is the data coming from?
.220 swift, 50g Vmax over 4064. 4100 fps of coyote grenade. I cannot remember a bullet exiting. They sure don't run away after being hit with one.
As as to the smaller caliber bullet- it makes complete sense. A 140 from a 7-08 does not go as fast nor does it have the ballistic coefficient of a 140g from a .260, which is the same parent case. You get a longer bullet and more pressure because you are pushing the same amount of lead down a smaller bore which in turn will give you more velocity.
A 140gr 7mm-08 with H4350 has a velocity spread of 2692-2868, with 140gr 260 has a spread of 2530-2677. I'm sure the bullets are slightly different, but that rule stands, more bearing surface less velocity. I'm simply stating speed from the muzzle. I'm not talking retaining velocity, wind deflection, anything but pure bad ass American speed. What they are doing at 100 is a different story.
Bearing surface between 2 bullets of the same weight and caliber will be the only thing you changed, so a longer bearing surface may increase resistance enough to lower the speed. We aren't talking about the same caliber, it's a smaller hole, using similar powder charges, pushing the same weight bullet. The change in diameter outweighs the change in bearing surface, increasing the pressure.
The 7-08 and .260 were bad examples because a 140 7mm bullet is nothing like (shape, construction, use) a 140 6.5 bullet. I also Wouldnt rely on that book data. I regularly see .260's well above 2700 using h4350. I have not seen a 7-08 that pushes a 140 more than 2750, but I only have experience with one and we shot facory ammo out of it.
How about 223 Remington with a 36gr bullet, H335, 3647-3790, 20 practical same powder, 36gr bullet 3518-3751. I'm not talking about what you can stuff in a case and pull the trigger. I'm talking about what you can keep in safe pressue margins, not just what your primer looks like. Yes you will create more pressure with a smaller bore and same weight bullet. Its longer, its going to happen. I load for the 338 federal and 308. 30-06 and 338-06. I'm just observing, and still not seeing any data from this round. Trying to help someone understand that yes it will go fast, but the pressures increase with long slippery bullets. All load data is taken off Hodgdons website, and the pressure of the max load of practical is 1k more than the 223.
My 25/300wsm makes a mess of them.lol
People have no idea what a 90gr blitzking will do to yote when it leaves the muzzle around 3900fps
22x47L.
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Why not a 22-250? Fast, accurate and available just about anywhere centerfire ammo is sold.
I reload so ammo not even a consideration I know this round is a barrel burner that's why I'm planning on a savage build it going to be for calling coyotes and that's it. It will shoot flatter have less wind drift and have more energy then a 22-250. All about bullet bc. If you google search there is some information on this round quit a few stuff on predator masters too. Was just trying to get some more advice from some of the savage pros around here that have built off these rifles before.
I can tell you for a fact, because I have a 20x47 Lapua that will shoot 55 Bergers @ 3875 fps, and will cut through the wind better than any 6 mm bullet clear out to 1000 yds. It is probably the flattest shooting caliber on the planet. From a 200 yd zero, it only needs 14.5 moa elevation to get to 1K. The time of flight is so fast you can't even see a bullet wake. Stan Taylor of Douglas Barrels shoots one very regular at 1000 yd matches and actually wins.
Down side is barrel life, my first barrel lasted about 600 rds before it lost it's guilt edge, and at 800 it was toast.
20x47 sounds crazy. Now I think I need one...
223 wssm
22-284
Those will shoot flatter than the 20-250 and hit with twice the authority !
22-284 can get 55 grainers at 4,000 fps in a 26" bbl with out reaching 60,000 psi.
223 wssm will also easily get 4,000 fps with 55 grainers in a 26" bbl but at the expense of slightly higher pressure than the 22-284, but still well within safe pressure levels.
A big 20 cal would be great with the 55 Berger IF IT LIKES them. The twist required to shoot them will mean its a 1 bullet gun.
I played with a 204 a lot and the 55gr wont even begin to think about stabilizing in a 10 twist. Mine shot PATTERNS with the 55.
For PBR style setups the 20 cal and 55gr would be tough to beat. As to killing power.....A guy I know shot a bunch of deer with the 32 and 40gr and a 204....and they all died and quite quickly.
I still want to build a big 20 for that Berger, just have too many other projects for now.
Pardon me. Good luck on your build.Quote:
Originally Posted by zr600
MUZZLE Velocity of a bullet WITH PRESSURES BEING EQUAL will ALWAYS favor the larger diameter bullet. It is based on a formula that gets velocity from the square of the base dia of the bullet. In the example above 260 vs 7-08, the larger dia 7mm bullet will exit the muzzle faster, but possibly, due to BC's, the smaller diameter bullet MIGHT retain more velocity down range.
A 20 cal, exerting the SAME pressure on a 55gr bullet will have a LOWER MV than a 22 cal exerting the SAME pressure on a 55gr bullet. What happens after than depends on bullet design.
Ok after talking to my barrel suplier he thinks I would be better off with a 22-243 shooting a 80 a max or 90 Berger. So I think this might be the route I go because I have more bullet options with the 20 I only have 2 bullets to pick from and if both them didn't work then the gun wouldn't do what's i want it to. There is hornady bullets sierras bullets and bergers to choose from. We're the heavy 20 cal there's the Berger 55 and the black hole 55 and that's it.
On ANY caliber comparison, when comparing the SAME WEIGHT BULLET with the SAME PRESSURES from 2 different calibers, and same barrel length, the larger diameter bullet will ALWAYS go faster. It's physics. Velocity is a result of the pressure squared by the base (diameter) of the bullet. So a larger diameter bullet of the same weight, fired with the same pressures, will be faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by schnyd112
Hydraulics works the same way, a 2" piston pushed by 3,000 psi of pressure will NOT produce as much force as a 3" piston pushed by 3,000 psi.
The only difference in cartridges, is usually the smaller diameter bullet will produce the same pressure with slightly less powder. But a 20-250 with a 55gr load, will NOT be faster then a 22-250 with a 55gr load, AT THE SAME PRESSURE.
I say forget the 2 calibers you mention and go with a 243 with long barrel, 8 twist In case you want to go to a 105gr bullet later, otherwise a 9twist), and a 80-90gr high BC bullet. You will have a 600yd coyote slammin machine.