I see that you can convert a Remington 700 to the Savage style of barrel and nut configuration. Is there any real advantage to this other than being able to switch barrels more easily? How popular and/or expensive is this conversion? I see Mcgowan has barrels and nuts for this and PTG has all kinds of 700 paraphernalia.
Which do you think is the better basic action, the Savage or Remington?
They'll both shoot just as accurate, but I think you'll find more aftermarket support for the Rem700. Better triggers and less confusion in selecting parts for a build. I built a number of Savages before I went to a full custom action and run it with a barrel nut, but better operation and parts compatibility. I believe the Remington will offer better extraction and ejection as well.
I have owned 4 different savage action based rifles and am presently working on assembling a Remage 300 winmag rifle. In addition to the points made by LoneWolf I would like to add that initial cost of new Savages are less than Rems. Finding a Savage donor is easier than a Rem and is usually less expensive.
Change in caliber with different cartridge base size in a Savage requires only change in bolt head versus a total bolt change in a Rem or gunsmith work to change the size.
I switched from remington to savage. I persanaly prefer the versatility of the bolt head, bolt handle and of course..... The nut.
I prefer the standard accurrigger so for me better triggers are something only remigtons need.
I don't do gunsmiths so savage becomes the obvious choice. Stock selection is not dificult for either one as long as you pay attention.
In the end..... I have had better accuracy from untrued savages than i ever did from untrued remingtons although they are equaly capable with the right assembly process, savage is just a hole lot easier to do yourself.
The Savage floating bolt head makes inherent accuracy much easier to achieve. No blueprinting necessary. Something else that often gets overlooked, but that some people (like me) prefer is that the Savage has a 3 position safety.
The Savage removeable bolt head is a revolution to me. It really obviates one piece bolts...this is coming from a former Mauser guy. Combined with the removeable barrel/nut system it is just the cats a$$.
I just met with the guy who makes the Evolution bipod, and he showed me the new action he's going to start selling soon. It's a Remington based action but uses a floating bolt head and is threaded for savage barrels using a barrel nut. Pretty sweet setup, and he's planning to sell them for about $800. That makes it realistic to be able to build a custom gun with a Timney trigger, criterion barrel, and KRG chassis for about $1800.
Shilen already does that with their DGR/DGV actions. Also the Mausingfield has that capability as well.
I'm just glad that all my shooting needs can be met with "eye ball" size groups. That way my Stevens 200 actions will continue to serve me quite well. Wish I had lived close to an Academy Sports when they were selling complete rifles for $175. Oh well, I'm already "enabled" way beyond where I need to be anyway. ;-)
I know, but they don't come anywhere close to $800...Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
My problem is that every time I build a rifle, I spend a lot of time trying to get good deals on parts, saving every penny I can, and suddenly I have a gun that shoots really well (which for a savage means any gun with a good barrel). Then I realize, crap! Now I need a scope that's good enough for the rifle! In the case of Savages, that's usually more expensive than the entire gun... :(
I have a number of Savages that I like, and they have performed well. A few months ago I put together a Remage using a Stiller action, and there are a number of other custom clones. It is nice to have the wider selection of support in terms of stocks, triggers, etc. which allows for a bit more customization. Does it shoot better, no. But the action is definitely higher precision in fit and operation. On the other hand I would go to the expense to purchase a Rem action and pay to have it trued and upgraded.
My biggest issues with Savage actions are weak extraction/ejection and poor feeding. They always shot lights out, but getting the next round in the chamber was my biggest issue. Not a problem if you're single loading or just playing at the range. Big problem if you want to be competitive in Precision Rifle matches and you're on the clock.
I was always having to manually eject the round from the action or assist the bolt in feeding the next round off the mag with my Savage action and a Shilen DGR that uses the Savage bolt head. The Remington actions offer a few more fixes for these issues that a Gunsmith can do than the Savage action does.
I ended up going to a full custom action after playing with a few I settled on the M5 from American Rifle Company. This action remedied all the issues I was having and still allows easy barrel swaps along with a replaceable bolt head. It's a lot higher cost, but I sold off all my Savage actions and parts to make the upgrade.
I guess from a home gunsmith point of view I would like to see a rifle action that has the following attributes:
1) Remington 700 footprint...large aftermarket support for stocks
2) Ability to take Remington 700 triggers....again, large aftermarket selection
3) Use Savage barrel and barrel nut...lots of pre-fit barrels out there.
4) Use Savage bolt heads...both Savage and PTG make bolt heads in almost any size.
5) Interchangeable bolt handles with Savage or Remington
6) Takes Remington or Savage bottom metal for maximum magazine compatibility
I think if you make a killer high quality receiver in different lengths that is finished like a Swiss watch that takes advantage of all these aftermarket triggers, bolt heads, bolt handles and barrels the home gunsmith would be in heaven. It would be like having a rifle made of Lego's.
What else could be done to make it more versatile? Maybe something with scope mounts...
There are already actions on the market that have all that. The Savage bolt head is just as much a blessing as it is a curse.
Shilen DGR and DGV is a Remy footprint that uses Savage bolt heads and small shank barrel tenon.
Bighorn also makes an action with Savage Small Shank barrel tenon.
American Rifle Company's Mausingfield uses a Savage Small Shank barrel tenon.
You can can also "Remage" any action that uses the Remington barrel tenon.
So really everything you list is already out there and more.
To me, the Mausingfield made it to number 1 and that's what I'm running now. I'll let you do your own research though.
I have read that the Shilen doesn't use Savage bolt heads...
PTG makes the bolts and bolt heads, and Stiller makes the action.
Remington Timney Calvin Elite Trigger... Try one and you'll be hooked.
I like both for different reasons. The Savage is nice for the ease of installation (no need to inlet the receiver to keep the recoil lug indexed), and I like the Rem/Age for the plethora of aftermarket options you can choose from. You really can't go wrong either way!