repeatability with barrel swaps

Hello All,
Kind of a silly question here- I guess I am plagued by having too many savages that shoot too darn good to tear apart for a build. I have bought 4 savage/stevens rifles (7-08, .243, 270, 30-06) recently to use as donor actions, but thought I would shoot them first, and they all shoot great for sporter barreled hunting rifles (about .75" and a little less with the .243 - with little to no load development too). Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there has a hunting rifle that they rebarrel and restock during varmint season and then switch back for deer hunting, and if so does it still shoot just as good? I don't know why anything wouldn't, but sometimes the stars don't always re-align just right if you know what I mean... I want to rebarrel and restock my 7-08 to a 22br or a .204 ( I have both barrels, a bvss stock and a .223 bolt head) but I may also want to put it back to factory configs for deer season. If I do this can I expect the same great accuracy that it had before I tore it apart? I have built a couple savages from just the actions that I have bought and they worked great so this isn't my first time building one. Just curious as to the repeatability.
Thanks All,
placek59

I have a Savage LA set up to use a .260 Remington Lightweight Sin Arm barrel for deer and a .204 Ruger factory sporter barrel for varmints. I use Go and NoGo gages for headspacing consistency. I do not have any problems chambering factory loads and see no measurable change in accuracy. I also reload, so I recheck my chamber length and bullet seating depth after swapping barrels just to make sure I don't have any suprises with the reloads. Both barrels shoot better than 0.5" MOA most days with the right loads which is more than fine for deer, hogs and Pdogs. So with the calibers you listed, I would just swap barrels and shoot'em.

If you understand the steps you're doing then you should be able to answer your own questions.

Here is a “trick” that BillPA (moderator) suggested to me quite a while ago, when I ask him the same question about repeatability on switching barrels.” I’m consistently switching between my 223, 22-250, & Rem. 6MM.


His suggestion which I had my b-i-l ( a machinist) do is to “pin the recoil lug.

Per his suggestion, we took the recoil lug ( SSS) & drilled, I think a .071 hole in the top of it. Put a pin in it, & dimpled the action at the same place. Then rebeded the recoil lug.

What this does is, is make the recoil lug “snug”, & always line up exactually to the action/barrel when switching barrels.

I can’t say this has increased my accuracy, but when switching barrels, I don't do much scope adjustments. I just know the recoil lug is snug to the action, & there is no slop.

As you know it’s a hit/miss to get the recoil lug back to the same exact point when changing barrels, due to the manufacturing tolerances.

Using BillPa method, the recoil lug always returns to the same place.

Maybe he could comment on it, & show a few pictures of how he did it.

Another of BillPa “accuracy tip”

I wouldn't hesitate to change barrels, mine have always shot just as well as they did before and in a couple of cases they were significantly better in the accuracy department!

Bob

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Just like people should not re-marry the same woman after getting a divorce...

Folks should not re-install barrels back on the same action.

The barrel should go on a different action once it has been removed.


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The wife is obvious. Based on the previous posts, why do you feel that way ? Is your experience any different ? Other than marketing/sales, why would Savage make the system the way it is if it is a no brainer no-no ?

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If you check the number of barrels and actions and calculate all the possible combinations of barrels and actions then you will realize there is no need to ever use the same combination twice.


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My limited experience with only 2 actions and 4 barrels to play with has shown that repeatability is most definitely there...(give or take minimal scope adjustments)....A one piece scope base seems to make this better....but even with the two piece mount you only have to remove one for the action wrench....My next move may be to make or buy a barrel vise so the scope mounts can stay on.....

Last weekend I changed barrels twice and shot them before/after and in between....I have a pre accutrigger with a Timney on a B&C duramax and a pre-66 with the factory trigger on a wood stock (that early factory trigger is surprisingly sweet).....I fitted both triggers to each action...and found that the old style trigger worked best on the old action and it eventually found its way back home....The two barrels were both 25-06s..one a SSS Douglas 26" Varmint and the other a Adam's & Bennet sporter from Midway.....because of wind nothing shot better than .5s but both shot equally well in each action (the A & B only shot .8s and .9s) but with loads developed for another 25-06 (My Rem 700).....

When all was said and done each barrel ended up on its original stock but the actions and triggers found a new home....Scopes found new actions with very little adjustment....The 100 yard elevation plate is only off by two clicks on the Mueller/Douglas combination.....and only 8 clicks windage.....

My guess is one gun, one scope and two barrel combinations should be a breeze to keep track of scope changes.....Next weekend I should have the head space gauge to try a .243 barrel on one or both of the actions...I certainly would not be afraid of your proposed swapping as long as a shooting range is handy to check your work (mine happens to be in my back yard).......

Good Luck,
Randy

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Originally Posted by Hammer

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Just like people should not re-marry the same woman after getting a divorce...

Folks should not re-install barrels back on the same action.

The barrel should go on a different action once it has been removed.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flouncer

The wife is obvious. Based on the previous posts, why do you feel that way ? Is your experience any different ? Other than marketing/sales, why would Savage make the system the way it is if it is a no brainer no-no ?

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LOL You're dealing with a mathematical statistician. LOL He never miss a chance for research.

Randy,

my set up is, the three barrels mentioned, ( 2 McGowan, & 1 Shilen, 26" varmint countour) in a VLP (made to a single shot) , with two complete bolts ( 223, & 22-250/6mm) that SSS has T&T the action/bolts, SSS trigger, with a Bushnell Elite 4200 8X 32.

I never remove the scope. I made a wood barrel vice out of some scrap wood that with a " clamp" ( I use a cheap pr. I bought at Lowes) , I can change barrels most any place I can get a clamp on. a table, chair, bench, etc.

the space between the scope & the barrel is just enough to get the SSS wrench to the barrel nut, so I never have to touch the mounting of the scope.

works for me, & from what I have read from other members, seems like a lot of members have a similar set up to change there barrels.

".....Just like people should not re-marry the same woman after getting a divorce..."

I beg to differ, but that's a whole different story.

uj

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LOL You're dealing with a mathematical statistician. LOL He never miss a chance for research.

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Who has more barrels and actions than he can count.

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Wouldn't know such things.

But rumor has it that two more "Last 220 Swifts Ever Made" barrels are about to join the three most recent ones delivered.

And there might be three, wait, four, heck seven more actions on the way.


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Originally Posted by BrentWin

Quote:

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LOL You're dealing with a mathematical statistician. LOL He never miss a chance for research.

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Who has more barrels and actions than he can count.

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that might be me, Hammer can count!

I have been working on a swap barrel project and was wondering how to get the recoil lug on in the same place for the same reasons that were discussed. So, last week I started on an action vice that will let you relocate the recoil lug in the exactly same place every time. The proto type is almost ready. It will also allow you to swap barrels with out removing the scope or possible damage to the trigger group. The one draw back is, it can only be used with one action. Do to the fact that the action will need to be bedded to it, like your stock for an exact fit for more than one reason.

I will post pictures at a later date when the gun is finished.

Regards Mike.

LOL been doing that for a few years Mike. ;D

http://i39.tinypic.com/xkrtbl.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/ruqtl3.jpg

Locating the lug is easy too.
http://i28.tinypic.com/258xoon.jpg

The fixture is made from a barrel stub, a big old flat slotted washer and a 3/8" allen head cap screw. The stub goes through the lug, threads in the receiver then the bolt tightened after locating the lug to clamp it in place. The top pin hole is drilled in the lug and a fitted pin in the bottom with a slight interference fit prior to installing it in the fixture. The receiver is "dimpled" about a 1/16" then a pin pressed in the lug. The pin stays with the lug. Even if the lug is removed at some point it always will go back on in the same exact position regardless how much slop there is between the lug bore and barrel threads.

With the fitted bottom pin and the one at the top the lug cannot move up-down, left-right when swapping barrels. But, you'll want to install the pins prior to bedding.

Bill

With the slight differences in barrel diameters plus the clearance needed , recoil lugs tend to shift slightly in rotation when tightened, usually with the key being the axis of rotation. If your lug is bedded snug, this will cause for some stress when drawn down in the stock, usually pushing the barrel to one side.
Instead of trying to locate the lug perfect in every barrel swap, there is an easier way. Whenever I bed a rifle that I know that will be receiving several barrels, I use an oversize recoil lug that is +.020" over all around the periphery, and +.020" on the thickness. I use this just for bedding purposes and replace it with the intended lug when I'm through bedding. This creates enough clearance to compensate for lug shift and not bind things up.