What makes a barrel good/bad?

I know the question seems to be a simple one, but I thought that I would get some opinions. I've read statements by others on a different thread that the way a barrel "looks" has nothing to do with the way a barrel "shoots". Basically that a crappy finished barrel can shoot lights out, and a beautifully finished barrel may not shoot at all.

So, my question to all of you; "When looking, shooting, buying a barrel what do you look for as far as quality, craftsmanship, and accuracy issues are concerned?" How is one to gauge that their hard earned money isn't being thrown away? If I can buy a factory used barrel with thousands of rounds for $50 that can out shoot a custom $300-400 dollar barrel, what's a guy to think? There has to be a set of checks and balances when dealing with this right? I realize you can get some exceptional factory barrels, and some lemon custom barrels. My question is "why"?

When it comes to paying money for your rifle/barrel, what do you think should be met as far as you expectations go?

I'd like to hear from you, the customer and your expectations.

I would also like to hear from any that actually work on barrels. I know that there are gunsmiths, and those who do work on barrels here on this forum. I know we have vendors that sell barrels on this forum as well. How do you converse, and deal with an unsatisfied individual?

Please let me in one what your conversations would be like from one angle to another when talking about what makes a barrel good, or bad?

I am far from an expert, just like to tinker.

Not sure why one will shoot and one will not. On factoy barrels the biggest problem I have found is the crown off center to the bore. A barrel that has a bore off center to the OD still seems to shoot good as long as the crown is centered with the bore.

I have yet to buy a blank that I wasnt happy with. (3 Kriegers, 2Lilja's, 2shilen;s,1 Douglas, and 1 A&B)
I have gotten better groups consitantly out of the Kriegers but all of the others shot above expectation.

Carlos, If you figure out why one is good and one is bad, let me know PLEASE!

Steve

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Originally Posted by stevec

I am far from an expert, just like to tinker.

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That's me too !

I think that most barrels will shoot well, the real secret that separates a great barrel from the rest of the pack is the quality of the machine work that is done to the blank to turn it into a barrel. The crown and chamber simply must be concentric to the bore to get the best from a given blank. There are other considerations too, the internal finish is important as well as the uniformity of the bore but these are tough for the average guy to assess unless you have a bore scope and an air gauge. I think most barrels are capable of sub moa accuracy if correctly fitted and chambered but if you want a real "bell ringer" that maintains accuracy without excessive fouling and the best accuracy possible, spend your hard earned dollars on a premium blank and have it fit and finished by a top gunsmith. When I'm shopping for a new barrel I usually look at the current bench rest equipment lists and see what the winners are using and go from there.

Just one guys opinion!

Bob

Bob, I agree but, I have seen 1 barrel (with a bore scope) That looked like a sundried alligator inside. It shot like nobodys buisness! I beleive that if you spend close to $300 ona blank it will shoot good.

Steve

From the other conversation about Savage barrel quality...apparently not cosmetics. ;D
Must be something else. Like having the chamber in perfect alignment with the bore and the bore being as uniform as possible. Like the other post says having the bore concentric to the barrel makes it a lot easier to achieve all of the above.

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I think that most barrels will shoot well, the real secret that separates a great barrel from the rest of the pack is the quality of the machine work that is done to the blank to turn it into a barrel. The crown and chamber simply must be concentric to the bore to get the best from a given blank.

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I agree. I have a custom barrel that I ordered in 25-06. I shot OK, but just OK. I decided that it needed to be a 25-06 AI. I sent it off to Devin at Sinarms to be set back, rechambered and recrowned.

It was a completely different barrel when it got back. Even while fireforming brass, it shot groups 1/2 the size of before.

Unfortunately barrel buying is a crap shoot, there is not way to tell what your going to get.. Majority of shooters will never know the potential of their barrels.

The ultimate barrel is a "hummer," and they are rare. A hummer barrel will be forgiving of mistakes, it will shoot through errors, and make the shooter look good. Many shooters could have a hummer barrel and never know it.

A lot of benchrest shooter I know order a minimum of 4 barrels from the same maker, at the beginning of a season, and will only shoot one. The reason why is the hopes of finding that hummer barrel. I have been told about Tony Boyer, that he gets a few hundred barrels a year, and out of them all he only excepts a small few. I was told if you ever buy a barrel from Tony to buy the one with the highest round count. The reason why is, he must have seen some potential with the barrel, and did not give up on it. (The low round count barrels are one he gave up on early) I have also been told Tony shoots thousands of rounds a week.

So to attempt to answer your question, there is no way of knowing, buying brand x barrel is no guarantee. Each barrel has it own personality, no two are a like. The only way to know is to shoot it, and get to know the barrel. Try off the wall stuff, keep you mind open and don't give up to early. Some barrels like to be dirty, some like to be clean, some like have the bullets jambed into the lands, and some like to be jumped, it has to do with different personalities. Some twist are fast, and some are slow, so try different bullets. Some of the best shooting barrels are ones that people have told me that it will not shoot, and some of the worse barrels I have gotten was barrels that people said that it shot like a house of fire, I think shooter experience has a lot to play in this.

All in all, you can look at averages, chances are great that a custom barrel will shoot better, and be easier to clean than a factory barrel. (Some times a factory barrel just shoots good) When it comes to custom barrels, the person doing the chambering work matters more than the maker of the barrel. Your chances of getting a good barrel are increased when you buy a premium made barrel, and have it chambered by a competed smith, but it is no guarantee. You can buy several barrels from the same maker, and have them chambered by the same smith using the same reamer, and they will all act different.

who chambers and cuts the rifling is far more important imo than who manufactured the blank.