Another thought on reducing pressures. I use Dacron filler which from several sources has been shown to give higher pressures then the foam insulation or backing. Worth investigating further.
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Another thought on reducing pressures. I use Dacron filler which from several sources has been shown to give higher pressures then the foam insulation or backing. Worth investigating further.
Sent you a PM, what is the main difference in the 50 B&M long and the thumper other than case its made from?
Its for all intents identical. I hadn't been aware of the 50 B&M Long until recently. It isn't one of the B&M commercial cartridges. They seem to have done it simply because it made sense.
Specs: 50 B&M Long
Bullet Diameter:
.500 in.
Max Overall Length:
2.950 in.
Rifling Twist:
1-in-18.0 in.
Rifling Lands:
6
Case Capacity (est):
93.6 gr. water
Primer Size:
.210 in.
NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight:
500 gr
Muzzle Velocity:
2,120 fps
Muzzle Energy:
4,992 ft-lbs
The data is very useful for 500/375 HPDT enthusiasts. I enjoy reading the tips and experiments posted on the B&M site. Lots of it is a work in progress.
I particularly enjoyed the raw primer and filler data posted there. Its all just so practical and what most of us are trying to do as well.
Should find a way to thank them. The info shared is truely a golden nugget for big bore fans. I would love to put one of their lever gun cartidges together.
As a comparison the 500/375 easily replicates "Nominal Performance". Essentially twins here :-)
Ruger basic brass = no fireforming to speak of. Slightly more case capacity. Not enough to brag about but...
No belt! (Is this really an advantage? Starting to see why being headspaced off a belt could be useful in push feeds.)
Specs: 500/375 HPDT
Bullet Diameter:
.500 in.
Max Overall Length:
3.13 In.
Rifling Twist:
1-in-20.0 in.
Case Capacity (est):
109.5 - 110 gr. water/trimmed case 2.62+-
112 +- gr water @2.65 full length
Primer Size:
.210 in.
BtSnipers ql screenshot has more detailed specs if this isn't enough.
I need to get some foam filler and shoot the 500XTP and 375XPB max loads again with the 215 primers to see if there is a noticeable difference.
It amazes me that the 2 bullets with a weight difference of 125 grains. Basically produce identical pressures.
Of course the 375 is going much faster, farther and flatter. On a 100yd range the 500 is making a huge entry hole and expansion is huge. I haven't recovered any XPB's yet for comparison.
Suppose a water jug tests the thing to do? Though I never really took the results people post online seriously. It does seem a fair evaluation. Thing is I'm not a fan of the 500 grainer because its so range limited. It works very well within its limitations though!
Still looking for that 1 bullet that does it all. CEB Safari ESP Raptor might be the only serious contender. I'm just not fond of the price. But realistically I only shoot about 10-20 of these in a session. So once a load was working well the cost per session wouldn't be so bad. The question is does it bring enough velocity to justify being $20+ more a box? Do the gumby tips really translate into longer range? If not the bc without it doesn't appeal to me at all.
Especially not if I can get the XPB up to 2450 with some IMR4198. Hitting that magical 5,000 ft/pnds of energy usually only achieved by the heavy weights.
On a side note a fawn in spots just ran past me sitting on my porch no more 20' away.
Still searching for a quality bullet. So here is another premium vendor to consider. Specifically the Beowulf line with .035 thick jackets. Would think they will hold together well at higher velocities. I totally buy into the soft bullets improving accuracy.
http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm
I wanted to revisit the 500gr FP-XTP with slow burning tac. A few friends have asked about shooting this and I wanted to give them the full DG rifle experience.
500gr bullets @2150 FPS.
How it looks statistically.
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...psrtiyccbm.png
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...pskusqgfoa.png
Now reality check. 7mm rm max load with 175gr bullet for comparison. Most people would rather not shoot this load on a regular basis and is considered about the limit for most to shoot comfortably.
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps52atvdej.png
Looks like Mr. BIG.
Really if left long the case capacity would be equal to the 458 Lott. Because the Hornady Ruger basic brass is a little soft and bullets a bit larger dia. Lott velocities won't quite be attainable with FP & HP bullets at least.
Once the brass has been fired a couple times it work hardens and handles max loads better. Eventually case seperation comes into play but pressures probably a bit high when you get there.
But with bullets of 500gr easily pushed 2150+ fps and lighter ones easily making 2350-2500 fps there is a clear niche filled here.
I haven't tried the 275-325gr bullets yet but 2600 wouldn't suprise me.
I doubt many who shoot the 458wm or 458 Lott push max velocity anyway except to win at the be a man game.
Kind of made the decision to stay with conventional bullets for this year. Am working on finding someone to do a small run of 385-410gr spitzer bullets with .050 jacket.
If nothing pans out I will have to spend next winter learning to cast n swage.
This round should never be bothered by the anti personnel classification as the BMG Bullet. But who knows!
Rossi 28ga/500 would have been an ideal platform. Too bad it never made it to market.
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...psavwqpoww.jpg
Retraction was stiff here so will have to run down to a lower node. Velocity will be less of course these were about 2184. Went down to 85gr velocity under 2100. Now I remember why I stayed away from this powder :-)
How to: Outside link to tech note @BearToothBullets.
Guide to reloading straight wall cartridges. Same basic reloading concepts apply here. Obviously.room for variation but well organized.
Beginners .45-70 Start To Finish :: By Mike Lengyel (Flashhole) on 2004-06-13
The tip from the guide above that helped me most:
Use sizing wax (I used chapstick) when crimping.
Except when crimping into the canelure I could never get enough of a crimp to hold my bullets. Crushed bulged cases were typical results of trying. Put a little wax on and lean into the press a bit more and viola perfect taper crimped bullets.
Uhg! Got notice on the 22nd Midway had 400gr Barnes Busters in-stock. Waited too long and out of stock already! I really wanted to test some In the 500/375. Maybe next year :-)
AND ground squirrel!Quote:
Originally Posted by scope eye
How did WC844/H335 do? I would think with 500gr it might do very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzfike
Been away from the shooting for a while, wife has some serious health problems and that has kept me from continuing the hunt. She's getting better and I hope soon to get back on it. JimQuote:
Originally Posted by sixonetonoffun
Jim, Good to hear she is on the mend. Prayers for you both.
Peter
Whats the latest update on load data here? I got some time to load and needing to buy some bullets anyways. Finally shot off the few 335gr speer bullets with 85gr H335. Accuracy was all over the place. Might need to check my scope.
Look at Hawk bullets if you are wanting accurate hunting bullets. Prices are decent there.
I have been considering trying to size down their 505 Gibbs round nose for a more rifle like bullet.
They carry a full line of .500 bullets. Beowulf .500 and .501 bullets.
For the accuracy is like any other cartridge work up to a node. Having an extended bushing for crimping would be helpful to get more consistent crimps.
I have a good load with Barnes 375gr XPB's with 78.5 gr RL-7 but haven't gotten the speed I desired from them. Definitely good enough for tin cans at 100yds. Same charge looks goodwith the 500's too but I haven't clocked those yet.
I think the H335 would go well with the 375gr xpb's or 500gr xtp's both build a lot of pressure for me.
Other powders to look at.
H322
IMR4198
H4198
AA2200
AA2015
AA2230
These powders should all give good results with 275-500 grain bullets. I have no desire to try anything heavier then 525grs so those are the powders I would try for low es, sd and best velocities.
I Haven't had time to shoot at all here for while but will share when I do.
Shot a few loads of the H335. 85grs and 335 grain speer bullets. Velocity was never consistent and the feel was different from shot to shot. With 85gr there is still room in the case. Likely to have erratic pressures this way? Need to try compressed loads of a different powder or fill the gap with something?
My experience with erratic loads has been the neck tension/crimp. I had to go with the 50 Beowolf sizing die to get the neck tension down to where it will hold the bullet properly. Too much crimp affects the case's ability to headspace on the case mouth properly. Its quite a dance to get everything just so with this beast. I'm running slightly oversize bullets and depending on neck tension rather than crimp to keep things even. (I leave a slight flare at the case mouth to better grab the end of the chamber.) .5015 to .502 has been working well for me. I just finished a batch of copper tubing jacketed swaged bullets that are weighing 458 grains. I use a gas check along with the copper tubing section to give me a 3/4 jacket bullet. I made a different nose punch for the swaging die to give me a little more aerodynamic bullet. Still haven't worked up a load for them yet, and they are very labor intensive to make. Jim
Faster powder helps a lot with lowering the es sd numbers. I've used starch packing peanuts to take up the air space not adding compression really. Dacron works too. But I feel it can add unwanted pressure when used that way. (See interweb myths on barrel rings from dacron)
My best accuracy and consistency has been with 400 & 500gr bullets. I think the fast 1:20 twist does better with that range. Lightest I tried were the 350's and they gave great velocities I just never got quite the same accuracy. The 375 barnes did show some promise but I gave up on them due to cost and disappointment in the velocities.
Have fun and keep us posted!
I find The best solution to fill the void are cotton balls.
Dean
In no way conclusive but interesting ptrace data.
http://m.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/...o-Fillers.html