Update on my 12 VLP

I had a lot of POI repeatability issues on the rifle and couldn't get the scope to zero without using up all the windage adjustment (which really degraded optical quality). After several attempts to fix the various obvious detail items I could find and still not getting it right, I took it to a regionally respected smith with experience working on LEO and competition rifles. They put the action in a jig and found the mount holes to be offline by .0018".

I thought about it for a bit and resolved to send it back to Savage.

I called Savage today for a checkup since it's been about 3 weeks and the CSR said they sent it back a couple days ago. They claim that the action is fine and the problem they found (whatever that may have been: the CSR didn't say) was in the barrel, so they re-barrelled it and sent it back.

It will arrive at the gunsmith's place around Wednesday. The gunsmith doesn't understand how they could arrive at their conclusion since he put the action in a jig, not the barrel, and found the holes to be off. I'm going to wait to see their official report and assume the CSR doesn't have all the facts in front of him.

I'm starting to get that "tired of this" feeling, but really hope this thing comes back good to go.

weird, maybe the holes were within their "tolerances", or maybe the barrel really was the culprit......keep the updates coming, and good luck.

Is that really 1 point 8 thousandths of an inch? There is more slop than that in the base screw holes

I'd just get a set of Burris sig zee rings and some offset inserts and never look back.

I have a VLP , with a similar situation. A 22-250 that I wanted to center the scope at mid range, & use a few barrel.
I discussed it here on the forum.

To make a long story short, when I put my FarrelI base on, put it in a lathe, from the front to the back of the action it's off .048, yea! .048 in 6 inches.
Sent the whole rifle back to Savage. They said barrel , & action are with in specs. Had sent it to Fred for a T&T job, & two bolts, & his trigger. bolts are, one a 223 head, the other a 22-250/6MM.
Fred works on the center of the action too. I am very pleased with the work Fred did . first class.

with the 223 barrel (Shilen) on the action, scope set at mid range on all adjustments, & a .031 shim under the rear base, with a +5/-5 on the front Burris ring , zero's in the rear, & it's still right two inches, & three inches high. I then use the scope adjustments to get to zero at 100 yds.

Then I put the 22-250 barrel (McGowan) on, & leaving the Burris rings alone, adjust the scope both height, & R/L approx. 3 more inches.


Then I put the Rem 6mm barrel ( McGowan) on. I have to put a +20-20 Burris insert in the rear of the rings , & then adjust the scope a few inches. this way, I use three barrels, one scope/stock/action. can't do it any other way, because the action is so "egg shaped, (.048 from front to back).

When I sent it back to Savage customer service, they were very nice about it, but they are only concerned about the "center", not the outside of the action, which includes where the base fits. I was concerned about it, got some good advice from BillPa here on the forum, & I’m on with life.

I have accepted the fact the action is off. I just use different inserts, & do some scope adjustments. Not what I really wanted , when I bought all three barrels, but I am getting use to it. in fact yesterday, I shot 96 rds from all three barrels, when I went shooting. use my "homemade" barrel vice on my Wal-Mart special table I use to shoot, & change barrels/bolts/& Burris inserts.

Do this every week, & I hope the threads on the barrels don't wear out :D

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Originally Posted by Smokey262

Is that really 1 point 8 thousandths of an inch? There is more slop than that in the base screw holes

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I had one too many zeroes: it was .018, nearly 2% of an inch, which, before the error is propagated by distance from the center point by the bases and rings, amounts to nearly a foot at 100 yards. The total error was substantially higher.

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Originally Posted by pdog06

I'd just get a set of Burris sig zee rings and some offset inserts and never look back.

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The scope has a 35mm tube and Burris does not make zee rings for that width tube.

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Originally Posted by chestsprings

I have accepted the fact the action is off. I just use different inserts, & do some scope adjustments.

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I will not be swapping barrels routinely but I cannot give up all of the windage adjustment on my scope because of how that degrades optical quality. If all they're saying is they figured out how to get a barrel on there to point the same direction as the holes, I guess it's a start although I can think of some other accuracy related problems that may create. If it shoots straight and doesn't crap up my experience with the scope, I'll hang on to it at least for awhile but much of my early enthusiasm for the brand is gone.

Turn that action into a hunting rifle that can use the Burris inserts and start with another action.

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Originally Posted by ctrout

Turn that action into a hunting rifle that can use the Burris inserts and start with another action.

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Left the workforce and went to lawschool: no money for that. I have an older model 70 to hunt with.

I agree that it would be nice to "start" with another action.

problem is, from what I hear/understand from a lot of Savage shooters, the majority of the actions are for lack of a better word, "egg shaped", so I might be in the same situation. I don't have that kind of money to "buy & try".

the reason I went to all my troubles, is as you say, "optical adjustments".

I tried to have the scope at mid range adjustments, & come close at 100 yds.

Now I know with three barrels, using 7 different bullet wts., that I use , I would not get them all close. I thought maybe I would get with in maybe 10 inches. not have to use a .031 shim under the rear base for all barrels, & then in addition, different Burris inserts, & then adjust/fine tune the scope.

didn't work out that way. once I put one of the barrels on it, get the scope adjusted, I am very happy with the way all the barrels shoot. Especially shooting the 75 gr. A-Maxes in the 223.

great!!!!!!!!

I also have A VLP with the same problem. I have DNZ one-piece base/rings and a Nikon Buckmasters scope. The holes in the receiver are so out of line, there are only 6 MOA of windage adjustment left with any of my barrels. I love the DNZ mount but really wish it was compatable with the Burris inserts. I wonder if the DZN mounts can be machined out to accept the Burris inserts.

to help my R/L adjustments, on my 223, I took the Farrell base, & where the Burris rings fit, I "filed" the one side of the base. took off approx. .005, just where the rear ring fits. that help get me some adjustments.

I didn't take any more off, as when I put the 22-250 barrel on, it shoots the opposite way. I could have taken more off, to center the scope, but then as I said, with the 22-250 barrel, I would be that much more to the opposite side.

there are trade offs in every thing, depends on how much time a person wants to spend "tinkering".

we all have to realise that anytime you remove a barrel, & reinstall it. it will never be EXACTUALLY where it was, so the scope will always have to be tweaked.

I tried this on all three barrels. my b-i-l & I put this in his milling machine. using an "edger", I would head space a barrel, take it off, then reinstall it-headspace it. did this at least 6 times with each barrel. never could get it back exactly where it was with any of the other headspacing. some were very close, but never exact. if you remove a barrel, then reinstall it, you will have to tweak the scope.


like you, my goal was to set the scope at mid-range adj.'s & if I had to use Burris inserts, get it as close to center as possible, so I would have lots of scope adj.

it can be done, just will need to shim, adjust base, & use inserts. I haven't found any other way.

Gene

Can't use inserts, there are no zee rings for a 35mm tube. Paying for a 35mm lapping kit will be more expensive than a T&T from Fred. I just got a form e-mail saying they'll catch up on emails on Tuesday. It's been about a month and it will be good to hear if there's a solution available through them that corrects the action, itself.

Texas,

I missed where you said 35mm. read right over it. Sorry

what brand of scope is it, that is 35mm? that would be a bummer trying to use Burris rings.

sure hope you can resolve your situation, as I know from experience, it gets frustrating trying to get the base/ring/scope to fit right.

It's a millet LRS. So far, I can't find a problem with the scope. The rings they send with it are very high and will be chucked eventually as I am currently using a chin weld (which works fine but it's not what I'm used to - just prefer a mount substantially closer to the bore).

If Fred can fix it, I'll send it his way this winter after cash regenerates a little from my recent move.

Lot of ways to skin this cat but aint a one of them cheap or the best.
#1 The best IMHO is to redrill the mount holes a size bigger and straight with the bore of the barrel.
#2 Is a little red-neck but cheap=Bend the action so the scope holes line up with the bore line...Actualy its the other way around?
#3 Swap out the scope to a 30mm or 1" so you can use Burris rings or mounts with rear windage adjustment. I know its what you have but as an owner of three 35mm scopes on a number of different actions they are a PITA you can live without sometimes.
#4 The cheapest/best solution and one you can do yourself is to shim the mounts.It may look a little funny but put them on with the nuts on opposite sides of the rail and shim them. Ya its going to torque the scope a tad and no doubt put ring marks on the scope but hey it works...Most of the time.
#5 Do what the factory probably did and find a barrel that is off the same way the scope base is.
#6 Send it off to Fred to have him fix it for you.

CJ, I appreciate your words boiling it down to the basics so well.

I'm really opposed to taking a different scope. I worked long and hard researching it and it is the only scope on the market that has all the features I want for under $500. It would be nice if Burris would simply make a set of 35mms zee rings.

I'm hoping Fred will actually get caught up on email and tell me if mine is a candidate for what he does.

I would re-drill and tap the holes to 8x40, there should be enough room to line them up like they should be and all will be right with the world!

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Originally Posted by BobT

I would re-drill and tap the holes to 8x40, there should be enough room to line them up like they should be and all will be right with the world!

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I have one smith saying, "Sure, no problem."

I have another one saying, "You'll end up with oval holes."

Does anybody know a smith in the Dallas or Oklahoma City area who has done this before?

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Originally Posted by TexasTransplant

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Originally Posted by BobT

I would re-drill and tap the holes to 8x40, there should be enough room to line them up like they should be and all will be right with the world!

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I have one smith saying, "Sure, no problem."

I have another one saying, "You'll end up with oval holes."

Does anybody know a smith in the Dallas or Oklahoma City area who has done this before?

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The oval holes guy might be right, I wasn't thinking in my original post so here is the scoop. The major diameter of a #6 screw is .138, the major diameter of a #8 is .164, since your holes are off .018 at first glance it looks like the #8 screws should work fine. The tap drill size for the #8 screw though is only .136 so it is already .002 under the major diameter of the #6 screw, I'm going by memory on the diameters here as I don't have my handbook in front of me but I think I'm at least close. In any case this is a job for a PROFESSIONAL gunsmith, not a rookie. If you decide to go this route I would be very careful about whom I chose to do the work. This is not the only fix but I think it would be my choice if I were stuck with the gun.

Good luck!
Bob

Texas,

if you find a person who does it, & it helps solve that problem, please let me know who you used, & how it worked.

I would be very interested.

then maybe, I might be able to not use the Burris inserts for my R/L adjustments.

I'm waiting to hear what the smith's report on what they got back from Savage looks like.

Depending on what Savage did, it is possible that drilling out larger holes in a straight line will actually result in greater alignment error.

Does anybody here know anything about stainless steel welding? Another thought would be to fill the holes and then re-drill standard sizes.