Newbie 111 .30-06 help

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09-28-2013, 12:37 AM
505Fire

Newbie 111 .30-06 help

Let me preface this with the fact that I know absolutely nothing about Savages and bolt guns in general. So I have been getting the itch for a bolt gun. I want to build a gun that I can push out to 1,000 yards. I plan on doing this with a .30-06 because from doing some research I have seen multiple people that use it there for fun and competition. I know it may not be an ideal choice but it will be easier because I already have an M1 Garand and a 760 game master in 30-06 and I have a ton of brass and already have dies for it. So on to the gun.

Today I found an older 111 in .30-06 for $250 that is a stagger feed with a side release magazine. So far my plan is to ditch the barrel and stock that are on there purchase a McGowen 26" pre fit barrel and install it myself. Then replace the stock that is on there with something with an adjustable comb or a chassis system. The problem I appear to run into if I don't go chassis is a lack of stocks for this style magazine. From speaking with CDI they have a bottom metal that fits the stagger feeds and then the stock I choose could be inletted for the CDI bottom metal and AI mags. This is where I think it would almost be better to go chassis because of the cost of the CDI setup plus the cost of a better stock Where the chassis systems are already set up for detachable mags and usually include one mag. Further plans include replacing the stock trigger not sure what with as I'm not sure what all is available and also adding a 20 Moa base and an adjustable something to 20 power scope possibly a vortex. Anything I am missing?

So is there any holes in my plan? Anyone have any other suggestions? What else do I need? I believe this gun should work or am I wrong? Like I said I'm new to this.
09-28-2013, 08:56 AM
jonbearman

You might want to add a different bolt handle like the one that stockade stocks sells or the sss bolt handle. You might consider the rifle basix sav-2 trigger as well. A lift kit from stockade but you will have to shorten the screw about an 1/8th of an inch to make up for the thickness of the lift kit.You could also convert to a blind magazine and you would be able to choose stocks that are available like the hs precisions or bobby hart stocks sold by stockys stocks and save a ton of money that way. I would also consider a bull barrel shooting at that distance.
09-28-2013, 10:23 AM
505Fire

Definitely going with a heavier profile 26" barrel. What is a lift kit what does it do and what screw would I need to shorten? Ah yes definitely would like a nicer bolt knob for it. Ok I will file away the rifle Basix trigger to look at. I think I am kind of stuck on having the removable magazine. It just seems awkward to me to not be able to remove the mag. Thank you for your suggestions!
09-28-2013, 10:42 AM
md80captain

I am doing the same thing for similar reasons. Minimizing calibers is a good idea logistically. I have already special ordered a barrel, somewhat different 1-10 twist 30" long with zero taper. I am planning on a choate savage long action sniper stock. Also an SWFA SS 10-42 scope (about $300) on a 20 moa base. I may or may not change out the trigger, depends on how much I can improve the existing one with my stone.
09-28-2013, 04:04 PM
moecarama

I rebuilt one of the 111 30-06 last year for a hunting rig.
26" CBI light varmit countour 1:10 twist and precision recoil lug (NSS)
replaced flimsy factory stock and dbm
Magazine box, follower, and B&C duramaxx stock (Midway USA)
Tactical bolt handle (SSS)
Karsten Cheekpiece
Burris XTR rings / Bases,Millett TRS-1 4-16X50 30MM (Midsouth Shooters Supply)
reworked trigger with .40 music wire breaks clean at 3lbs
the final build closely resmbles the savage longrange hunter without a muzzle brake; and really does not need one weighs in at 12.3lbs.oh gotta go take a picture of it!
09-28-2013, 04:43 PM
jbjh

You could get a Manners stock with the chassis built in. Not cheap, but really good.

When you order the tools to do the barrel swap, do it all at once. Shipping on the wrench is a beast just because of its weight.
09-29-2013, 10:48 AM
505Fire

Thanks for all the tips guys. Moecarama what kind of accuracy are you getting out of your build? Jbjh I think I'm out on the Manners set up. For that cost I can just put it in a full chassis. MD80captain what barrel did you go with?
09-29-2013, 10:57 AM
505Fire

So I picked up the gun yesterday for $250 it's in the original flimsy plastic stock I believe and someone painted it. I went ahead and clearanced the barrel since it was touching the stock in multiple areas and I cleaned up and adjusted the stock trigger which seemed to make it a lot better since it was pretty heavy originally.

This is is the gun.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94...ps788a307f.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94...pscf12c169.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y94...ps3a05be41.jpg
09-29-2013, 07:02 PM
moecarama

I'm getting right at a 3/4 - 1moa out of factory ammo federal 165gr.@ 100yds, it does well enough for the distances I hunt. I dont reload so things could be better. The barrell cleans up easily.
09-29-2013, 07:34 PM
md80captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by 505Fire

Thanks for all the tips guys. Moecarama what kind of accuracy are you getting out of your build? Jbjh I think I'm out on the Manners set up. For that cost I can just put it in a full chassis. MD80captain what barrel did you go with?

It's a Mcgowen Barrel through 4D products. They are saying up to four months before I get it.
09-30-2013, 09:23 AM
big honkin jeep

As requested Here"s another suggestion.
Buy good bases, rings and glass. There is nothing wrong with Leupold products. (don't skimp here but if you must Burris makes some good stuff)
Go shoot it and see what you've got. Keep the bolt gun brass separate... Then
Get a Lee deluxe die set, some 168gr Sierra Gameking bullets and a pound of IMR 4350. Work up several loads from start to maximum listed using the collet (neck sizing) die and shoot em.
When you find the one it really likes (probably at the top around 57gr) you'll probably be grinning from ear to ear and thinking why didn't I buy a Savage a long time ago. You'll also be ready to go embarrass many of the locals at the range with your $250 spray painted Savage which is another priceless feeling.
When it comes to accuracy a little time modifying your ammo with a handloading kit will give you the biggest gain for the cash spent of any modification you can make. There are quite a few sporter Savage barrels out there that can really make folks sit up and take notice. If it doesn't work out like this which I think it will, Then go spend money on aftermarket.
I'll be keeping an eye out for your Jam Master at the local pawn shop :)
09-30-2013, 10:34 AM
505Fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by moecarama

I'm getting right at a 3/4 - 1moa out of factory ammo federal 165gr.@ 100yds, it does well enough for the distances I hunt. I dont reload so things could be better. The barrell cleans up easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by md80captain

It's a Mcgowen Barrel through 4D products. They are saying up to four months before I get it.

Thanks for the info guys. Md80captain why such a long wait? Because of the specific length and contour?
09-30-2013, 11:03 AM
505Fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by big honkin jeep

As requested Here"s another suggestion.
Buy good bases, rings and glass. There is nothing wrong with Leupold products. (don't skimp here but if you must Burris makes some good stuff)
Go shoot it and see what you've got. Keep the bolt gun brass separate... Then
Get a Lee deluxe die set, some 168gr Sierra Gameking bullets and a pound of IMR 4350. Work up several loads from start to maximum listed using the collet (neck sizing) die and shoot em.
When you find the one it really likes (probably at the top around 57gr) you'll probably be grinning from ear to ear and thinking why didn't I buy a Savage a long time ago. You'll also be ready to go embarrass many of the locals at the range with your $250 spray painted Savage which is another priceless feeling.
When it comes to accuracy a little time modifying your ammo with a handloading kit will give you the biggest gain for the cash spent of any modification you can make. There are quite a few sporter Savage barrels out there that can really make folks sit up and take notice. If it doesn't work out like this which I think it will, Then go spend money on aftermarket.
I'll be keeping an eye out for your Jam Master at the local pawn shop :)

Currently I'm looking at the Vortex Viper PST going to try to find a used one or a good deal on one. Looking at the EGW 20 MOA base and up in the air still on the rings.

I need to to dig out my reloading stuff for 30-06 and see what dies I have and what powder and primers. Why in particular the Lee dies. Definitely going to be doing some load work with it. I have an ammo can full of Lake City that is going to be my standard for all of my group testing as I make changes and upgrades to the gun. Because of money I will be doing upgrades slowly and a little at a time. The optics are the first then barrel then trigger then the chassis. That order may change but probably in that order.
09-30-2013, 11:19 AM
handirifle

You definitely want to keep the ammo separate for the bolt gun. If the Garand is like the M1A's, the wrong load in it could bend the op rod pretty quickly. I doubt there's a whole lot of extra op rods for a Garand running around either.

Also, I know you said you have dies already, but there's a good (meaning most likely) chance the COAL will be different for the bolt gun because of it's preferred bullet and to keep readjusting the seating die will be a PITA.

Since you're spending some healthy cash, I'd look into some competition quality dies. They are only expensive once.

mocarama

Your hunting rifle weighs 12.3 lbs???? Should I assume this is not a "walk around" gun?
09-30-2013, 12:30 PM
big honkin jeep

I like the Lee Deluxe set because it comes with everything including the shell holder and the collet neck sizing die. No case lube necessary with the collet die and they produce some very good ammo using fire formed brass that fits my chamber exactly. IMR 4350 was listed by Nosler as the most accurate powder tested with165s and since I tried it many moons ago I have found it to be the cats pajamas. I team it up with 165 Sierra game king HPBTs CCI br2 primers load it to touch the lands and it shoots the lights out in several of my -06s.

If you have a trigger with a sear adjustment screw (3 screw) just tuning it up can make a huge world of difference and doesn't cost anything (except a piece of .043 music wire for the trigger return spring) very crisp and breaks at the first movement like a great trigger should.

A lot of guys complain about stock flex but I have never really had a problem with it. If you want a DIY project bedding the factory stock is fun, educational and can help by improving the mating surfaces to near perfect tolerances, Again doesn't cost hardly squat. ( a package of JB weld, some shoe polish, painters tape, a couple of big rubber bands and some bolts that fit the action with the heads cut off)
Maybe even stiffen the fore end if you find stock flex an issue.

Savage bolt guns have an excellent well earned reputation for their out of the box accuracy so that is where I'd start. A little load development, Tinkering and tuning as well as being a great hobby can also turn em into "What are you shooting those tiny groups with?" head turners at the range. Of course the "Cork Sniffers" will usually make a couple of excuses pack up their $3000 customs in the latest chambering and leave if you tell em that a spray painted Savage with some JB weld and hardware store wire in the trigger will shoot like that. :)
And yes this really happens... a lot
09-30-2013, 01:09 PM
md80captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by 505Fire

Thanks for the info guys. Md80captain why such a long wait? Because of the specific length and contour?

Right, because it's a special order I guess. I'm also thinking they must be pretty backed up.
09-30-2013, 01:12 PM
505Fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by handirifle

You definitely want to keep the ammo separate for the bolt gun. If the Garand is like the M1A's, the wrong load in it could bend the op rod pretty quickly. I doubt there's a whole lot of extra op rods for a Garand running around either.

Also, I know you said you have dies already, but there's a good (meaning most likely) chance the COAL will be different for the bolt gun because of it's preferred bullet and to keep readjusting the seating die will be a PITA.

Since you're spending some healthy cash, I'd look into some competition quality dies. They are only expensive once.

mocarama

Your hunting rifle weighs 12.3 lbs???? Should I assume this is not a "walk around" gun?

Yeah definitely will keep the ammo separate. Im aware of the limitations of the Garand. Good call on different dies for the two guns. I will check into another set. Currently I'm loading on a Hornady Lock N Load progressive but I'm not sure if it would be consistent enough for loading for precision.
09-30-2013, 01:43 PM
505Fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by big honkin jeep

I like the Lee Deluxe set because it comes with everything including the shell holder and the collet neck sizing die. No case lube necessary with the collet die and they produce some very good ammo using fire formed brass that fits my chamber exactly. IMR 4350 was listed by Nosler as the most accurate powder tested with165s and since I tried it many moons ago I have found it to be the cats pajamas. I team it up with 165 Sierra game king HPBTs CCI br2 primers load it to touch the lands and it shoots the lights out in several of my -06s.

If you have a trigger with a sear adjustment screw (3 screw) just tuning it up can make a huge world of difference and doesn't cost anything (except a piece of .043 music wire for the trigger return spring) very crisp and breaks at the first movement like a great trigger should.

A lot of guys complain about stock flex but I have never really had a problem with it. If you want a DIY project bedding the factory stock is fun, educational and can help by improving the mating surfaces to near perfect tolerances, Again doesn't cost hardly squat. ( a package of JB weld, some shoe polish, painters tape, a couple of big rubber bands and some bolts that fit the action with the heads cut off)
Maybe even stiffen the fore end if you find stock flex an issue.

Savage bolt guns have an excellent well earned reputation for their out of the box accuracy so that is where I'd start. A little load development, Tinkering and tuning as well as being a great hobby can also turn em into "What are you shooting those tiny groups with?" head turners at the range. Of course the "Cork Sniffers" will usually make a couple of excuses pack up their $3000 customs in the latest chambering and leave if you tell em that a spray painted Savage with some JB weld and hardware store wire in the trigger will shoot like that. :)
And yes this really happens... a lot

I was thinking about bedding the original stock to practice with and learn. I will definitely look into the Lee set. The adjustments for the trigger I could find were the safety adjustment, the over travel, and the adjustment for trigger weight.? I didn't see a seat adjustment.
09-30-2013, 02:37 PM
big honkin jeep

Double post
09-30-2013, 02:40 PM
big honkin jeep

Sounds like whats known as a "lawyer trigger"
That "trigger weight" screw is the trigger return spring adjustment. I want to caution you about adjusting it. If you leave the trigger spring "flat" it can be an accident waiting to happen. A much better way to do it is to replace the spring with a lighter wire at least .043 diameter and leave a nice arch in it. This will make some improvement but not like being able to adjust the sear along with the spring replacement.

They are getting harder to find since the accutrigger has come along, but a factory trigger with the adjustable sear would make a big difference. I did get one off of Gunbroker within the last couple of months and it was $30 to my door. Get this, they had it billed as a "TACTICAL" trigger LOL.
Lots of good aftermarket available as well.
09-30-2013, 03:35 PM
505Fire

Quote:

Originally Posted by big honkin jeep

Sounds like whats known as a "lawyer trigger"
That "trigger weight" screw is the trigger return spring adjustment. I want to caution you about adjusting it. If you leave the trigger spring "flat" it can be an accident waiting to happen. A much better way to do it is to replace the spring with a lighter wire at least .043 diameter and leave a nice arch in it. This will make some improvement but not like being able to adjust the sear along with the spring replacement.

They are getting harder to find since the accutrigger has come along, but a factory trigger with the adjustable sear would make a big difference. Lots of good aftermarket available as well.

Ah ok. Yeah I didn't mess with that I just changed the overtravel adjustment and the safety adjustment. I'm going to look for some wire to lighten it up. Plan to eventually replace it. Seems like the rifle Basix trigger is really well liked.