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Looking to test my 308 to see if I will keep it. Looking for a good accurate 308 factory round that is also low recoil.
I assume a 147 grain will have less recoil than a 180 grain, need to get one box to test the rifle vs. my shoulder.
But I also like to shoot a lot, so 60 rounds would not be out of line per each range session, if I keep it.
Any suggestions on ammo that is also in stock somewhere?
Thanks
Try 40.5 grains of R15 or 40.0 grains of 4064 with a 150 or 155 sierra boolit. You may have to tweak it but that is about 2500 fps with moderate recoil. You could always put a break on it and use scope eye loads.
Only looking for one (1) box of 20 rounds to see if I can shoot 20 rounds of 308 with my 10TR with a muzzle break. If I can shoot 20 and still sleep that night I will keep the 5R heavy barrel. If not it comes off and something smaller goes on.
We are getting 50 people together to order an ARPerformance 6.8 SPC II Savage barrel. So far it looks like it will be a 20 inch short action barrel with his custom chamber, and a threaded muzzle, with melonite coating for about $215. MY AR15 barrel similar to this will shoot 0.5 MOA to 200 yards, think I paid $170.
Just spent an hour looking on the web. Seems Remington Managed-Recoil Ammunition 308 Winchester 125 Grain Core-Lokt Pointed Soft Point (2,660 fps) has been around for several years. Per Chuck Hawks "Managed-Recoil cartridges are designed to reduce the actual recoil energy of these cartridges by about 50%.
Federal Power-Shok Low Recoil ammunition load drives a 170 grain Flat-SP bullet at a MV of 2000 fps. Also at 50% recoil reduction.
Now only problem is finding some!
Who is we?Quote:
Originally Posted by brasse
Yes and if you find low recoil amo the cost will probably be outragous like match amo.
I shot 25 -30 rounds of 308 with my Savage 11 trophey hunter which has the light sporter barrel and a week later I still ferl pain in my shoulder and I am in pretty good shape.
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Holy drill-press batman! I have a stag 5h upper for one of my AR's and it's quite a challenge to get under MOA at 100. I've long suspected that 16" just doesn't do it for 270.Quote:
Originally Posted by brasse
PS--308 ammo has gone the way of the dodo bird
PSS Or you can try an opposite approach--every now and then I go out with my 12 gauge and fire off a dozen 3" magnums--kinda like a ballistic fight club. After that most rifles seems pretty tame. : ) Just did that yesterday, as a matter fact, and made it most of the way through OK until nearly the last shot when my hand slipped off the foreend and I got scope-tatooed in the face. : )
Good luck finding.308 ammo anywhere. For whatever its worth to ya - I shoot the .308 & 30.06, both with muzzle brakes with no regard for recoil. I had shoulder surgery last year & probably couldn't shoot .30 cal without the brake.
Go ahead... Have a go at it. Live a little.
There's nothing like the back blast from a muzzle brake waking up the guy shooting next to you at the range. You may not make any friends but you'll have fun.
Since you don't reload, I hope I didn't break any rules with this.....Talk to chad at Dallas Reloads. I bet he is cheaper than anyones elses ammo and he makes a lot of custom ammo. He also advertizes that he makes reduced recoil loads. http://www.dallasreloads.com. I have been on a couple of other forums with him for several years and he is a great guy. Give him a shout and let me know what he says. For those of you who want to but a hundred rounds or more of match ammo in 308 he sells lots of that for around 1.00 a round if I remember correctly.
I can get some 147 grain 308, but none of the low recoil 125 grain. I can reload, just don't have anything for 308 now as I do not shoot it. I was looking for one box to shoot with a muzzle brake. If it isn't too bad then I will keep the rifle 308. If not the barrel comes off and another goes on.
Getting a JP Enterprises Bennie Cooley TactiCal Muzzle Brake 5/8"-24 Thread, only one rated 5 stars at Midway. Also the only one that Savage owners have recommended.
Getting Nosler Match Grade Ammunition 308 Winchester 155 Grain Custom Competition because it is in stock. Figure the 165 to 200 grain will be too much recoil for now. also this should give me an idea how accurate the savage 10TR is. Learned the hard way that cheap ammo is good for trigger time only. I enjoy the art of the bulls eye.
I have the last week of the month off, will be taking grandson to range every day
I don't think you'll need anything special as far as ammo if you are using a brake. I got a brake from Ross for my 260 for $40. Only so I could spot my impacts.
Stangfish,
Check out the 6.8 forum, getting a count for H, he can start with as low as 50 barrels. Looking at 20 inch heavy sporter barrel, with his special DMR chamber, threaded muzzle with melonite. Like I said his AR15 barrel in 6.8 SPC II shoots sub MOA at 200 yards. I had 3 Berger 140 grain VLDs touching each other. But it also shoots 110 Pro Hunter and 115 grain Hornady almost as well. He claims it is NOT A MATCH barrel, but everyone that has one wants another.
The 6.8 claim to fame is twice the 556 bullet weights, with low recoil. We love our AR 15s, but the lure of a good bolt gun in 6.8 SPC II is attractive.
There are brakes and then there are engineered brakes. As an engineer it is pretty simple, if the blast goes outwards at a 90 degree from the barrel, it will reduce muzzle lift. The Ross is like this.
But if the blast (and sound) is also directed backwards then with proper engineering and additional trials you can get a very large reduction in recoil. Savage makes both. The Bear Hunter and others that have the spiral holes and a closure device will reduce muzzle lift.
The 10 FPC-K and the 338 Lapua have very effective recoil reduction brakes. Weatherby make probably the best recoil reduction muzzle brake on the market. Tames those Weatherby magnums.
thermaler,
My first AR was a Stag 5H. Sold it to buy a Savage. Several things limit it's accuracy to just over 1 MOA with really good ammo and far worse with the cheap Remington.
It has the chromed lined barrel, not too accurate.
Non Free floating. Those who have put a free floating guard on can sometimes get under 1 MOA.
Also a good scope goes along way to being able to get sub MOA with an AR15/M4
But it sure was fun. Burned through many SSA value packs of ammo.
Also the bottom receiver fit and the trigger make a HUGE difference with ARs. My 223 Wylde Lilja barreled AR went from 1.2 to 0.5 inches with the simple change from a good trigger to a great Geiselle SSA-E trigger, overnight.
Below is my 6.8 ARP barrel, A1 stock, Tubbs butt plate and Limbsaver buttpad.
http://i1237.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7e0aade4.jpg
Thats what is on that hog hunter that I posted the pic of yesterday on your HH thread. They are very good. The Mucilek is not bad either.Quote:
The 10 FPC-K and the 338 Lapua have very effective recoil reduction brakes
Brasse,
You might as well go ahead and buy some dies and components for the .308. heck the dies aren't going to cost you much more than a box of reduced recoil ammo, and then you'll have what you need to go from mild to wild at your discretion. At 60 rounds per range session they'll pay off in no time and you'll have better ammo than you can buy. Brakes and a limbsaver slip on recoil pad can also reduce unpleasantness.
A pound of H4895 wont set you back much and the only real pain would be trying to find some 125gr .30 cal bullets due to current market conditions.
If you don't have any luck loading em up ( I think you will) the components and dies are always good trade fodder or should be easy enough to sell.
A reduced recoil .308 load is far preferable as a youth load to me than going with a different caliber. (unless it's a 25-06) Just something magic about the metplat of a .30 striking hide. Deer beg to be shot with a .30 caliber and ask for it by name.
Good luck and I'm sure you'll like the .308
Just looking at Midway, the 155 to 200 grain bullets outnumber the 135 and less ten to one. I have some 308 bullets, 85 grain and 90 grain for my 7.62x25 CZ52.
But there are at least a dozen 110 to 135 grain bullets that could be lightly loaded (starting load) and still have decent BCs. The ones with a polymer tip go above 0.30 BC, some of the cheaper 110 and 110 BCs are 0.172! Only issue is they are out of just about all 308 bullets.
I am used to high BCs with my 6.5 Creedmoor, 0.5 isn't even near the best.
I have some H322, H335, CFE223 all listed for the lighter 308 bullets.
It is still going to come down to Can I shoot a 308 without shoulder pain. The Savage 10TR supposedly weighs 11.9 pounds, add 2 for a scope and another 5 to 8 ounces for a muzzle brake.
So just about the best starter 308 out there. I know a featherweight 6 pound with scope 308 will not cut it with me.
Now that strikes my funny bone!!!!Quote:
Deer beg to be shot with a .30 caliber and ask for it by name.
I'm sure there is a lot more to reducing recoil than just shooting a lighter bullet. Typically as the bullet weight goes down the charge weight goes up. With the Hodgdon data using H4895 the pressure and recoil is dropped dramatically. Pressure drops to around 31,000cup from what I have seen and velocity should be around 2100FPS. that ought to soften it up a whole lot.
Several years ago after completely destroying a couple of white tails with my .300RUM and separating my ribs from my sternum while shooting it from a bench I contacted several bullet and powder manufacturers. The guys over at Ramshot powders were very helpful in providing reduced load data for that beast and a couple of other calibers I wanted reduced loads for. I didn't request reduced data for the .308 though. The guys over at Sierra bullets have always been helpful as well.
Contacting bullet and powder manufacturers via e mail or phone call may yield a compromise load that will fit your needs nicely and I would reccomend their services. After all who does more load development than those guys?
Good luck and if they give you something good be sure and share it here :)
I have a bunch of 30 call accelerators :-). Shoot great with a 68gr 224 bullet and some reloader 10x
Went to local store where I can get all the 6.5 bullets I want. But in 308 there was nothing but 180 grain form several companies.
But reloading is getting ahead of myself. If I keep the rifle in 308, I will probably limit myself to 40 rounds per trip to the range. Got others to shoot too. Shooting with grandson demands almost full time attention.
Midway has Atomic Tactical Low Recoil Ammunition 308 Winchester 125 Grain Sierra Soft Point Box of 100 loaded to 2500 fps. The Remington 125 grns loaded to 2660.
If I reload would probably get the 135 grn SMK HPBT, starting loads with the powder I have is over 2750-2800 fps. That would still be a very accurate round perhaps good to 300 yards for deer. I just have a love affair with SMKs. Cheep and high ballistic coeffecients.
I shot 40 rounds of Armscore 147 grain ($18 a box) and 12 rounds of the Nosler Match Grade Ammunition 308 Winchester 155 Grain Custom Competition. No pain when shooting and had a zero pain nights sleep.
I went way beyond my 20 round original limit. Too much fun.
The JP Enterprises Bennie Cooley TactiCal Muzzle Brake has to rate near the top for recoil reduction. My Savage 10TR weighs close to 10 pounds with brake and scope. Recoil is less than my 13 pound 6.5 Creedmoor. Guessing about the same recoil as my AR in 6.8 SPC.
Ammo supply is getting better for the 308. I can get locally the 147 PMCs for $16.95, the Armscore 147s for $18.
Have one box of Prvi Partizan Match Ammunition 308 Winchester 168 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail Box to try out recoil wise. Less than $19 and available
I really like the Nosler, but it is sold out again.
Eventually will reload the 135 GR (0.390 BC) grain Sierra Match King, 123 GR Lapua (0.290) and the Hornady that have high ballistic coefficients.
Not nearly as high a BC as the 168 and 175s, but recoil of a 135 will be less than a 180 GR
Also looking at the SMK 155 GR Palma ( 0.504) with Moly coating. I have shot a LOT of Black Hills moly coated rounds, still have several boxes in 223. These shoot great in my Lilja barreled AR.
Just ordered 10 boxes of Norma 150 GR, Cost with shipping was $22.27 which for target ammo is a great price.
If shooting the 308 causes pain, you will save yourself a bunch of trouble down the road if you simply screw on a $350 8 twist 243 barrel and shoot 95gr or 105gr Bergers. They are going to be lighter on the recoil than any of your viable options with the 308 and will have substantially better wind drift and will hit whatever is downrange with more energy than any lightweight 308 bullet. Then you can make yourself a fortune by selling your scarce 308 components before the supply situation is restored. Win Win.
Shooting is about getting what you want. I have a lot of other guns with less recoil, always wanted a bad ass 308. Now I know with a JP brake I can shoot it all day.
Eventually will shoot some of the better more accurate 308 ammo, just will limit the rounds downrange.
I like everything about the 10TR, barrel, brake, stock, butt pad.
a good muzzle brake goes a long way i have one on my tactical 308 with a hog hunter barrel i can shoot 168's without even putting it to my shoulder and it hardly jumps. shooting it prone 50 rnds is nothing in 1 sitting . the other 308 shoots the 155's but its 17 lbs
I see 308 all over the place. I could have 1000 rounds tomorrow if I want.
As to recoil, it could be the way you hold the rifle.
A pad and a rifle butt can help also.
dc
I have had a bad shoulder since June 1987. Lots of rehab, Doctors saying surgery, Dr. friends saying don't do it.
I am amazed at how much recoil the JP brake reduces to just over 6.8 levels. Not at 223 like some say, not expercting that much of a reduction.
I try to shoot 30 to 50 rounds from each rifle I bring to the range, usually bring 2 - 3 rifles. With my had guns I bring at least 3, with enough loaded magazines to shoot at least 100-150 rounds from each.
Up to June there was zero 308 at any gun store I visited in 5 different states. Starting to come back again.
I can even get 22LR although it's the non copper coated cheap stuff.
I shoot savage 12 trophey hunter in 308 and my shoulder hurt fir two weeks after first time shooting 20 -30 rounds. With a slip on limbsaver and shot 50 rounds with no pain.
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