Why is it Savage can make a Rifle That shoots One Hole But Can't Eject The Spent Cartridge?

I'm really frustrated with the 110 Predator that I recently purchased, it shoots so amazingly well, literally one hole but can't eject the spent cartridge afterwards? The only reason I don't shoot more groups like that is because I have to break my position to dump the spent cartridge out of the action and then rebuild a position while cussing under my breath. Not conducive to good marksmanship. If that's not bad enough and to add insult to injury, the way the rifle is designed the spent cartridge falls between the front of the magazine and the chamber and can't be lifted out or slid back to be removed.


In hindsight, I see all over the internet how to hack the problem or buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem so it's obviously a known issue and yet continues to plague this product. These are the kind of issues that can ruin a reputation and consumer confidence that will eventually destroy a company. It’s hard to imagine a product sold today where you spend over $700 and then have to buy an aftermarket kit to make it function as intended? The fact it's not being addressed is even more concerning. If and I assume this rifle was test fired they would have known it doesn't eject and yet someone chose to ship it anyway.


For this kind of issue to exist today with everyone fighting for their existence and to keep business open not to mention growing market share this situation is not only unimaginable but inexcusable. I’m not just upset because I have to leave the magazine out and hand feed bullets into the chamber and then eject them by letting them fall out the bottom of the rifle.


No, the reason I’m upset is that I’m a retired plant manager from the automotive component sector and I’ve had the gut wrenching and heartbreaking experience of shutting down factories and laying off thousands of really good hard working people. I’ve personally seen what an issue like this can do to a business. And if this isn’t on the top of someone’s list with an “All hands on deck” mentality this company may already be in deep doo-doo.

Flame off.


I really want them to succeed…..

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Originally Posted by Badfinger

I'm really frustrated with the 110 Predator that I recently purchased, it shoots so amazingly well, literally one hole but can't eject the spent cartridge afterwards? The only reason I don't shoot more groups like that is because I have to break my position to dump the spent cartridge out of the action and then rebuild a position while cussing under my breath. Not conducive to good marksmanship. If that's not bad enough and to add insult to injury, the way the rifle is designed the spent cartridge falls between the front of the magazine and the chamber and can't be lifted out or slid back to be removed.


In hindsight, I see all over the internet how to hack the problem or buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem so it's obviously a known issue and yet continues to plague this product. These are the kind of issues that can ruin a reputation and consumer confidence that will eventually destroy a company. It’s hard to imagine a product sold today where you spend over $700 and then have to buy an aftermarket kit to make it function as intended? The fact it's not being addressed is even more concerning. If and I assume this rifle was test fired they would have known it doesn't eject and yet someone chose to ship it anyway.


For this kind of issue to exist today with everyone fighting for their existence and to keep business open not to mention growing market share this situation is not only unimaginable but inexcusable. I’m not just upset because I have to leave the magazine out and hand feed bullets into the chamber and then eject them by letting them fall out the bottom of the rifle.


No, the reason I’m upset is that I’m a retired plant manager from the automotive component sector and I’ve had the gut wrenching and heartbreaking experience of shutting down factories and laying off thousands of really good hard working people. I’ve personally seen what an issue like this can do to a business. And if this isn’t on the top of someone’s list with an “All hands on deck” mentality this company may already be in deep doo-doo.

Flame off.


I really want them to succeed…..

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They probably have a recall for it? Or will fill it at no charge. I had a s&w 22-250 that had a factory recall, thry rebuild the whole rifle at no charge and without me asking.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Badfinger

I'm really frustrated with the 110 Predator that I recently purchased, it shoots so amazingly well, literally one hole but can't eject the spent cartridge afterwards? The only reason I don't shoot more groups like that is because I have to break my position to dump the spent cartridge out of the action and then rebuild a position while cussing under my breath. Not conducive to good marksmanship. If that's not bad enough and to add insult to injury, the way the rifle is designed the spent cartridge falls between the front of the magazine and the chamber and can't be lifted out or slid back to be removed.


In hindsight, I see all over the internet how to hack the problem or buy an aftermarket kit to fix the problem so it's obviously a known issue and yet continues to plague this product. These are the kind of issues that can ruin a reputation and consumer confidence that will eventually destroy a company. It’s hard to imagine a product sold today where you spend over $700 and then have to buy an aftermarket kit to make it function as intended? The fact it's not being addressed is even more concerning. If and I assume this rifle was test fired they would have known it doesn't eject and yet someone chose to ship it anyway.


For this kind of issue to exist today with everyone fighting for their existence and to keep business open not to mention growing market share this situation is not only unimaginable but inexcusable. I’m not just upset because I have to leave the magazine out and hand feed bullets into the chamber and then eject them by letting them fall out the bottom of the rifle.


No, the reason I’m upset is that I’m a retired plant manager from the automotive component sector and I’ve had the gut wrenching and heartbreaking experience of shutting down factories and laying off thousands of really good hard working people. I’ve personally seen what an issue like this can do to a business. And if this isn’t on the top of someone’s list with an “All hands on deck” mentality this company may already be in deep doo-doo.

Flame off.


I really want them to succeed…..

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Welcome to the wonderful world of Savage!

There have been issues with Savage rifles that some of us have been complaining about since long before this site even existed and yet they still exist today. Flexy synthetic stocks, crap magazines and weak extractors in the Mark I/II/93 rimfires, horrible bolt timing in the 110's and Axis rifles that could be fixed with a simple change to a line or two of code in the CNC program, etc.

The long standing problem lies with the management, and I got this "viewpoint" first hand and in person from one of the former V.P.'s of Sales and Marketing when I toured the factory back in 2005. Essentially the corporate mentality at the time was, "If they're selling good, why fix it?" and it doesn't seem like that mentality has changed at all in the years since.

In more recent years, another issue is that most of the engineering staff is fairly young and new to the company - the most senior member having been there maybe 10-12 years now. The current head of engineering came from the auto industry. They've inherited existing designs and have no knowledge of the history of said designs to know what's been tried or what's worked and hasn't worked over the last 60+ years. If you blueprint a current production action and compare everything to the prints, there's hardly anything on them that's within tolerance of the print.

One thing most people don't know is that Savage hasn't even put together a master parts list for dealers/gunsmiths since 2001. Changes have been made so frequently that it's become almost impossible for even them to keep up with. Often times they use the same part number for the slightly revised part, and worse yet they often do the same even when the change is major. How Effie hasn't lost her mind trying to deal with it all and keep track of things is beyond me.

Another tidbit we found out not long ago is that there's no communication between the warranty department and the engineering team, and no records of the problems are kept by the warranty department. How baffling is that??? One would think that you would want to keep tabs on warranty work to easily identify common problems so that they can be addressed and resolved in future production. Apparently not at Savage though.

I've been saying it for a few years now, but the best thing Savage could do for themselves going forward is to design an all new replacement for the 110. They could retain some of the basic principles (floating bolt head, barrel nut, etc.), but every component should be of a new design and not interchangeable with the existing 110 design. This would accomplish two things: 1) The design would be their own - of the current engineering team, and designed 100% around modern machining techniques and technology; and 2) It would once and for all end the nightmare of the various parts compatibility issues the 110 suffers from after 60+ years of design changes that make the aftermarket run away from it like it's Covid-19.

Doing so would be a big gable for them though, and if there's anything I've learned about Savage over the last 20-some years it's that they're not much for taking risks. This is also why over the last 10 years or so their piece of the pie has slowly been shrinking with serious shooters. Sure, they still sell just as many - if not more guns per year as they used to, but the bulk of what they're selling is the basic hunting rifles and package guns. The more specialized models typically have relatively low production volumes of maybe a few thousand units per year compared to hundreds of thousands of Axis' and trophy Hunters.

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Originally Posted by J.Baker

Welcome to the wonderful world of Savage!

There have been issues with Savage rifles that some of us have been complaining about since long before this site even existed and yet they still exist today. Flexy synthetic stocks, crap magazines and weak extractors in the Mark I/II/93 rimfires, horrible bolt timing in the 110's and Axis rifles that could be fixed with a simple change to a line or two of code in the CNC program, etc.

The long standing problem lies with the management, and I got this "viewpoint" first hand and in person from one of the former V.P.'s of Sales and Marketing when I toured the factory back in 2005. Essentially the corporate mentality at the time was, "If they're selling good, why fix it?" and it doesn't seem like that mentality has changed at all in the years since.

In more recent years, another issue is that most of the engineering staff is fairly young and new to the company - the most senior member having been there maybe 10-12 years now. The current head of engineering came from the auto industry. They've inherited existing designs and have no knowledge of the history of said designs to know what's been tried or what's worked and hasn't worked over the last 60+ years. If you blueprint a current production action and compare everything to the prints, there's hardly anything on them that's within tolerance of the print.

One thing most people don't know is that Savage hasn't even put together a master parts list for dealers/gunsmiths since 2001. Changes have been made so frequently that it's become almost impossible for even them to keep up with. Often times they use the same part number for the slightly revised part, and worse yet they often do the same even when the change is major. How Effie hasn't lost her mind trying to deal with it all and keep track of things is beyond me.

Another tidbit we found out not long ago is that there's no communication between the warranty department and the engineering team, and no records of the problems are kept by the warranty department. How baffling is that??? One would think that you would want to keep tabs on warranty work to easily identify common problems so that they can be addressed and resolved in future production. Apparently not at Savage though.

I've been saying it for a few years now, but the best thing Savage could do for themselves going forward is to design an all new replacement for the 110. They could retain some of the basic principles (floating bolt head, barrel nut, etc.), but every component should be of a new design and not interchangeable with the existing 110 design. This would accomplish two things: 1) The design would be their own - of the current engineering team, and designed 100% around modern machining techniques and technology; and 2) It would once and for all end the nightmare of the various parts compatibility issues the 110 suffers from after 60+ years of design changes that make the aftermarket run away from it like it's Covid-19.

Doing so would be a big gable for them though, and if there's anything I've learned about Savage over the last 20-some years it's that they're not much for taking risks. This is also why over the last 10 years or so their piece of the pie has slowly been shrinking with serious shooters. Sure, they still sell just as many - if not more guns per year as they used to, but the bulk of what they're selling is the basic hunting rifles and package guns. The more specialized models typically have relatively low production volumes of maybe a few thousand units per year compared to hundreds of thousands of Axis' and trophy Hunters.

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This is a great post.

Besides,Most of us that have shot and built rifles using Savage actions have several bags of over sized bearing's,extractor's,spring's,and ejector's setting in the tool box. We know the problem's,and have come up with ways to solve them.

Exactly! Keep in mind that when buying a Savage, you're getting the Volkswagen of rifles. If you want a Porsche, be willing to pay Porsche prices. That being said, there's no reason you can't pay a Volkswagen price, drop in a Porsche engine and trans, and get a real good performing car. Tune the action a bit, drop in a new barrel, trigger, stock, head for the range and give those who have more money than talent a good ol' school house whoopin'.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

Exactly! Keep in mind that when buying a Savage, you're getting the Volkswagen of rifles. If you want a Porsche, be willing to pay Porsche prices. That being said, there's no reason you can't pay a Volkswagen price, drop in a Porsche engine and trans, and get a real good performing car. Tune the action a bit, drop in a new barrel, trigger, stock, head for the range and give those who have more money than talent a good ol' school house whoopin'.

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LOL...I spent my young adult life as an Master Auto Tech. And besides firearms..my hobby was taking 4cyl engines and making astronomical amounts of horsepower with them. My daily driven “track” car was a ‘96 Eclipse GSX. Had a built engine, and breathed through a HUGE turbocharger. It made close to 600bhp and would make many a domestic muscle car owner cry. LOL!

Sorry for the tangent. Your VW comment just made me think about that. I knew quite a few VW owners that would do the same. So your comment is valid.

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Originally Posted by Txhillbilly

Besides,Most of us that have shot and built rifles using Savage actions have several bags of over sized bearing's,extractor's,spring's,and ejector's setting in the tool box. We know the problem's,and have come up with ways to solve them.

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He he...is that the short list?

I think they made some than can eject a spent case. Mine, for example. :noidea:

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

I think they made some than can eject a spent case. Mine, for example. :noidea:

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My latest 12 target action throws them several feet, and I wish it
did'nt !! I need to take a little spring out of it's step....

Mine eject fine. It's the one hole deal that has me puzzled.

My 10 PC in .223 doesn't like to eject Federal cases. Everything else is good to go.

I recently purchased the 110 Varmint in 223. Had the same issue not kicking the spent shell out, contacted savage, gave them my info and the serial number, they sent me an "ejector upgrade" kit, took 3 minutes to install and have not had the problem since.

I would encourage you to contact CS and get that upgrade, should be free, and get back so shooting those groups!

R

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Originally Posted by rmeyerwy

gave them my info and the serial number, they sent me an "ejector upgrade" kit,
R

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What exactly was in this "upgrade" kit?

Thanks for all the comments and feedback I really appreciate it. I've ordered an extractor and ejector replacement kit but I'm also going to contact Savage about the problem. I find it interesting that celltech got an upgrade kit one of the reasons I didn't go to the factory is because I didn't want the same bad parts. Go figure.......

Extraction/ejection system seems simple, but is a complex mechanism because a lot of things have to be "right" for operate correctly.
To name a few things;
1. Bolt head recess diameter
2. Chamfer size on bolt head recess
3. Location of ejector hole.
4. Retainer slot length & location in the ejector pin
5. Length & shape of ejector pin.
6. Ejector spring length & spring rate.
7. Extractor spring/ball location
8. Extractor spring length, diameter & spring rate
9. Extractor guide slot size and geometric location to bolt face
10. Extractor wear condition
11. Internal action surfaces that contact extracted brass.
12. Brass rim/groove/head dimensions
13. Brass length vs extraction angles
14. Path of extracted brass
15. Cleanliness of working parts.

Any one or combination of more than one can cause failures with extraction ejection. There are probably a multitude of more issues that affect and can cause failure also.

My .03

my kit was a new ball and spring that goes under the ejector. Very simple but before installation, easy 90% of the time it would not eject the fired case, afterwards, I honestly cant remember a failure to eject it, and I have probably shot 150-200 rounds thru it playing with different loads and setting to get the girl settled down. Appears not to like the 55 or 53 grain vmax but does like the 55gr sierra blitzking and Nosler 55 gr varmegeddon FBT.

Honestly, when shooting strictly off a bench with carefully prepared brass, having them on the ground and getting stepped on is the last thing I wanted, so I took the ejectors out of all my Savages. Now I pick the spent case off the bolt head, put it back in the loading tray and hand feed another.

That being said, my BVSS in 223 ejected fine when I threw the bolt back smartly. But bring it back slowly and it was guaranteed to drop the case on the magazine. So I would raise the bolt with my index finger, flick it back with my remaining fingers, then catch the case mid flight using the same hand and putting it back in the tray.

Well, I'm not that young guy anymore, getting too old and decrepit, so no more snatching the case out of the air, and no ejectors for me.

Good news, my “kit” came today and I changed everything out and it works! The only real difference I noticed was the ejector spring was much longer and a whole lot stronger than the OEM. It only throws them a short distance from the rifle but I’m good with it. This is now a great rifle.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

Honestly, when shooting strictly off a bench with carefully prepared brass, having them on the ground and getting stepped on is the last thing I wanted, so I took the ejectors out of all my Savages. Now I pick the spent case off the bolt head, put it back in the loading tray and hand feed another.

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Same here except for a few that might be used in the field.

I got the same problems too.

I have a model 12 F/V in 6.5 CM and ejects every time. Now my 110 that I re-barreled in 6mm CM, Will drop the case in the chamber about 80% of the time. Replaced the ejector, and extractor with the Kinney's extractor kit but still drops the cases when slowly extracting the bolt.

Same brass in both rifles (Starline).

I think my issue may be the magazine causing the ejection issues.

I only single feed my shots so I modified the mag and took out the spring and follower in the mag and put a piece of stiff foam in the mag so that I could drop a round in and feed into the chamber.

Upon further inspection I think maybe the lips on the mag are catching the case when I slowly slide the bolt back and knock it off the extractor.

Going to try to rework that area.

Anyone else got ideas???

The feed lips should be lower than the bolt head itself. It is almost impossible for them to touch the case during extraction. It is possible that they are hitting the bolt head itself and causing enough "disturbance" for it to drop the case.

A more common problem is the Creedmoor case diameter is often slightly larger than the original case of the donor action and it slightly "wedges" itself between the lug abutment & the bolt rail. Slowly pulling it through can dislodge the case. Watching the case during a slow extraction may reveal this. It is easier to watch with barrel removed. Marking the case with a Sharpie may reveal this interference also. You may be able to feel these "corners" with your finger. Often a machining burr is left causing the additional drag on the case.
The fix for that one is to remove the barrel & carefully machine, dremmel or file the offending corners. The path of the case withdrawal can also be altered somewhat when removing this material to avoid up & down directional changes as much as possible.

Just another thing to look at,
Randy

Spudgun, I doubt the magazine has anything to do with the failure to eject. But you try ejecting with the magazine removed, that should help to determine if it's part of the problem.

On another note, I'm loving this rifle more every day, walked out on the deck and shot this a little while ago between storms and as usual it never disappoints.
God I love this little rifle!

https://photos.smugmug.com/Hobbies/n...gtGfx710-S.jpg

Yeah, your right, just trying to look at everything.

It did start out as a .308 win. Rebarreled it for 6mm CM.

My 12 F/V, 6.5 CM, will work everytime.

The inside of the receiver is most likely causing it like you mentioned.