I see savage is offering this caliber. Anyone have one that can comment on it? Won’t even consider until I get bullets and brass. Seems like a great caliber from what I have read so far. Appreciate any comments.
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I see savage is offering this caliber. Anyone have one that can comment on it? Won’t even consider until I get bullets and brass. Seems like a great caliber from what I have read so far. Appreciate any comments.
A couple different guys have 6 ARC at our range, one is using it with an IR scope to hunt coyote at night. He likes is. Doesn't reload so he save the brass for me. I am thinking of rebarreling a Model 11 to it. Just to be different from all the 6 CM, 6 Dasher and 6BR out there.
Was never a fan of the 6.5 Grendel and I’m equally not a fan of the 6mm “GRENDEL”! There are better options of cartridges to drive 6mm, namely...almost any of them! BTW.... It has already existed for years as the 6mm Dasher! And the Dasher is far superior! But then, so are the 6x47, 6mm GT, 6mm Creedmoor, and IMO, the 243 Win.
It’s another “Redux”....very similar to the 300 Whisper, brought back as the 300 Blackout, by AAC. And it’s unfortunately, USUALLY the AR market that does these things. As much as I love the AR(although, I’ve been an PURIST since 2005! Not a bandagon’eer!), this market is full of more nonsense, & made up gimmicks for the ignorant, than just about any other.
The 6mm AR is part of the AR15 “Flavor of the month” cartridge club. If you are are doing a bolt gun, there are far better 6mm options.
I don't know...
We have an AR in the Grendel and liked it so much we got two Howa's in it.
So far an out standing deer round with a 123. Is there better deer calibers of course.
Depends on what your looking for.
Personally if it were me I would do the 6BR if you wanted a small 6mm. There is only about a grain or so difference in capacity and about 50fps difference in performance with the edge going to the BR. Also, the other nice things about the 6BR is the fact that there is multiple quality brass options out there and it fits a standard bolt face. The 6ARC is Hornady re-inventing the wheel...again and putting a cartridge that already existed in a shiny red package to sell to the shovel headed masses just like they did with the 6/6.5 Creedmoor, and 6.5PRC.
So very true.
Was looking more at a AR setup than a bolt action. But like to have both in same caliber if possible. Ballistics look good from what I have read. AR15 setup is what I am preferring at the moment. Tried the Grendel with issues so won’t even go back. But lack of components at this time makes it a dream at this time. As usual, Hornady introduced a caliber with no backbone to supply. Seems they signed a military contract with this caliber. Be awhile before components become available.
Has anyone seen an update on the DoD contracts for this cartridge and rifle? The only one I have seen is the original contract with Barrett which seemed to be a low volume order (less than 10,000) and does not even mention a service, only that it is DoD.
Personally I like it, I don't have one but been thinking about one. It's what the 6.5 Grendal should have been from the get-go. I think it neat and should be low decoiling. Savage should have offered the 110 Tactical with at least a 20" bbl. I've already got a couple 6mm Creeds that in very pleased with so it's a slim chance I'll switch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearcatrp
If you had problems with the Grendel, why do you want to try this?? The Parent case for the 6mmAR IS the 6.5 Grendel!! That’s wyy GT I call it a 6mm Grendel. I started with AR’s in the BEGINNING of the “boom”....2005, right after the Clinton AWB expired. I’ve NEVER purchased a complete AR. I’ve only assembled/built them. Now I machine receivers & produce my own when I want one. I’ve done more than most people. And I never went after the flavor of of the month calibers. The AR should be 223.... 7.62 is ok here & there, but 223 is best. Anything else should be a bolt gun, or if you want bigger, do an AR10.
Why not step back and use the .244/6mm Remington?
57mm case makes the cartridge fit well in most of the 110 actions, and rim size works well for .30-06/.308 bolts.
Fairly long neck makes reloading easier.
The 6 Arc is a low pressure cartridge 52,000 I believe . This is due to its Grendel parent case design . The ar bolt is milled out and had problems with higher pressures . The answer was to lower pressure . That being said you are building a bolt gun . I see no advantage to the ar platform limitations for a bolt gun . Also the mag length restricts the oal with longer projectiles eating up powder column . I own a 6.5 Grendel in a psa ar And i love it . Great cartridge in that platform . To Max an arc potential in a bolt is to go way over pressure . In that case why not use a cartridge designed for the platform like the 6br family if cartridges . Unless you just like being different that's up to you .
Hornady say to limit the AR loads to 52,000 but says its safe in bolt guns to 62,000 (see link to bolt loads below). The reason for the AR limit is how thin the perimeter of the bolt face gets with .440" case diameter cartridges.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdombuilder
https://www.hornady.com/assets/site/...m-arc-bolt.pdf
Also, a lot of 243/6mm carts burn a lot of power for not a lot more velocity. For example the 6mm Creedmoor uses 27% more powder to go 7% faster than the 6mm ARC.
Hornady sells some really nice factory loads for 6mm ARC at some great prices. In a bolt gun with handloads using CFE223 or LeverEvolution and 95-109gr modern high BC bullets its pretty easy to match the performace of most of the rounds mentioned. Again, except for 6mm CM which is a barrel burning powder hog.
Interesting discussion though it is not helping me to decide which to rebarrel to.
Latest discussion I have been participating in is the use of the 250 Savage as a 100 to 300yd target chambering. Then with the new bullet offerings I am giving it serious consideration. Yes just to be different!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrianm1972
HUH?? Hornady’s 108gr 6mmARC load is 2750....the 108gr 6mm CM loaf is 2960.... 210fps. That’s a HUGE increase. The Creedmoor can drive the heaviest 6mm bullets at MAX velocity. The ARC can NOT! It’s a JOKE of a cartridge. And I feel bad for the people who were fooled into it. It accomplishes NOTHING the 6BR or Dasher will, and is not even close to Creedmoor/243 velocity.
If you are looking to do an AR, stick with 223.Quote:
Originally Posted by bearcatrp
According to Hornady , 108 eldm in 6 arc with a BOLT GUN can get 2850 with 31.2 gr leverevolution and yes 62000 psi . That's a small powder charge for the velocity . In todays economy approx 10 grain of powder is alot . That's a free powder charge every 3 rounds . With that info and the accuracy to me that puts it in better competition than br and dashers . It's also a lot less br,ss work than some of those br wild cats
Odd...I was commenting this evening in a different thread about the use “anecdotal evidence”.
Hey, for those who think the 6mm GRENDEL is the best cartridge since sliced bread, KUDOS! But I’m gonna use what I already know. The 6.5 Grendel was a failure! It is unable to drive anything more than the 123gr pills with any efficiency. And it fails even with that! But some how, we are to believe that the SAME CASE is necked down to 6mm & it can now “miraculously” drive the HEAVIEST 6mm pills, at CLOSE TO speeds as the the larger cases.... and ALL while using MUCH less powder & less pressure to boot! So it’s learned to defy the laws of physics?? OK. Have fun with that. Interesting how most videos of reloaders are getting between 2500-<2750 with the 6mm Gren..., I mean. ARC.
The numbers you posted exactly support what I posted. I double checked the loading data and to push the same 108gr projectile the 6mm CM uses 25% more powder to get a 7% velocity increase. That is not very efficient. If velocity is always the most important metric to gauge the value of a cartridge may I interest you in my new wildcat the 6mm-50BMG?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
6mm PPC, 6BR and Dasher are almost identical performace wise as the 6ARC. The latter 3 are all specialist rounds, not a lot of production rifles are chambered in those rounds, factory ammo is hard to come by at the best of times and VERY expensive. The 6mm ARC came about from a DoD/SOCOM request so there is a military application and quite a few manufacturers have signed on with Hornady to support the round and ammo prices for really nice loads are very low so right now the future look pretty bright.
It's clear you don't like it and that's fine. 6mm ARC is just getting started, time will tell.
Anecdotal evidence is also a blow-hard telling the world they are stupid, because he assemblies his own Legos. And because he thinks he's assembled more Legos than you, if you don't listen to him, you're stupid and he'll keep replying....
Bearcatrp,
The ARC has been a fun little number. Is it ultra-mega-tactical-lifetime-warrantee? No, which is why the simpletons of the world hate it. Those of us who are actually shooters, and enjoy playing with things; have had a pretty good time with it. Deer rashes are a bit limited in the AR, simply due to bullet velocities for reliable operation.
Also don't worry about Grendel or Arc brass. They are all based off the 220 Russian, which is also what the 7.62*39 is hard off... Hint, hint.
Cheers
I'm not going to get in to the fight BUT.
We have a 6.5 Grendel in a Howa mini action the shoots GREAT with 8208 and 123 gr tsx bullets and will handle ANY deer you shoot at out to about 300 yards.
We also have a CZ 7.62X39 that also is a very good little deer round but a little lacking over 150 yard more like a 30/30.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrianm1972
That argument has no merit in shooting. The same is true between 308 & 300 Win Mag, or 7mm-08 & 7mm Rem mag. If you think an 200rps increase is irrelevant, than we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
That's exactly what I was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdombuilder
“If velocity is always the most important metric to gauge the value of a cartridge may I interest you in my new wildcat the 6mm-50BMG?”
HAHAHA.... Funny, I did like that. But obviously we know it’s not a viable concept. I believe it’s actually been tried... Someone called it a 50BMG-243 or something. I’ve only read about it..never seen it. The problem is, and the reason the powder/velocity % correlation you used is moot, is that a given projectile needs exponentially more pressure to reach higher velocities. Simply using larger & larger cases becomes futile above a certain threshold. I’m not interested in MAX velocity. I’m interested in the CORRECT velocity given diameter, weight & length of the projectile. There is a reason people don’t load the ultra heavy 220gr 30cal pills in 308. And it’s NOT oal, as we’ve been playing with that forever! The given powder column is insufficient to reach stabilizing velocity.
Although, more velocity was not my argument. I was simply pointing out the powder/velocity percentage argument as fallible.
The fact is the arc was another attempt at stimulating the “more-better-er” mindset in much the AR15 enthusiast crowd. The 6.5 Grendel was a failure(not completely like the 300Whisper, but pretty bad). However, the 300aac was a hit.. go figure. The 6mm projectile is UBER popular, and they are trying to tap into that.
And once again I’ll say it... if it tickles your fancy, have at it. But I’ll continue listing actual credible evidence we’ve seen. The Grendel cartridge was NO accuracy wonder as it was touted. It never achieved any shooting greatness in the sport. And remember, it’s ok if we disagree. Certainly no need to hurl attacks as *some feel the need.
Absolutely man. I was just being goofy about the 6mm-50BMG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Sounds like a 6 BR or a derivative.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdombuilder
.
Oh yeah I got you right way. You can actually Google some pics and they look ridiculous. The one I was thinking of was actually a 22 in a necked down 378 Weatherby Magnum case. Itwssdone in the 60’s by P.O. Ackley and hit 4600fps with a 50gr bullet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrianm1972
Called the 22 Eagersplitten Loudenboomer Pretty ridiculous!
https://blade-city.com/blogs/gun-kni...n-loudenboomer
How does one have the time, or the interest, to keep up with all this irrevellant bull sh—t ?
Yobuck, I’m completely disabled and in severe pain 24 hours a day. Severe nerve pain with no cure & no end in sight, from a Brachial Plexus Injury. I don’t drive any longer, get violently ill when I’m in a vehicle, don’t walk so good, and being on my feet for more than a couple minutes triggers massive pain fits. I also suffered brain damage which causes me to severely overheat. Pretty much need to be in AC & have a fan on me at all times. I can usually muster an hour or two some days to mess with gun projects, or making my custom knives. Other than that, I’m pretty much relegated to my living room sofa. (Some days pain has me stuck in bed)Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
So I read and research A LOT! That’s the “HOW”.... as for interest. Well, you’d be surprised. Boredom is a horrible thing.
Im sorry you think it’s bull dung.
The Grendel is a great cartridge In the platform it's designed for , an AR. It didnt catch on because the military never picked it up . Ballistically it's Superior to every other ar caliber . I built one a psa with an 18 inch barrel . It shoots under 5/8 of an inch with hand loads . That's amazing In a budget ar . Its so Good it needed a redo in the 6 arc . Just my opinion and experiences . Sorry to hear about your health Dave . I get it, had a stroke 2 years ago but getting better . Hang
in there and pray brother .
A buddy I shoot with at the Anderson Creek UBR matches is in the middle of a 250 Savage short course build.Quote:
Originally Posted by KMW1954
Great cartridge back when, and still more then viable today.....Never myself fancied anything in 6mm, Sneeze,
and a new variation pops up. Their all good at the proper place and the right time though.
Well Dave im truly sorry about your condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Based upon what youve said about it im somewhat surprised your able to accomplish what you do.
I suppose there could be others here who might also have health issues which prevents them from from doing all they might like.
As for your being sorry about what i might think, im quite willing to take on that responsibility on my own.
I had no opinion on what the OP asked about so i didnt offer any.
Fact is i wasent even aware of that cartridge untill he posted his question.
He mentioned his reason for having an interest in it, and it seems there are quite a few who feel it is a good choice.
Except you, and i guess it might be fair to ask who are you?
And why should your opinion matter more than others, including mine.
It might be a good idea for you to spend some of that time you have thinking about that.
And while im at it id like to thank Darkerr about his Lego building comment.
I wish i had thought that one up. lol
If I were to choose now I would still pick a 6BR. For shooting at long range I am not going to worry about how many boxes of ammo are on the shelf at the store. Mine will be all hand made to a much higher standard than the mfg stuff (except maybe Lapua :) ).
I don't see the long range target crowd going 'backward' to the 6ARC. They have already gone past the 6BR with the Dasher. I still don't see why folks have chosen the Dasher over the 6x47, 6XC or 6CM. In that small crowd all it takes is one or two people to win consistently and others will follow what they are using. When you go through a barrel or two a season, changing cartridges is not that big a deal. And many of 'them' seem to enjoy tinkering with wildcats.
Will the 6ARC become popular? Maybe it will. As a true AR cartridge and Hornady's pushing I suspect it has a good chance. I do not believe the military will be as accepting, but, they always seem to do things differently. We have seen the 6.8 rumors come and go, now the 6 will bounce around for a while. Without a big war to push it I suspect the Army will not change calibers any time soon.
A hurdle to the 6ARC is the bolt face issue. Many AR users would be more than willing to swap uppers with the same bolt assy. The 300BO is a good example. When you have to change magazines and bolt, then you have another 'hurdle' for wide spread acceptance.
OTOH, the deer hunters out there have been looking for a good round to use in the AR. The BO was ok but not great for many folks. Maybe this 6mm will tip the scales.
Nevermind...I take that back. My initial thoughts were correct.
And another thread turns into soap opera drama.