Savage110 fp 223

Hello I have purchased a savage 110fp in 223. This rifle was previously owned by a LEO that was supposed to be a very good shot. He passed several years ago I bought it from the person that bought it from his wife. It has a F prefix and is a later model. As far as I know it's not been worked on . It has a warne 20moa steel rail on it . I'm not sure of the twist rate there is nothing on the rifle. It still has the factory stock on it not really a fan of it but if it shoots as good as my friend says I can probably get used to it. What would be a good bullet to start working up loads with. I have 55gr fmjbt 40gr fbhp 50gr wsp and 88gr eld match for powders I have varget IMR4895 IMR4064 CFE223 . Thanks

If it is the FP/FP-SR in 223, then it should have a 1-9 twist. 55gr is probably the minimum bullet weight you should ideally Reloder with it. The 1-9 twist is supposed to shine with 62-70gr bullet weights, and probably a little heavier doesn’t hurt; say 75 Hornady BTHP or a 77 SMK.

Depending on age of the rifle, it may be in an Accustock; either way HS-Precision does offer aftermarket stocks for the 10/12 series with top bolt release. Available on Optics Planet.

Good luck!

Isaac


God, Gold, & Glory... Just not in that order

It’s a 1:9 twist. Little slow for best results with the 88’s, but will still shoot them ok. Everything else will work fine. No way to say for certain, but I’d wager you’ll likely find best results in the 75/77 grain territory. All the powders will work. CFE223 is a top choice. I like it almost as much as BLC-2. They are almost identical in burn rate..only the slower side. While 4895 & 4064 are a little faster. (Better for the lighter pills). They are close burn rate to the AA2495 I just picked up.

Experiment with them all. Certainly enough to keep you busy for awhile. I’m a huge fan of 223/556...although not bolt guns. The AR15 is my favorite firearm. Never owned anything except my own “assembled” ARs, and actually been building them with 80% Receivers for several years now. Sorry for the tangent...

Anyway, I am quite fond of 223, like I said. Looking forward to seeing your results.

EDIT: LOL! Isaac posted right before me. But you see our posts are quite similar. Good stuff!:thumb:

I have been playing with a Model 10 in 223 with a 22" barrel with 1:9 twist. The little bit I played with 55gr bullets was a bit disappointing but maybe I just didn't get them going fast enough. I have been using 62gr Hornady FMJBT and RMR 69gr HPBT. Have gone thru a lb of Varget and didn't find a nice load until I was near max with either of the bullets. Have used BL-C2 and need to try more loads. Basically my loads have all been revolving around Ramshot TAC and Benchmark with the edge starting to lean towards Benchmark.

I did try some 75gr ELD and couldn't get them to stabilize.

I have had my best results with 53 gr SMK's over h322. I would concentrate on the CFE223. Also the 69 gr. MK

This is what I love about 223. The vast differences in loading habit. Few calibers show this versatility with powders. KMW likes Benchmark... Chood likes H322. And I’m a fan of BLC-2/CFE223. Look at those powders on the burn rate chart. The difference is eye opening.

Varget or IMR4166. 69 or 77gn SMK (TMK's are supposed to be a little better). Just a little below max in the Sierra book. 23.5gn Varget for the 77SMK is my load (Rem or CCI BR primers), 2850fps, 22" barrel, solid 1/2MOA even with me shooting :)

The .223 is very forgiving if all you need is MOA. Even the budget Hornady 55gn FMJBT (used to be $11/100) will do 1MOA. If you want better it takes some searching and tweaking loads. Powders the same. I settled on the heavier SMK's because I like to shoot at longer ranges, 500 and 600yd. Varget and 4166 because of temperature stability.

Nosler 69/77gn match and Hornady 75ELD match were pretty good as well, very close to the SMK's. The Hornady 68 HPBT match bullets were as bad as the cheap 55gn bullets.

PS if you try the 88gn bullets let us know how they do. According to Sierra the 77gn is at the upper end for stability with 1-9 twist.

charlie b I wasn't able to get the 75gr ELD to group at all in my Model 10 so maybe you need to let me in on the secret!

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Originally Posted by KMW1954

charlie b I wasn't able to get the 75gr ELD to group at all in my Model 10 so maybe you need to let me in on the secret!

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It’s because it’s not a 77gn Sierra match king

It needs to be moving 2750fps plus.


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I like peanut butter and jelly’s.

But weird bread and almond butter isn’t cutting it.

US special folks people use the match king for a reason.


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I used the same load for the 77SMK with the 75ELD-M. Did not have a chronograph back then so not sure of velocity. Since the 77gn comes out at 2850 then I suspect the Hornady would be close or slightly more than that.

The link on this site has the date of manufacture between 11/95 and 11/01 don't know if it has the accustock. Will try the 55gr first have a load for my ar. Shooting golf balls at 100 yards is relaxing. Will need to get a scope and bipod . Took the scope off the ar it sits to high got about a quarter inch of clearance between it and the bolt handle. Will try an find some 62 to 70gr to try .

Yeah, truth is there are Sierra Match Kings.....and then everything else! Sierra kinda broke the mold.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Yeah, truth is there are Sierra Match Kings.....and then everything else! Sierra kinda broke the mold.

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Seems the guys shooting 300yd Bench all lean towards a Yellow Box with a B. and hardly touch the Green Box. Though for me I'm shooting a lot of 69gr RMR HPBT.

https://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

I have yet to try the RMR. Seems like they will be a good alternative to the SMK's.

Yes, Berger and Lapua are good. I have a hard enough time shelling out the money for SMK's. :)

Right ATM I have 69gr RMR HPBT, 69gr Barnes Match Burners, 69gr Sierra Matchkings, 60gr Hornady VMAX, 62gr Hornady FMJBT on the bench with 68gr Hornady Match, 62gr Hornady HPBT and another 100 Sierra Matchkings that should be here Monday. Then there will be some serious testing going on!

FWIW, CFJunkie has a good thread on his .223 work. He might have tested some of those already for you to compare notes. I don't shoot nearly as well as he does.

FWIW & Charlie,

I just tested some 69 RMR bullets for a buddy who bought 2,000 of them.
I was impressed by how well they shoot.
These were tested in my 12 FV .223 that also has several threads on this forum and on the Ammunition and Reloading forum.
This might help with choosing loads. Remember the 12 FV has a 26 inch barrel, so these loads are tuned for the longer exit time.
For a 24 inch barrel, the exit time for a Savage barrel (non-Stainless) is 1.256 msec. instead of 1.361.
For a 22 inch barrel, the exit time for a Savage barrel (non-Stainless) is 1.151 msec.

	5-Round groups 69 gr RMR bullets
	Load #1		N140 21.1 gr 2.300 1.747 2649 fps 36236 psi 1.361 exit time 80/82 deg
	0.302		.323 group was with the cold barrel - also not having shot this rifle in a while
	0.287
	0.206
	0.323
Average	0.280
Median	0.295
Std Deviation	0.051
	Load #2		N140 21.1 gr 2.303 1.745 2649 fps 36238 psi 1.361 exit time 82/84 deg
	0.263		Barrel heating probably messed up the last group - over 128 degs.
	0.285
	0.295
	0.368
Average	0.303
Median	0.290
Std Deviation	0.046
	Load #3		N140 21.1 gr 2.303 1.744 2649 fps 36266 psi 1.361 exit time 84/88 deg
	0.245		Let the barrel cool after the third group.
	0.213
	0.312
	0.251
Average	0.255
Median	0.248
Std Deviation	0.041
	All 3 loads
Average	0.279
Median	0.286
Std Deviation	0.046

The standard deviation indicates that the groups were consistent.
I shot three different loads but the major difference was trim length and temperature.
I adjusted the seating depth to get the exit time to the barrel’s exit time.

As far as I can tell, the results were consistent.

My results with the 69 gr SMKs for all 32 groups with N140 at a variety of seating depths and exit times was 0.289.

A more comparative result with N140 using the SMK #1380 bullets at 1.361 exit time for 23 groups:
The average was 0.255. The best load was 0.248
The median was 0.244. The best load was 0.235
The Standard Deviation was 0.039. The SD for the best load was 0.031.

That is encouraging. I may have to try those at longer ranges too and see how they do.

Finally got to the range .Another question is the bolt handle supposed to move? How do I post pictures?

Third party Host them through IMGBB. Can download from your device, then click the picture. It will load on another page, then click the up/down arrows. Copy the “BB” code, and paste here in your thread.
https://imgbb.com/

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Originally Posted by Hnusz

Finally got to the range .Another question is the bolt handle supposed to move? How do I post pictures?

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If you are talking about the bolt handle jumping or moving when you pull the trigger, "Bolt Bounce"....It is probably being caused by the motion of the firing pin. As the trigger is pulled it releases the cocking piece pin. This pin is captured in a window on the side of the bolt body. This window is the cocking ramp and the area the cocking piece pin free falls(with the firing pin) to ignite the primer. If the bolt body is not timed perfectly in its rotation it may impact the ramp or the radius on its way to striking the primer. The twist or rotation of the firing pin spring can also cause this. That type of spring stores rotational energy. Dual counter wound springs are used to combat this like in the newer bolts.

You can experiment with your rifle to determine if it is one or the other. When dry firing your rifle close your bolt all of the way to the bottom of rotation. Pull trigger and note the "jump" or "movement". Do it again only this time, lift the bolt handle a minute amount and note the jump when you pull the trigger. Then again, lift more, then fire. Eventually you will see a minimum bounce, when you have found the sweet spot. I could be wrong but Try it and see.

If you have reduced your firing pin spring preload this condition(bolt bounce) could effect primer impact weight which in turn could cause accuracy or primer FTF situations. These are worst case scenarios but it proves that sometimes us Savagesmiths can be our own worst enemy. Don't ask me how I know this.

What do We do when We discover the “sweet spot” ?

I’m sure We don’t fire the rifle with the bolt partially open.

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Originally Posted by GrenGuy

What do We do when We discover the “sweet spot” ?

I’m sure We don’t fire the rifle with the bolt partially open.

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If you find the sweet spot rub until it gets you were you want to go.

If you mean the location I referred to that would indicate that the longest portion of the cocking ramp window is aligned perfectly? It depends on if it is causing trouble in my opinion. I don't suspect you of this but a lot of people read how this guy or that guy reduced his bolt lift. Some of that can creat ...or has the potential to cause other issues.

I am not sure what partially open is on a bolt action rifle but I would investigate the machine work on the bolt if you felt like you lugs were not engaged sufficiently.

Savage rifles have been known to have tolerances that may effect the function of their rifles. Not all of them but some of them. combine that with ignorant people like me fiddling with things we didn't understand at the time....They may also have at one time relied upon worn tooling or fixtures that in combination the machine work on the bolt, the actions bolt stop relief or maybe even the indexing when machining the cocking ramp window, bolt head retaining pin or maybe the location of the bolt handle anti rotation lugs. Have not taken the time to set up any inspection tools to verify any of this. I have however developed a hypothesis developed by rotating the handle to different positions and finding a spot where the Bolt Bounce was minimized.

When I was customizing bolt handles I TIG'ed a bump on the bottom of a few handles where it meets the action on bolt close, then filed them to get the right location where there was less bounce. I don't mess with them anymore and when I rebuild one of the older bolts to the specs I prefer I don't have a problem with poor ignition so I could care less.

Many people may never experience this and some will not recognize or care if it does happen. I just offered my opinion on the OP's question. I am hoping you have something to add so this topic goes to sleep.

Well, the subject came up, the question was asked by the OP, we’re not hijacking the thread, so I don’t see any urgency to put it to sleep. I have done a lot to reduce bolt lift and smooth the action function, but I don’t think I have created any other problems. There is bolt movement (jump) when a Savage action is fired. I guess “timing the action” can minimize this, but I seem to remember this is a proprietary-trade secret, performed by very few talented individuals. Compared to a high end custom action, the Savage can be considered crude, or course. In spite of this, and the huge difference in cost, I have found Savages to be very competitive, accuracy wise. A good reason most of us are on this site. I guess I’m thinking, “a little bolt jump ain’t no big deal” ?

I’m always looking for ways to improve My Savage actions, so this has My attention.

I’m just not getting it :confused:

Maybe I need pictures :rolleyes:...Thanks GG

Not bouncing just loose . I tightened it up and it dont move anymore. Was wondering if it being loose would cause the primers to back out . After being fired the primer sits proud. Does not do that in my ar. Same batch of ammo . Once fired 223 s&b srp 24grs varget rmr 55gr fmjbt. Still cant get pictures to post haven't used a hosting site before. Thanks

If Your Bolt Assembly Screw was loose, it’s good You got that tightened up.

Proud primers can can come from excessive Head Space, or thin primers bleeding back into the firing pin hole. I have had this situation bad enough with CCI 400 primers that a spent case would not go into the shell holder. My bolts are now Bushed with the firing pin turned to match. No more off center strikes, no more primer bleed, no more Fail to Fire with Small Rifle Primers.

Its not primer bleed the whole primer is proud. Tried to upgrade to paid so I could post pictures but I don't do PayPal

Your description is adequate without pictures. If Your Bolt Assembly Screw (BAS) was loose, I guess it could cause Your problem, don’t know, I’ve never seen it before. But it’s almost positive, for what ever reason, You have too much Head Space.

As far as the Bolt Bounce issue is concerned, I wonder if it occurs “after” the firing pin contacts the primer, or in the case of an empty chamber, the firing pin hits its stop. This could explain why it doesn’t detract from Savage accuracy?

Or maybe it “only” occurs when dry firing.

I just know I’m not paying attention to it when I’m shooting a relay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GrenGuy

As far as the Bolt Bounce issue is concerned, I wonder if it occurs “after” the firing pin contacts the primer, or in the case of an empty chamber, the firing pin hits its stop. This could explain why it doesn’t detract from Savage accuracy?

Or maybe it “only” occurs when dry firing.

I just know I’m not paying attention to it when I’m shooting a relay.

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Also when I spoke about "Bounce" I neglected to mention any upwards movement of bolt body. I described rotational movement causes.

I have only noticed it when dry firing also...for reason you mentioned there is a difference in the way energy is applied to the bolt assembly. That could cause the bolt to move up and down in the raceway. Im not sure I buy into that causing the rotional/bolt handle movement. Again that is my opinion. There is only so much that can cause it and I think between the two of us we have covered it. I don't know what to think about a loose BAS.

I could be wrong, but it seems slight bolt bounce with Savage is not a big deal because of the floating bolt head. It’s no secret that the factory bolt body has quite a bit of play in the Action. I don’t know.... just how I’m seeing it through it’s function.

To the OP: look at my answer in post #21. It’s very easy to Third party host. It’s actually beneficial to the Admin., (Jim Baker) as it doesn’t use their Server’s memory.

Just the bolt handle was moving you could move it up and down and front to back. Tightened up the bolt screw and it dont move. Was just wondering if that would allow the bolt to move back upon firing. Picked up a case gauge yesterday. Brass is sized to spec . Don't know if I want to get a set of go no go gauges and try to fix it myself or take it to a gunsmith.

Just get a "Go" gauge. No reason for a "No Go". Piece of take works just fine. Or I can even make you up a headspacing shim. .002", .003"...whatever headspace you wanted. I use a .0025" on mine.

Take it to a Gunsmith.

Is this factory ammo the primers are doing this with? And, is this happening with every shot or did just a few exhibit this condition? If this is the norm now with factory ammo(not your or another's reloads) & you are not confident in isolating & correcting the cause, the smart option is to take it to a gunsmith.

Not factory ammo my reload's. Have measured brass from both rifles the savage and the ar. The brass from both rifles is within. 001 to .002 of each other . The only difference is the brass from the savage the primer sits proud. 010 to .015 on all 50 rounds of mixed headstamp 223 once fired brass. Not worried about setting headspace just wondering why the primers are sitting proud. Still haven't figured out how to post pictures from a third party host might have better luck from a laptop. But at 100 yards you can cover a five shot group with a quarter.

Well, if it's happening with these, but not factory ammo, the problem is your reloaded rounds. Does not matter that it doesn't happen in your AR. Your AR uses a 5.56 chamber. The 110 is a 223 chamber.

Excessive headspace, underpressure loads, loose primer pockets or not being fully seated from the start known causes. Perhaps the shoulders are bumped back too much...perhaps they are cut too short....or THAT SPECIFIC CHAMBER in your 110. If I had your rifle and the cases, I could narrow down the exact "WHY". If you are reloading you should be able to as well.

Don't have any factory ammo but will pick up a box when I can I work 12 days on 2 off. Don't think its under pressure loads 24grs of varget is a compressed load. Have shot these loads in another ar and a couple of bolt guns with no problems. So I'm pretty sure its this rifle was just wondering what to look for as far as worn spots or other issues that other members that have these rifles.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hnusz

Don't have any factory ammo but will pick up a box when I can I work 12 days on 2 off. Don't think its under pressure loads 24grs of varget is a compressed load. Have shot these loads in another ar and a couple of bolt guns with no problems. So I'm pretty sure its this rifle was just wondering what to look for as far as worn spots or other issues that other members that have these rifles.

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Must work In golf.. quit now [emoji2]

There is life to live.


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No golf not my thing unless I'm shooting them. I'm a machinist in a plastic factory. I make all of the tooling between new customers and new machines I'm busy all the time . The up side is they are getting me new lathes and mills and moving me to a new building.

Finally got to the range got a couple of factory rounds from a buddy at work. Fired them no proud primers. They sit in a hornady case gauge between minimum and maximum the same as my reload's. Reload's and factory rounds were both 55gr fmjbt.