How do I get my new bolt to run smooth and slick?

Hello, did a quick search and could not find anything. On my 16ish year old .223 Savage Model 12 the bolt runs buttery smooth like it is sliding along on ice. I wanted to switch to 6.5 Creedmoor, and instead of doing a rebarrel I just built a whole new rifle (by built I mean I picked up a model 12FV from Cabelas, made a new laminate stock, and added a scope). The bolt on the new rifle sounds kinda rough and crunchy compared to my old one. Any tips on what I need to do to break in the new bolt so it runs smooth like the old one? I have cycled the bolt a couple hundred times with a good coating of grease in the action, but I don't remember doing much more than that on my old one. Thanks for any advice!

Tarter control toothpaste.


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Just use this one for 15-16 years and it should be GTG!

I would think there are areas that can be polished but have never done that.

LOL! Like the above says, polish ‘er up! What exactly is it you feel? Beginning/end of travel? The entire actuation? Are you by any chance confusing stiff bolt lift?

If it’s just general grittiness you feel, I would do like WMD recommends. Perhaps has some flashing on edges.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

LOL! Like the above says, polish ‘er up! What exactly is it you feel? Beginning/end of travel? The entire actuation? Are you by any chance confusing stiff bolt lift?

If it’s just general grittiness you feel, I would do like WMD recommends. Perhaps has some flashing on edges.

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Yes, just general grittiness. It's the interface between the bolt head and action on the tang end. It smooths up about an inch or so before going into battery and locks up tight and smooth when closing the bolt. I don't believe it affects function or accuracy in a negative way, I am just particular about things and want it to run smooth like my older one. So, to polish, would a Dremel with a cloth buffing wheel and Mothers wheel polish (the same way I do all my trigger contact surfaces on a new gun) be the appropriate tool?

If you have a way to break the bolt rear entry port angles it can make a improvement. Low angle is good. Jewlers files help are what I use.

Also a MDT Diamond Whetstone in Red or green slid back and forth on the bolt raceway will knock down rough machining ridges if there are any.

https://www.dmtonlinestore.com/4-Dia...ne-P41C11.aspx

That combination is the best you can do without buying a larger diameter bolt body. Fluted bolt bodies will make it significantly worse unless it is the type of fluting Fred Moreo does/did on the ones he sold.

The toothpaste may buy you something but I don't have any experience with that. I know it works wonders on a Ruger American.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

MDT Diamond Whetstone in Red or green slid back and forth on the bolt raceway will knock down rough machining ridges if there are any.

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^^ I did this to my 116 WW. It cleaned up pretty good.

My Model 10 223, I took a buffer wheel on a Dremel to to the bolt body. I won't post pics or pretend to be an expert but it worked. It is possible the surface on the bolt body is nasty where the cocking pin rides. I used my imagination and buffed it.

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Originally Posted by Orezona

^^ I did this to my 116 WW. It cleaned up pretty good.

My Model 10 223, I took a buffer wheel on a Dremel to to the bolt body. I won't post pics or pretend to be an expert but it worked. It is possible the surface on the bolt body is nasty where the cocking pin rides. I used my imagination and buffed it.

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I pulled the bolt out of the receiver to see about polishing the rails, and saw that the machining on the inside of the receiver is horrible. The scratches are deep enough that they will snag your fingernail and they have transferred to the bolt head (which also now has scratches deep enough to snag your fingernail). This rifle has never been fired, bought new at Cabela's a week ago. I am emailing savage with this photo; surely this is a defect. The inside of my other Model 12 is smooth as glass.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqDX0Sjk/IMAG5415.jpg

or you could by a stiller action and bypass fixing the rifle you bought.
ouch
just saying

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Originally Posted by bassnailer

I pulled the bolt out of the receiver to see about polishing the rails, and saw that the machining on the inside of the receiver is horrible. The scratches are deep enough that they will snag your fingernail and they have transferred to the bolt head (which also now has scratches deep enough to snag your fingernail). This rifle has never been fired, bought new at Cabela's a week ago. I am emailing savage with this photo; surely this is a defect. The inside of my other Model 12 is smooth as glass.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqDX0Sjk/IMAG5415.jpg

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It shouldn’t be like that but you didn’t inspect it?


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Originally Posted by bassnailer

I pulled the bolt out of the receiver to see about polishing the rails, and saw that the machining on the inside of the receiver is horrible. The scratches are deep enough that they will snag your fingernail and they have transferred to the bolt head (which also now has scratches deep enough to snag your fingernail). This rifle has never been fired, bought new at Cabela's a week ago. I am emailing savage with this photo; surely this is a defect. The inside of my other Model 12 is smooth as glass.

https://i.postimg.cc/ZqDX0Sjk/IMAG5415.jpg

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When I bought my 12FV, they brought one from the the store room in back and I asked to see it before they started the paperwork. The bolt was rough and nasty so I asked them to bring me another one. The second one was just as bad so I ended up buying the display model which was pretty smooth. I'm a Savage fan but, their fit and finish sometimes leaves something to be desired.

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Originally Posted by bassnailer

I pulled the bolt out of the receiver to see about polishing the rails, and saw that the machining on the inside of the receiver is horrible. The scratches are deep enough that they will snag your fingernail and they have transferred to the bolt head (which also now has scratches deep enough to snag your fingernail). This rifle has never been fired, bought new at Cabela's a week ago. I am emailing savage with this photo; surely this is a defect. The inside of my other Model 12 is smooth as glass.

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One of the last 12FVs I got looked like yours and was the least smooth of the many I have bought. I just lived with it and polished the rail with a whetstone and ran a JB paste coated bolt through it a zillion times. It continues to get smoother as I shoot. Don't know why I never complained to Savage...but it was only $220 after the rebate and discounts.

Brass brush for a 12ga bore in a drill and some heavy grit tooth paste is what I have used in many bolt body’s, actions, 10/22 housings and even chambers.
Then powered graphite.

Works pretty good.
Those 12fvs are machined so fast they usually don’t do a good job of cleaning them up afterwards.
Cheers


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That machining is on the more rough side of seen, but we are talking about very inexpensive rifles. I’ve been a Savage guy since I was 18 & bought my first. And I enjoy “fixing” firearms, LOL.

As for Toothpaste, I’ve don’t understand why it continues coming up. I mean, a 1/2” ratchet can work as a hammer....but I prefer using an ACTUAL hammer when I need one. We can easily go online & find compound paste in various coarseness. It’s not expensive, & is the correct tool for the job. So continuing to bring up toothpaste is nonsensical. I honestly believe it just keeps being regurgitated through ignorance.

Surfaces like the bolt/action & such are fine to use a Dremel on. However, I’m not a fan of using it on trigger components. Trigger surfaces need to be perfectly flat. The Dremel doesn’t do flat so well.

I’ve used toothpaste to polish slides on several 1911’s. It works great and cleans off easily. Lapping compound tends to get everywhere requiring total disassembly which I’ll admit isn’t much of an issue in a bolt gun as long as you keep it out of the trigger. As for the ignorance comment, take a hard look in the mirror, you’re it.


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Haven't heard back from Savage yet, but decided to shoot it today. I disassembled everything and clamped the action in a vise (with MDF blocks to protect it). I then milled a bar out of Hickory which matches the lug profiles perfectly, but about .002 small to make room for sand paper. I wrapped it in 600 grit wet or dry paper, then used some WD-40 to lubricate it. I ran the bar back and forth across the race ways to polish them a bit (staying away from the lug surfaces near the chamber). Cleaned everything up, greased the bolt, and put it back together. Bolt runs smooth as silk now, and everything functions perfectly. The deeper of the tooling marks are still visible, but no longer can be felt. I shot the rifle this afternoon, and brand new with cheap Winchester 125 grain White box ammo it is shooting 1/2 MOA. So, now I must decide if I am better off with cosmetic defects on the inside of the action of a gun which shoots great, or if I want to take my chances with a replacement.

Toothpaste works well because the abrasive component is pumice. Pumice breaks down and will not embed in the steel. Besides that, it is easy to find at the local store with a huge selection. My favorite is Pearl Drops Tooth polish. Used many a tube breaking in muzzle loading barrels.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

Toothpaste works well because the abrasive component is pumice. Pumice breaks down and will not embed in the steel. Besides that, it is easy to find at the local store with a huge selection. My favorite is Pearl Drops Tooth polish. Used many a tube breaking in muzzle loading barrels.

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And who doesn’t like a minty fresh smelling rifle?


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I have used pearl drops also but have not seen it in years. That stuff was pretty good at getting coffee stains off your teeth too.

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I have used pearl drops also but have not seen it in years. That stuff was pretty good at getting coffee stains off your teeth too.

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It’s still available on Amazon


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Polished my action with Cratex tips that go on a Dremel. Also some compound on a fleece wheel works as well. The sky is the limit when it comes to polishing an action. Just don't be dumb about it and take your time.

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Originally Posted by bassnailer

Haven't heard back from Savage yet, but decided to shoot it today. I disassembled everything and clamped the action in a vise (with MDF blocks to protect it). I then milled a bar out of Hickory which matches the lug profiles perfectly, but about .002 small to make room for sand paper. I wrapped it in 600 grit wet or dry paper, then used some WD-40 to lubricate it. I ran the bar back and forth across the race ways to polish them a bit (staying away from the lug surfaces near the chamber). Cleaned everything up, greased the bolt, and put it back together. Bolt runs smooth as silk now, and everything functions perfectly. The deeper of the tooling marks are still visible, but no longer can be felt. I shot the rifle this afternoon, and brand new with cheap Winchester 125 grain White box ammo it is shooting 1/2 MOA. So, now I must decide if I am better off with cosmetic defects on the inside of the action of a gun which shoots great, or if I want to take my chances with a replacement.

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You did exactly the right thing by sanding. Now all you have to do is apply cold bluing and you'll never see the repair. The groove on the ejector side is also a problem. I suspect they sped up their EDM process to meet production goals. My BVSS is silky smooth, so they can indeed do a good job when they want to.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

You did exactly the right thing by sanding. Now all you have to do is apply cold bluing and you'll never see the repair. The groove on the ejector side is also a problem. I suspect they sped up their EDM process to meet production goals. My BVSS is silky smooth, so they can indeed do a good job when they want to.

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I’m sure they are cut on a cnc a dull tool and poor qc look exactly like that.


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Originally Posted by ninner

It’s still available on Amazon


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cool

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Originally Posted by bassnailer

So, now I must decide if I am better off with cosmetic defects on the inside of the action of a gun which shoots great, or if I want to take my chances with a replacement.

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Is this really something you actually need to think about?

That is not an EDM surface finish in the pictures. Way too rough, and linear- which is a dead giveaway to a machining (broaching) process.

Accuracy always outweighs pretty.

If it helps any, I never give a thought to interior cosmetics. Function is the only main concern. Then outward appearance when first criteria is satisfied 100%. Anything on the inside comes if A: it doesn’t affect the other concerns, & B: I can easily take care of it. NO, I would not send a decent functioning rifle back because of interior cosmetics.

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Originally Posted by tobnpr

Is this really something you actually need to think about?

That is not an EDM surface finish in the pictures. Way too rough, and linear- which is a dead giveaway to a machining (broaching) process.

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Bingo!

Cleaning up the rough machining in the raceway absolutely helps Savage's models that are machined with older tooling. I have loaned my diamond hones out so much I had to replace my red one with a coarser blue one due to the grit wearing off of the metal. A hint to help get the whole raceway done is to use the eraser end of a pencil to work the hone back and forth applying pressure more to the rear or the front as needed.

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

If it helps any, I never give a thought to interior cosmetics. Function is the only main concern. Then outward appearance when first criteria is satisfied 100%. Anything on the inside comes if A: it doesn’t affect the other concerns, & B: I can easily take care of it. NO, I would not send a decent functioning rifle back because of interior cosmetics.

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Good enough, thanks for the advice. I'll do as suggested above and use some cold blue to blacken the polished parts so they aren't as apparent and focus on shooting. I can get a little too particular about small details sometimes, so it's nice to be able to bounce stuff off others here to make sure I am being reasonable. Thanks!

Go start looking at the new rifles and you will find most actions will have that very same "roughness" to the inside walls, even the stainless. For the most part the bolt head dont really ride on those surfaces but polishing them up wont hurt. I have several and some are worse than others, my best looking ones are at least 15 years old or more.

i see using a dremil or toothpaste and sandpaper, but would something like lapping compound work by putting it on the bolt and rails and cycling the bolt for a while?

I have used Jewelers Rouge

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Originally Posted by akgriffin

i see using a dremil or toothpaste and sandpaper, but would something like lapping compound work by putting it on the bolt and rails and cycling the bolt for a while?

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Indeed. And the cool thing is compound is actually MADE for steel parts, not to clean teeth. Go to Amazon and search “Lapping Compound”. The choices will astound you.

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Originally Posted by akgriffin

i see using a dremil or toothpaste and sandpaper, but would something like lapping compound work by putting it on the bolt and rails and cycling the bolt for a while?

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The idea is to keep things as flat as possible. The issue I see with lapping compound is that you can remove material from(wear) the bolt lugs. Due to the already wide open tolerences it is hard to concentrate on the exact issue. The bolt lugs are smooth so there is no need to use an abrasive there. The hone will just knock the tops of the rough edges of the raceway's burs. Because of the length, width and flatness of the MDT diamond hone you minimize high and low spots. You can focus on the bad spots and put more even pressure across the length. It is not perfect like an edm or a beter designed broaching tool. Been there many times before with t shirts and glossy color photos with writing on the back.

Another way to look at is; if the striations/cuts are linear. all you need to do
is polish the high spots. It's just less surface area for friction. The low spots
just look ugly and serve no purpose other then maybe a fill area for Dri-Slide.

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Originally Posted by Fuj'

maybe a fill area for Dri-Slide.

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This intrigued me. I may order some.

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Originally Posted by Steeltrap

Accuracy always outweighs pretty.

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The trick is to get a gorgeous wife who actually can cook great.