Axis Finally Responding Well

Got all the problems with the Axis Ironed out with Winchester primers. They just don't want to ignite first time in my rifle. They work in my 1893 Mauser, 7X57mm, Mannlicher stocked sporter just fine so they are reserved for that rifle only. Tested a load today in RP brass, CCI 200 primers, H4831sc/41.3 grains. Speer 100 grain BTSPs seated to 2.690". Velocity averaged 2869 fps. This round grouped three into 2.039" @ 200 yards in a 7 mph cross wind. Plenty good accuracy to drop a whitetail at that range.

Glad to hear it. Was going to suggest you cuss it but looks like things worked out without resorting to vulgarities. :cool:
FWIW I switched to CCI primers a while back also....especially like the CCI-BR2.

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Originally Posted by wbm

....especially like the CCI-BR2.

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Only problem with the BR2's and 4's is they cost nearly twice as much.

I like the CCI BR for my .308 as well, but, I still use the RemBR primers in my .223. I was going to use the Fed primers but the stores I visit don't have them in stock very often.

Don't know how much difference the Rem BR primers make as they are the only primer I've used in the little gun. The .308 I started with std Fed primers. It was VERY noticeable when I switched to the BR primers.

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Originally Posted by wbm

Glad to hear it. Was going to suggest you cuss it but looks like things worked out without resorting to vulgarities. :cool:
FWIW I switched to CCI primers a while back also....especially like the CCI-BR2.

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I have the BR-2s but reserve those for my heavy barrel 6.5 Creedmoor when I shoot long range. I did try some of the BR-2s in the Axis but didn't see any better grouping over the 200s. In my area, I have either Federal Primers, Winchester or CCIs to choose from. Remington primers just aren't popular around here for what ever reason..

I’ve noticed that my batch of Winchester primers also must be defective, in that they have a “click-bang” personality. (Hang-Fire)

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Only problem with the BR2's and 4's is they cost nearly twice as much.

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Yeah they are pricey. Sportsmans Warehouse had them at a good price this summer so I stocked up.

If the weather co-operates and the freakin rain finally stops, I plan on taking the Axis out to 300 yards to see what it and the hand loads can do.

Weather co-operated. Tested the Speer 100 grain BTSP over 41.3 grains of H4831sc. COL: 2.688" Velocity averages 2833 fps. 300 yard group average for 12 rounds was 3.068" Any deer within 300 yards is toast!

Sounds like you got it working for sure.

Unbelieveable!! "tried" shooting the Axis today to test handloads with the Sierra 100 gr SP over RL-17. Loads in FC brass fired three times. CCI 200 primers. 8 rounds in a row would not fire!! Tried twice, sometime three time but no go. Then when one did finally fire the primer is pierced! The load is nowhere near the max load for RL-17. I'm about ready to wrap the POS around the oak tree in my yard. Pulled the bolt down yet again. Noticed an area on the FP where the bluing was worn completely away. Rub area is just behind the hole fer the cocking piece. I polished the He!! out of the area and cleaned the inside of the bolt yet again and reassembled it. I may or may not take the damned thing to the range this weekend. I'd send it bac k to Savage but they require a copy of the sales receipt and I don't know what I did with that.:mad::mad::mad:

Not good. CCI-200 are my go to primers . . . but I see you are beyond a primer issue.

A couple questions first - when you reload a case do you first clean the primer pocket? And are you hand-seating the primers so you can feel when they seat properly? Any grunge can keep a primer from seating, and some presses don't give you any tactile feedback using the "stock" priming arm. Then the firing pin pushes it the last bit when it strikes it but any movement wastes that much energy. But there is no possibly way that would happen eight-in-a-row. That's enemy action.

Here's a couple older threads

https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...ng-pin-strikes

https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...ng-pin-strikes

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

Not good. CCI-200 are my go to primers . . . but I see you are beyond a primer issue.

A couple questions first - when you reload a case do you first clean the primer pocket? And are you hand-seating the primers so you can feel when they seat properly? Any grunge can keep a primer from seating, and some presses don't give you any tactile feedback using the "stock" priming arm. Then the firing pin pushes it the last bit when it strikes it but any movement wastes that much energy. But there is no possibly way that would happen eight-in-a-row. That's enemy action.

Here's a couple older threads

https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...ng-pin-strikes

https://www.savageshooters.com/showt...ng-pin-strikes

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Yes, I hand seat the primers. Primer pockets are cleaned each time they're loaded. All my brass has had the primer pockets uniformed with a cutter and the flash holes deburred. Read those threads. Could possibly be the FP spring and I will have to check to see if the sear is rubbing some where. It's strange though that this would show up after so may rounds thru the rifle. Initially, for the first 120 rounds I had no light strikes what so ever. Round count now is 278.

I know Fred will slap me for this but does dry fire sound week or does it have the snappy sound of a hard hit? Im currious if there was a bad batch of springs. Is there a way to test the spring tension with a postal or household scale? I'm thinking 20 lbs(pulled that out of my %#$) would be minimal.

Also make sure the trigger(or anything else) is not interfering with the sear travel.

If you take the barreled action out of the stock and fire some primed cases with the offending brass and primers , do the primers ignite?

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

I know Fred will slap me for this but does dry fire sound week or does it have the snappy sound of a hard hit? Im currious if there was a bad batch of springs. Is there a way to test the spring tension with a postal or household scale? I'm thinking 20 lbs(pulled that out of my %#$) would be minimal.

Also make sure the trigger(or anything else) is not interfering with the sear travel.

If you take the barreled action out of the stock and fire some primed cases with the offending brass and primers , do the primers ignite?

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Broke down the rifle and as soon as I separated the action from the stock I felt something drop on my leg. Turns out it was the anvil from one of the blown primers! That could have interfered with the sear release for sure. Reassembled everything and it seems like the FP is releasing with more energy now. I'll prime a couple of cases to see if the problem is solved.

Tried some of the original offending Winchester LR primers and they ignited the first time. Once I have dry weather I'll test it again with the rounds that wouldn't fire last range trip.

Finally got to the range yesterday. Re tried the ammo that wouldn't fire the last time. None of the CCI 200 primers showing a light strike would fire this time. Had one round that would not fire with an untouched primer. The rounds that did fire with 87 grain Hornady BTHPs/RL-17 are showing very flat primers like too high pressure which is odd because the powder charges are no where near max?

Broke the bolt down yet again to see what was going on. Still shows some scuffing on the FP body near the hole for the cocking pin. Also noticed a definite crack on the primary extraction ramp of the bolt handle. I polished the cocking ramp on the bolt body and the bolt handle primary extraction ramp and reassembled everything. Bolt lift feel easier than before. FP protrusion looks good when the cocking pin is released. I'm not giving up on this damned thing just yet, The 87 grain loads showed sub MOA accuracy at 200 yards. Range conditions at the time of firing was 42 degrees, 60% relative humidity with a 10 mph wind coming from my 10 o'clock position.

Only had one round that required a second FP hit, all the rest (23) went bang the first time. I'm going to try smoothing up the bolt body interior with 150, 300, and 600 grit paper. I'll try slotting a wood dowel to hold the paper while spinning it with my drill.

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Originally Posted by GaCop

Only had one round that required a second FP hit, all the rest (23) went bang the first time. I'm going to try smoothing up the bolt body interior with 150, 300, and 600 grit paper. I'll try slotting a wood dowel to hold the paper while spinning it with my drill.

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I would try a different washer between the 2 springs. I built a washer that.was..020 smaller on of than the OD than the bolt was on the ID but fit with .010 clearance on the FP.. It seemed to help line up the push of the spring so that there was a more direct line to apply the force of the spring s..

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Originally Posted by Fullquiver

I would try a different washer between the 2 springs. I built a washer that.was..020 smaller on of than the OD than the bolt was on the ID but fit with .010 clearance on the FP.. It seemed to help line up the push of the spring so that there was a more direct line to apply the force of the spring s..

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I tried grinding down a washer that would fit in the bolt body. Got one that would drop into the bolt body just fine but, after assembling the FP and sliding it into the bolt body it jammed up and would not work so went back to the factory spacer for now.

I machined mine out of a piece of brass bar stock.. I have occasional access to a small metal lathe.. How was it binding up? on the FP or bolt body? The FP is supported on both ends with the bolt head and the screw in rear cap I made my washer to fit within the tolerances I figured would be the most precise yet give me assured clearances with the consideration of the tolerance of the FP in the bolt body.. If I can get some extra time I will build one for you to try...

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Originally Posted by Fullquiver

I machined mine out of a piece of brass bar stock.. I have occasional access to a small metal lathe.. How was it binding up? on the FP or bolt body? The FP is supported on both ends with the bolt head and the screw in rear cap I made my washer to fit within the tolerances I figured would be the most precise yet give me assured clearances with the consideration of the tolerance of the FP in the bolt body.. If I can get some extra time I will build one for you to try...

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It was a royal pain but, I ground down a washer using my Dremel and a grinding wheel. The washer would drop into the bolt body past the threads after grinding but once the FP/springs/bolt was assembled, the FP was frozen up. I figured leave well enough alone right now and will try again at a later date. I'm working now on fitting a 38 Super barrel to my 9 mm Rock Island 1911.

Just returned from the range and it wasn't a good experience. First round I tried, 100 grain Hornady Interlock seated .013" OTL, no go, dead primer. Seconnd round fired but the FP pierced the primer. Same thing with ther third shot. Those tried were loaded in annealed RP brass trimmed to 3.033" CCI 200 primer. IMR 7828SSC, 42.5 to 43.0 grains of powder. Max charge is 44.5 grains. 42.7 grains showed somewhat flattened primers and sticky bolt lift so I stopped and did not fire the rest. Two out of six rounds were light primer strikes and did not fire. It just stumps me that one round fails to fire because of a light FP hit yet the next two had pierced primers!

Next was a Sierra 80 gr Spitzer boat tail in the same RP brass, bullet seated .007 OTL, CCI 200 primer, IMR 4166, 37.0 to 37.6 grains. Max charge 40.3 grains. Velocity 3228 fps. 37.4 and 37.6 grain loads all had light primer strikes and did not fire.:mad::mad::mad: I give up, will call Savage about sending it in to be looked at (found my receipt).

Glad you found the receipt. Let Savage fix it.

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Originally Posted by GaCop

Second round fired but the FP pierced the primer. Same thing with ther third shot. Those tried were loaded in annealed RP brass trimmed to 3.033" CCI 200 primer. IMR 7828SSC, 42.5 to 43.0 grains of powder. Max charge is 44.5 grains. 42.7 grains showed somewhat flattened primers and sticky bolt lift so I stopped and did not fire the rest. Two out of six rounds were light primer strikes and did not fire. It just stumps me that one round fails to fire because of a light FP hit yet the next two had pierced primers!

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That sounds like two different problems. A pierced and flattened primer is an indication of excessive chamber pressure.

What load manual are you using? I'm assuming this is still your .243 WIN (didn't see it mentioned in this thread) but a trimmed length of 3.033" is WAAAAY too long. That would be way overlong for overall loaded length. 2.033" would be OK; maybe a bit short.

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

That sounds like two different problems. A pierced and flattened primer is an indication of excessive chamber pressure.

What load manual are you using? I'm assuming this is still your .243 WIN (didn't see it mentioned in this thread) but a trimmed length of 3.033" is WAAAAY too long. That would be way overlong for overall loaded length. 2.033" would be OK; maybe a bit short.

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Yes that should have been 2.033" for the 243 Win cases. Just washed my hands and can't do a thing with em! I trim to the shortest case in the batch. I used the Hornady manual for the 100 grain Interlock loads and the Sierra manual for the 80 grain Spitzer boat tails. I have GO/NO GO gauges for the caliber so will check the factory headspace. If the head space checks out, I may just send the bolt back to Savage to be looked at.

Bolt closes on GO gauge, bolt handle barely moves when trying to close on the NOGO gauge.

Hmmmmm? You have eliminated the headspace question I guess. This is going to turn out to be a tiny piece of rogue metal shaving or piece of primer anvil that somehow got trapped inside the bolt.

That or demonic possession.

I vote for demonic possession. Needs an exorcism.

Yeah. Sacrifice a chicken first though...goat is better but more messy.