1899B rotary mag stuck

I've got two 1899B rifles with serial numbers 80,XXX and 13,XXX. The newer one has been in the family since my dad bought it in the late 50s and now resides with me. I'm hoping to use to take a BC bruin this spring. The older one just came into my possession recently and I'm trying to clean over 100 years of muck out of it.

The challenge right now is that the rotary mag is stuck in its cavity. I've removed the lock pin and although the brass carousel rotates freely, the circular steel lip at the end of the assembly seems to be stuck in the hole due to corrosion. I've squirted it a few times and have let it sit but I'm not quite sure whether it's safe to tap it from the action end. I don't want to damage it but I would like to get it out and clean out the cavity.

I've always stopped short of disassembling the rotary spring assembly in the past but I've had the assembly itself out of my other 1899 many times. Is anyone able to give me a bit of advise before I do damage to this poor girl?

Here's the one that's been in the family for a while.


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Great old gun. Keep it in the Family.

Maybe I didn't mention it but patience isn't my greatest asset. I pried ever so gently on the forward end of the carrier assembly and it moved almost immediately. A few more gentle nudges and out it came. The carrier looks to be in great shape but the bore in the auto cutoff where the carrier slides into is pretty buggered. I can't tell is someone has pressed a new sleeve into the cutoff or whether this is what it's supposed to look like. The boss on that end of the cutoff looks like it's been beat on pretty hard too. Worst case, I can machine a new bushing and press it into the cutoff bore. Everything else seems to be in decent, 119 year old shape.... NICE!

Hopefully these show what I'm talking about.


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I continue to dive in head first. I also decided to ignore all the warnings about disassembling the carrier. I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about, it's pretty straight forward.

It appears that someone has turned down the head of the bolt that runs through the carrier. I'm not sure why but that doesn't really matter now.

Whatever they used to build the bushing crumbled over time. I'm not sure if it was lead or soft cast iron but as soon as I poked at it a bit it just fell away.

At this point I think my best bet is to turn a small sleeve to press fit onto the turned down bolt head. I think I'll make it out of brass and add a bit of red Loctite as I press it on. That fix should last another 119 years.

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Machined up a new bushing that's currently over diameter and over length. I changed my mind on the Loctite and went with JB Weld. Mostly for the gap filling ability of JB Weld but also because I couldn't find my red Loctite. I'll finish machine the whole thing after the adhesive sets up.

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Looking good so far. Can't wait to see it complete.

With the epoxy set and the machining complete, it was time for a quick bluing. The assembly doesn't look as vintage as some might like but this is a tool for me, not a museum piece.

Stuffed it back in the hole and she's good to go again. Hopefully my repair lasts as long as the original.

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Awesome. Let us know how it shoots and feeds.

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Originally Posted by Frontier Gear

Awesome. Let us know how it shoots and feeds.

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Will do. I've been trying desperately to find some 180 grain round nose bullets to reload with but someone appears to have choked off the supply to Canada recently. Hopefully I can find some and get some reloading done before it warms up enough to go outside again.

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Originally Posted by Slinky Pickle

Will do. I've been trying desperately to find some 180 grain round nose bullets to reload with but someone appears to have choked off the supply to Canada recently. Hopefully I can find some and get some reloading done before it warms up enough to go outside again.

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Awesome work! With that rotary magazine you should consider a pointed soft point. I started deer hunting with a model 99 using the 180 gr. round nose. Regret selling that gun, however a cousin has it now, and his brother has our grandfather's. Good luck!
Barney

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Originally Posted by Barneyhunts

With that rotary magazine you should consider a pointed soft point.

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This rifle is chambered in .303 Savage and I'm not sure I can even get a 150 grain spitzer style bullet into the magazine let alone a 180 grain and stay within the O.A.L. of the cartridge. The round nose are the only ones that will give me enough punch for bear and still fit in the magazine. It's a great gun, but it has some built in limitations.

I have an 1899 take daon in .303 and it loves the 180 grain round nose, it was designed for heavy bullets. I've also found that a lot of my old 99's don't feed spitzers well, my .25-35 also loves the 117 grain rn's.

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Originally Posted by Slinky Pickle

This rifle is chambered in .303 Savage and I'm not sure I can even get a 150 grain spitzer style bullet into the magazine let alone a 180 grain and stay within the O.A.L. of the cartridge. The round nose are the only ones that will give me enough punch for bear and still fit in the magazine. It's a great gun, but it has some built in limitations.

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Maybe a 170 gr. 30-30 bullet? I see that Graf & Sons has 303 Sav. with 150 GR round nose and flat nose.

Cleaned, protected and readied for service. I was originally referring to them as sisters but my wife figures they're more like Thelma and Louise.

Sisters in mischief! :)

Ordered some 180 round nose today. Bear time.

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Slinky Pickle, NICE! Good luck with them.

Does anyone have an 1899 that was born between 1900 and 1908? I've noticed a difference in the bolt maching that I hadn't seen before. The lower one is the older rifle and shows more machining at the leading end. It doesn't look like a butcher job so I'm thinking it's factory but im not sure. If anyone can post a similar image of their's I would appreciate it.

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A couple more pics just to show how gorgeous these old girls are. It's going to be nice to hear them bark again.

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There's just something about the early 99's with an octagon barrel and straight grip stock appeals to me.

BTW, do you mind if I save that mantle photo to use as the header image on our FaceBook page sometime in the future?

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Originally Posted by J.Baker

BTW, do you mind if I save that mantle photo to use as the header image on our FaceBook page sometime in the future?

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Go right ahead.

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At long last the two 1899s and I had a bit of range time today.

Since they had both been significantly disassembled, the process of sighting in the front, rear and tang sights took a bit of time. I was quite happy to get through the process in about 25 rounds. After tapping the sights around I managed to get the grouping in the photo below at 50 yards. I'm quite happy with that.

Once they were sighted, I wanted to confirm that the 180 grain round nose Hornady Interlocks were the right choice. I lined up a few milk jugs and let one fly. The weight after recovery showed 93% retention. I'll take that any day!

All in all, I think the results were fantastic.


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I'm greatly empressed with your handy work. The human mind and spirit is a wonderful thing. Well done sir.

Hello Slinky


I recently acquired a 30-30 1899H in need of a fair bit of TLC. SN 118xxx. It looks like a “parts gun” to some extent - barrel might be a replacement and the number on the inside of the fore-end doesn’t match the receiver SN. No number at all under the rubber recoil pad, which came from a Western Field firearm of some sort. A ‘smith checked the headspace with go-no go gauges, and it checked out. Dummy cartridges drop in just fine. HOWEVER, the bolt will not close on a dummy. Not sure what’s going on there.


But I really wanted to take this opportunity to THANK YOU for the information - and especially the pictures - regarding the rotary magazine, as I’m having trouble there too. The magazine is difficult to load even though the rotor seems to rotate OK. My thinking was that it was wound too tight, so I took it out. I also attempted to take the carrier assembly apart, per your pictures, but could not hold the carrier spindle head tight enough to turn the carrier spindle (long screw through the carrier). But I don’t think taking the assemble apart is even necessary since the spring seem to wind ok and the screw is not buggered up like yours was. The fact that the rotor is sorta beat up is a separate issue.


So this brings me to a Question: Should the “carrier spindle head” (part 99-436) be able to turn freely in its space in the front of the receiver once the carrier spindle head screw (part 99-437) is withdrawn? I think the answer is “yes.” Mine does not; the space it rests in looks like it’s out of round. I’ll probably need to take it to a gunsmith/machinist to have that space trued up (truly round).


Thank you.


Forestar

Forestar, I'm glad to hear that what I posted helped a bit. As you suspect, that carrier should rotate in the bore it sits in. Are you able to get a set of calipers into the bore and check the diameter in a few spots? If it's egg shaped then it may be possible to gently bump it back into shape. It doesn't need to be a perfect fit because once the lock pin 99-437 is in place it's not going to turn. However, it should turn freely until the pin is inserted.

As for disassembling the carrier, remember that all the threads are all left hand. You should start by holding part 99-436 and unscrew part 99-438 by rotating it clockwise. Once it's off, grip 99-436 again and now turn the end of 99-435, again clockwise. It should unthread from 99-436. Once it's out, the whole assembly should then come apart. I've been meaning to make a video of the disassembly process but I haven't managed to do it. I'll see if I can put something together this week.

Slinky

Thank you for the quick reply.

I did not try to measure the receiver bore hole with a caliper, but I can see that it is somewhat deformed. (I’ll check with calipers as soon as I get a chance.) I think it got “squoze” by someone who overtightened it in a vise - perhaps when they changed out the barrel?? What I did do is try to feed the carrier in backwards - just to check for “roundness.” It’ll go in with a bit of wiggling, but it’s a tight fit - tighter in some spots than others, I’m sure. And it - sure as shooting’ - won’t rotate freely. Matter of fact, it (99-436) won’t turn at all. I did manage to reinstall the carrier assembly (not backwards) but I cannot adjust the timing since the carrier spindle head (99-436) does not rotate freely and I could not reinstall the carrier spindle head screw (99-437). Not much sense trying to put it all back together in its current condition.

I read elsewhere some additional info on the carrier assembly dis-assembly. There were a bunch of pics at one time, but it was an old post and the pics were no longer available (photobucket). But the description was very similar to what you just posted above, including noting LH threads. Since the carrier assembly seems to be in working order, I’ll probably just leave it alone for now, although I’m sure a good cleaning wouldn’t hurt.

If you or anyone else has any thoughts about the bolt not closing on a dummy round (full length sized, trimmed to length to spec, and loaded with a 150g round nose with no crimp) I like to hear them.

Thanks again for your time and help.

Forestar

Forestar, when you mention that the receiver may have been pinched in a vice that seems very similar to how one of mine was when I got it. There were obvious vice marks on mine and it had certainly been squeezed at some point. I could not close the bolt even without a round in it. I ended up GENTLY spreading the receiver. I've got 3 1899Bs here and I'll measure the inside of the receiver on each and see what they measure. If yours is too narrow, spreading it ever so slightly may solve both of your issues.

Update: I was able to reach down into the top of the receiver and measure across the opening. It's lower on the right hand side so you have to get the calipers in far enough that they contact both sides. I only measured two of my rifles but I'll assume the other is similar. The measurements I got along the length of the receiver varied between .595" and .605". Let me know what you find on yours.

It’ll have to wait until Wednesday; tied up tomorrow.

Thank you.

SP

I took some measurements and here’s what I found:

1. Inside the receiver bore hole:
1.229” from the 1 o’clock to 7 o’clock position
1.218” from 2 o’clock to 8 o’clock
1.209” from 3 to 9
1.223” from 4 to 10
1.220” from 5 to 11
I cannot measure the 6 to 12 o’clock diameter
NOTE: my other 99, a 1936 takedown chambered in 300 Sav, measures 1.215 +/- a few thousandths all the way around

2. The receiver inside width measurements from front to back measured:
~.589” just back of the rounded corner in the forward right hand corner
~.605” immediately ahead of the automatic cutoff
~.633” at the forward cartridge guide pin (99-415)
~.635” at the rear cartridge guide pin.
NOTE: the 1936 model measures .592, .635, .635 and .635 in the same locations, as best as I can measure it.

To be continued...?

Regards.