Brand New Reloader with ogive and COAL issues!

Brand new reloader and have some issues with my Savage Model 10 fcp-k in 223. I found my distance to the lands with my bolt action 223 last night and plan to start 20 hundredths off for velocity testing. I found my oal to be 2.254 using sierra 69 HPBT (this is already UNDER the 2.26 minimum for that bullet). Using my Redding competition seater die, I dialed 20 hundredths off and hit the right COAL of 2.234. When using my forster ogive tool though, the distance measured is only 9 thousandths off! I started with a coal of 2.254 and 1.857 for ogive and now I get 2.234 coal and 1.848 for datum. I brought the ogive back 20 hundredths, but then my COAL was 30 hundredths below minimum! What am I doing wrong here. Is my throat really that short. I have always had issues feeding with heavier factory bullets so maybe this is related. Can I be that far below minimum and try the loads?

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Originally Posted by Scroder

Brand new reloader and have some issues with my Savage Model 10 fcp-k in 223. I found my distance to the lands with my bolt action 223 last night and plan to start 20 hundredths off for velocity testing. I found my oal to be 2.254 using sierra 69 HPBT (this is already UNDER the 2.26 minimum for that bullet). Using my Redding competition seater die, I dialed 20 hundredths off and hit the right COAL of 2.234. When using my forster ogive tool though, the distance measured is only 9 thousandths off! I started with a coal of 2.254 and 1.857 for ogive and now I get 2.234 coal and 1.848 for datum. I brought the ogive back 20 hundredths, but then my COAL was 30 hundredths below minimum! What am I doing wrong here. Is my throat really that short. I have always had issues feeding with heavier factory bullets so maybe this is related. Can I be that far below minimum and try the loads?

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I see you are measuring 2 different places. Case overall length and to the OGIVE


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Book lengths are not "your" chamber dimensions. How did you find the lands? Once you find the lands then you take measurements and document so you have reference numbers for that bullet in your chamber.

Before you go any farther, you need to know the difference between 20 "hundredths", and 20 "thousandths".....

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

Before you go any farther, you need to know the difference between 20 "hundredths", and 20 "thousandths".....

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.020 vs .200

Not entirely sure what your issues are. As sharp shooter pointed out the thousandths and hundredths are completely different. I understand the error and it is really the failed school system teaching.

Lastly there are very likely difference between your die and the Forster tool. A little more info might help, and maybe try to clean up your numbers a little. It’s a little difficult for me to understand exactly what and where you are measuring. Also you do not indicate if your brass has been trimmed to equal lengths and consistent specs. Start reverse engineering your components and see if the error lies there.

Ok sorry, I was frustrated last night after messing with this rifle for 2 days. The brass is all processed once fired from Sages Shooting Supply which puts out greats products. I had some help tonight and we came up with a solid 1.840 ogive number to the lands using the hornady oal tool AND black sharpie looking for marks from hitting the lands. I then subtracted what I thought was 10 hundredths (1.840-.010= 1.830) and dialed my Redding Competition seating die down until all rounds were 1.830 at ogive. The issue I have is the COAL for the 69gr SMK HPBT are now roughly 2.220 COAL when the Lymans 50th says minimum for that bullet should be 2.26. So I am 40 hundredths off the minimum which seems really far or my throat is that short and I should just shoot them. Thoughts?

If your measurement are correct on the ogive --do not be concerned about the COAL.

I think I would load a round with no powder or primer and try it in your rifle at the 2.260 coal
It should take considerable bolt pressure to close the bolt if your measurement are correct due to the bullet being in the lands
Then try one at the ogive measurement you got at the lands 1.840 - the bolt should be easier
All this is just information for you to verify if you have the correct measurements and if the rifle chambers the round correctly

On another note: the sierra 69 gr can vary as much as .015 difference in the coal length due to the tip of the bullet (don't worry yourself on this use the ogive measurement)
My rifles all shoot the best with this bullet at ..010 to .020 off the lands

Please report back with your findings on the unloaded rds
Jack

Hey , Jethro...... I corrected yer cyferin'

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Originally Posted by Scroder

Ok sorry, I was frustrated last night after messing with this rifle for 2 days. The brass is all processed once fired from Sages Shooting Supply which puts out greats products. I had some help tonight and we came up with a solid 1.840 ogive number to the lands using the hornady oal tool AND black sharpie looking for marks from hitting the lands. I then subtracted what I thought was 10 thousandths (1.840-.010= 1.830) and dialed my Redding Competition seating die down until all rounds were 1.830 at ogive. The issue I have is the COAL for the 69gr SMK HPBT are now roughly 2.220 COAL when the Lymans 50th says minimum for that bullet should be 2.26. So I am 40 thousandths off the minimum which seems really far or my throat is that short and I should just shoot them. Thoughts?

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Using the term "hundredths" is "cornfusing" everyone.:confusion:

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Originally Posted by JW

If your measurement are correct on the ogive --do not be concerned about the COAL.

I think I would load a round with no powder or primer and try it in your rifle at the 2.260 coal
It should take considerable bolt pressure to close the bolt if your measurement are correct due to the bullet being in the lands
Then try one at the ogive measurement you got at the lands 1.840 - the bolt should be easier
All this is just information for you to verify if you have the correct measurements and if the rifle chambers the round correctly

On another note: the sierra 69 gr can vary as much as .015 difference in the coal length due to the tip of the bullet (don't worry yourself on this use the ogive measurement)
My rifles all shoot the best with this bullet at ..010 to .020 off the lands

Please report back with your findings on the unloaded rds
Jack

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So everything has been verified with a friend that has done this much longer than me. He got similar numbers. My ogive for the 69gr smk hpbt touching the lands is 1.840. I seated the bullets 1 hundredths of the lands at 1.83 which produced about a 2.23 oal which seems really short to me.

Buddy read the answer posts and learn. It will Get you continued responses.


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Originally Posted by Scroder

So everything has been verified with a friend that has done this much longer than me. He got similar numbers. My ogive for the 69gr smk hpbt touching the lands is 1.840. I seated the bullets 1 hundredths of the lands at 1.83 which produced about a 2.23 oal which seems really short to me.

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Please, let’s start using the proper measurement nomenclature.

Pick another bullet with a different ogive, ream the chamber for more space. :noidea:

COAL is really only important (if you cannot measure OGIVE) for making sure the round will fit and feed from your magazine. Since most people only have the tools to measure COAL, the reload data only provides COAL which gets you close. The poor man measures his bullet seating via COAL, the target loader uses the OGIVE which is far more precise than COAL.

If your loaded round will fit your magazine and your OGIVE measurement is less than the max, you are golden, COAL becomes irrelevant.

Rosewood

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Originally Posted by Scroder

So everything has been verified with a friend that has done this much longer than me. He got similar numbers. My ogive for the 69gr smk hpbt touching the lands is 1.840. I seated the bullets 1 hundredths of the lands at 1.83 which produced about a 2.23 oal which seems really short to me.

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So you are ten thousands off the lands at 1.830 your COAL is 2.230 Sierra manual is 2.260. If you take a case with no primer and powder, push a bullet into the case to 2.260, then chamber that round, can you close the bolt without excessive force? If not push the bullet in .020 to a coal of 2.240. Try to chamber. If not start pushing the bullet in by .005 and repeat. When you can finaly close the bolt you are within .005 of the lands. No questions. Now you can document you ogive to base length. Chive on.