First time loader, bouncing ideas off you pros

So I finally decided to try reloading for fun. Going somewhat cheap and "easy" by playing with a Lee Loader. Want to start with .308 and was looking at what my OAL should be. I have some Sierra 175gr Tipped Matchking, and man...are they long and skinny.

In my Howa 1500 they hit the lands at 2.980" while my Savage 12 is 2.930". Would you guys make up 2 different lengths, or just make a batch at say, 2.910" and be .020 off the Savage and .070 off the Howa? Anyone know if these bullets are sensitive to jumping? Or do you just have to try it and see...

Going to work up some rounds between 43-44 gr of Varget and start from there. I don't have a chrono and will just see how it goes...I am sure I will catch s**t for that.

I would spend the money for a decent press and dies. I use a Lee classic cast press a lot of their dies. Then tailor your loads to each individual rifle. Varget and IMR 4064 are good starters in the 308.

Of course I would love to go a better route... But that is if I even like it and find benefit from rolling my own. And I have about -0- room to setup a loading platform right now. The wife unit is already pulled taught with the gun and ammo collection. This one needs to hide under the radar for a while :cool:

I was at the range the other weekend and saw "John" who is *always* there without fail testing some new gun/load setup. He sighed and said the wifey found his stack of gun receipts and decreed he was DONE. No more toys... I do not want to end up in that boat. And that reminds me, I need to go to the FFL and pick up my new pistol...

Nothing wrong with Lee Loaders.

Stick with the two different lengths. Unless both rifles like it. Lee press may not be the best, it works so stay with it until you decide to really get into it. I don’t care for there dies though. Work with what you have.

I would try your idea of one load, and if it works well enough to suit you, that's all that matters.
I also don't see any problem with the Lee dies, other than i don't like their lock ring, but that's easily changed.
On a couple of my guns the OAL is determined by what fits in the magazine with the bullet i use, and both the gun and me are happy.

I started reloading using a Lee Loader for 270W. Here's a couple tips for using that type loader..
1st, use only brass already fired in YOUR rifle. The Lee loader only resizes the neck so if you pick up cases fired in another rifle that had more head space than yours, (which may be the case if you pick brass from an auto loader) you will have trouble chambering them. Some may not even chamber as they will have stretched too long. Also, you'll find that chamfering the inside of the case necks will aid in hammering that bullet in.
No matter what you use to reload you still need a few tools. Lube the cases prior to sizing. If you don't you'll end up having to hit the base too hard to get it sized and bend the rims.. This is not a good thing, both for the extractor and accuracy in general. Mainly, a manual. READ it and then read it again. Get a set of calipers to measure case length and OAL of loaded rounds. Cases too long are not good as the mouth can wedge in the throat binding the bullet in the case and causing pressure spikes. The Lyman EZ trim is a easy cheap way to trim cases.
Should you decide you like to load your own, get yourself one of the starter kits. Don't rely only on that little data sheet included with your Lee Loader.. Buy a decent manual. That book is the Bible for reloading safely.

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Originally Posted by PaddyD

I started reloading using a Lee Loader for 270W. Here's a couple tips for using that type loader.........

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Thanks for the info Paddy...

I am waiting for some new brass to come in as I decided my mismatch of previously fired shells was just too rando. I will be careful to note which rounds were fired out of what rifle as I move along. I already have a case reamer, calipers, and scale. I had not thought about needing any lube and will get that.

I spent last night measuring the OAL on all my rifles and am astounded at the differences. My .223s go from 2.300 (Ruger RAR) to 2.427 (Axis). And yet the Axis has consistently been one of the most accurate I have. The Ruger has also been the one that does not like reloads as it seems the chamber is tight while the Axis eats anything. Makes me think the bullet jump is not that big of a deal...

I'm about to be running 2 rifles in 6.5x47 and I'm likely going to get a second set of dies and match each set of dies to a rifle rather than always changing things back and forth. I'm hoping I can manage using the same sizing die, but only need a second seater die. Either way I know the best route is to match a set of dies to a rifle and only change the settings when I see something change in how the rifle shoots.

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Originally Posted by celltech

So I finally decided to try reloading for fun. Going somewhat cheap and "easy" by playing with a Lee Loader. Want to start with .308 and was looking at what my OAL should be. I have some Sierra 175gr Tipped Matchking, and man...are they long and skinny.

In my Howa 1500 they hit the lands at 2.980" while my Savage 12 is 2.930". Would you guys make up 2 different lengths, or just make a batch at say, 2.910" and be .020 off the Savage and .070 off the Howa? Anyone know if these bullets are sensitive to jumping? Or do you just have to try it and see...

Going to work up some rounds between 43-44 gr of Varget and start from there. I don't have a chrono and will just see how it goes...I am sure I will catch s**t for that.

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Chronographs are a nice tool, but not really necessary for the average reloader/shooter. I've managed to load some amazing shooting loads without using one. If you want to load accurate shooting reloads don't just pick a charge weight and OAL and load up a bunch of ammo. Chances are you'll be disappointed with the accuracy. Try this. Load 5 rds from the very bottom of the table and seat the bullet to the recommended depth in the manual. Then 5 more increasing the charge by .5 gn . Do this until you reach the maximum load in the data table. Get a piece of cardboard with ordinary typing paper and draw some 1" black bullseyes on it. Shoot the first 5 rds and note group size. Then on another target the next 5 and so on till you shoot them all. Look at the cases after firing to watch for signs of excess pressure. Take your best group and load up 10 of the same charge etc. shoot them. If they also shoot good load 5, .3gns under and 5 .3 gns over. Did it get better or worse? If better then take that load keeping the charge weight the same and alter the seating depth. I start with 5 rds .010" deeper and 5 rds .010" longer. Shoot them and note the results. Better or worse? Then add .005" each way and again note groups sizes..
This method is not the go to way of doing it, but it has worked well enough for me to get both my M70HV in .223 Rem and my Savage LRPV in 204Ruger shooting under 1/4" groups @100 yds.

I'm confused. If they only neck size why do you need to lube the case?

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

I'm confused. If they only neck size why do you need to lube the case?

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Because if you don't lube the neck you need to beat on the case too hard to size it and you end up bending the rim. As long as you don't care about that you can hammer them in dry, but once bent up they're junk.

First the wife thing, been married to this one 22 good years, but the first thing I told her is I hunt and I fish and you have no say so in such matters as to what I need for those activities, I still have my gonads, second get a starter kit with the basic goodies or look for someone getting out of the hobby either online or want ad's. Any single stage press will work regardless off the brand name, i used rcbs single and a lyman turret i got from the paper cheap. the 308 has infinite amounts of bullet and powder combinations, you'll have to find what your rifle likes no two are the same, you'll have to get a small base sizer die to fit some auto loaders and bolts with a tight chamber. once you fire form your loads to your rifle your don't have to full length size them any more just neck size, saves on working your brass to much and extends there life. read read read your manual i get all of them just to see if there's any new or different info been reloading for over forty years.

You could get 2 Lee Loaders and set one up for each rifle. I have loaded a couple thousand rounds using the loaders and had fantastic results. I had 5 set up for my old Marlin 336 .30 WCF. One for the Hornady 130 gr SSPB, the Sierra 150 FP, Hornady 150 FP, Hornady 170, Sierrra 170.
The Lee's were inexpensive and WORKED.

Much has to do with mind over matter, other than that it really don't matter much for most of us.
Fact is quarter size groups will suffice for hitting things a lot further than most will ever shoot.

Got my brass in yesterday and started loading. So first impressions...the Lee Loaders feel like they are built like a tank and will never break. I do wish the primer decapper and setting rod had larger heads where you hit them with the hammer. I am using a poly tippet mallet and wonder if they will end up cutting it.

I quickly primed 50 .308 and 50 .223 shells while drinking a glass of wine. Very relaxing to get into a rhythm and bang them out. You can hear and feel that moment with the primer "sets" pretty easily. Then I took the shell reamer and lightly hit the inside neck on all of them.

Then the first kinda surprise hits. I was quite taken by just how small of a difference 1 grain of powder is....very little wiggle room there. A full .308 scoop was giving ~43 grains of Varget which itself would be a decent safe load. The .223 scoop was only laying out ~22 grains, pretty light load. I also learned that damn powder will go everywhere if you are not careful. Don't even set the shell in the case too hard or it wants to bounce out.

So I worked out 3 charges for each round and poured out a total of 30 shells. Grabbed the 175 TMK bullet first and found the setting rod does not appear to be deep enough for such a narrow bullet. It feels like the bullet tip is touching and not the sides of the round. I was able to push down hard enough by hand to almost fully set the bullet and the tips don't appear to be damaged...we shall see what happens when I shoot them. The 69 TMKs on the .223 side do appear to fit properly in the tool so no concerns there.

So I initially set everything by hand and then slowly made the die shorter and used the hammer to finish them off. All in all, it was pretty easy and quite a bit of fun. I feel like I learned a lot doing it and look forward to how they shoot.

Awesome celltech. I have a friend that uses the scoops. He takes a larger than cartridge scoop and grinds/files/sands them down to give him the load he is after and uses a credit card to scrape the top flat. The weights come in pretty close if you repeat the process closely.


Let us know how they shoot.

So I figured it would be boring to only take 30 rounds to the range and I whipped up another 30 for another pair of rifles in the inventory. I still need to work on getting the final OAL down with the Lee's. It seems like the final blows with the mallet are not that consistent. I honestly would rather work on getting the round set with just the pressure of me pushing down on the die. So in the end I would say my rounds ended up in the range of .020-.035 off the lands....just not the constant .020 I was hoping for.

So things went both good and not as good, but lots of learning in the process. All the .308 shots were great from a loading perspective. No pressure signs at all. But also no accuracy to write home about, in either rifle. Almost all the .223 rounds were great, but getting into some pressure problems. I even blew a primer on one of the highest charges. So on the 2nd rifle I didn't even bother to shoot the hottest group. Guess I need to get bullet puller now ;-)

So I am not so sure what to do with the .308 progression. Do I try loading up some with a big jump? Do I try running them hotter? Or are the 175 TMKs a PITA and I should go for a different bullet... Thanks for all your suggestions.

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Originally Posted by celltech

So I figured it would be boring to only take 30 rounds to the range and I whipped up another 30 for another pair of rifles in the inventory. I still need to work on getting the final OAL down with the Lee's. It seems like the final blows with the mallet are not that consistent. I honestly would rather work on getting the round set with just the pressure of me pushing down on the die. So in the end I would say my rounds ended up in the range of .020-.035 off the lands....just not the constant .020 I was hoping for.

So things went both good and not as good, but lots of learning in the process. All the .308 shots were great from a loading perspective. No pressure signs at all. But also no accuracy to write home about, in either rifle. Almost all the .223 rounds were great, but getting into some pressure problems. I even blew a primer on one of the highest charges. So on the 2nd rifle I didn't even bother to shoot the hottest group. Guess I need to get bullet puller now ;-)

So I am not so sure what to do with the .308 progression. Do I try loading up some with a big jump? Do I try running them hotter? Or are the 175 TMKs a PITA and I should go for a different bullet... Thanks for all your suggestions.

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Did you stop at the max data on the 308? My Savage FP in 308 tends to get more accurate as the pressure rises. Still it looks as though Yours is doing OK down low. So take the best group and load 5rds .2 gns each way. then see if it gets better or worse. Better? Then take that group and load 5 more .1 gn up and down. After you've determined which load is more accurate then take that load and load 5 rounds .010 - .020" shorter and longer. You need to be methodical if you go at it methodically you will find the best load for your rifle. Don't look for loads that shoot in other peoples rifles unless you're not looking for target accuracy. Most of the time you'll find that what shoots 1/4" groups in one rifle might not get under 1" in another.
Don't get stuck on Varget either.. Good old fashioned IMR 4064 does very well in the 308

It requires an extremely accurate and repeatable scale to load in weights of .2 grs

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Originally Posted by Robinhood

It requires an extremely accurate and repeatable scale to load in weights of .2 grs

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Not really. Both my RCBS 502 and 505 do it every time I load with them. If your scale won't measure + or - 1/10th gn you shouldn't be using it to measure powder anyway.

I just bought some cheap $15 50g scale off Amazon. It appears to be accurate (using its calibration weight) and easily changes readings every .1 grains I add/remove. I have bought some 155 TMKs that I plan to try next. For the 175s I thought of doing the 10 round ladder and see if I get a grouping around a certain charge weight. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by celltech

I just bought some cheap $15 50g scale off Amazon. It appears to be accurate (using its calibration weight) and easily changes readings every .1 grains I add/remove. I have bought some 155 TMKs that I plan to try next. For the 175s I thought of doing the 10 round ladder and see if I get a grouping around a certain charge weight. Thoughts?

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As for the ladder method.. You will be needing to be shooting between 200 - 300 meters to get good results. I find my method of just using the load manual min - max table and load a series of groups of 5 rds in incremental charges from min to max. 9 times out of 10 you will find a load this way. Especially if you're limited in range. Starting at the manuals recommended overall length for all. Then when you find a charge that works, start playing with seating depths. There a many ways to work up loads, but I have found this to be a pretty simple straightforward method.

You brought back some wonderful memories of when I started loading back in 1963 I started with a lee loader and dippers, have fun !!!!

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Originally Posted by PaddyD

Not really. Both my RCBS 502 and 505 do it every time I load with them. If your scale won't measure + or - 1/10th gn you shouldn't be using it to measure powder anyway.

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I'd call either the 505, or 510, "an extremely accurate reloading scale". Never owned a 502, but I have the 505.


I've loaded a BUNCH of .30-40 US and .44 Mag with a Lee Loader. It does well enough; gets you 95% of the way to what $300 more investment might better. 97% if you weigh the powder each time with a good scale.

The Lee Loaders load good ammo. You can pick up an arbor press at Harbor Freight for $60 bucks and don’t have to keep hammering cases in and out. I’ve got a Rem 700P that loves Varget and 168’s. My groups run in the.1’s and.2’s.

I think RCBS products are decent for the $. I would highly recommend looking around for a gently used setup. The Rock Chucker press is stout. Every once in awhile they have sale in the kit that can be worthwhile.

If you qualify through Experticity RCBS products can be had for a good price!

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Originally Posted by deerhunter99

You brought back some wonderful memories of when I started loading back in 1963 I started with a lee loader and dippers, have fun !!!!

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Same here. Mom and Dad gave it to me for Christmas 1963. Still have it but updated to a Spartan c press when I got home from the army in 1969.

To this day, my favorite priming tool is the hand priming tool that came in the box with the cheap Lee loading kits.

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Originally Posted by Iowa Fox

Same here. Mom and Dad gave it to me for Christmas 1963. Still have it but updated to a Spartan c press when I got home from the army in 1969.

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You guys make me feel "young" again! I didn't get my Lee till 1967. 303 British. Didn't have a wooden hammer so improvised with a piece of 2x4. At 16, I still thought $2.00 or $3.00 a pound (Herter's brand) was a lot of money for powder (No Hazmat fees those days). Primers were less than .50 a flat and bullets ran from $3 to $5 a 100. Once you had the brass you could load a box for less than a dollar! But remember minimum wage was only $1.60 in those days. In high school I lied about my age to get a job on the afternoon shift at the Chung King Foods plant in Duluth, MN. With a $50 or so paycheck a week I was rich! A $100 car in those days would easily last 10,000 miles and car insurance was about $50 for 6 months. Gas was .27-.32 gallon(on payday you would buy "premium"). In 1968 I bought a Herter's "U" model press, still use it almost everyday.

Those were the good times and good years. No cell phones. You didn't have to lock your doors. Hunting was hunting and not a competition between "score" seekers. Never had to listen to all this "political correctness" bull crap. People had respect for one another no matter what their race or nationality. Young people now a day will never know how good it was. Ah yes, the Lee loader, good memories from the good old days.

Randy

You have me beat by about 8 years for smacking away on a Lee Loader (mine was for .30-40 US).

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Originally Posted by ssgairborne187

First the wife thing, been married to this one 22 good years, but the first thing I told her is I hunt and I fish and you have no say so in such matters as to what I need for those activities, I still have my gonads, second get a starter kit with the basic goodies or look for someone getting out of the hobby either online or want ad's. Any single stage press will work regardless off the brand name, i used rcbs single and a lyman turret i got from the paper cheap. the 308 has infinite amounts of bullet and powder combinations, you'll have to find what your rifle likes no two are the same, you'll have to get a small base sizer die to fit some auto loaders and bolts with a tight chamber. once you fire form your loads to your rifle your don't have to full length size them any more just neck size, saves on working your brass to much and extends there life. read read read your manual i get all of them just to see if there's any new or different info been reloading for over forty years.

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I thought I was the only one around here that produced TESTOSTERONE! Makes me sick hearing all the submissive, pathetic comments from adults and Men needing permission from their wives. Sad because there were some helpful people here that helped me out but this is pathetic.

Where she leads me I will follow.

What she feeds me I will swallow.

;-)

I married my best friend 38 years ago this month. I was 20 when we were married and $ were tight; testosterone or no. Sometimes a tight roof and groceries were more important than another rifle. She retired from hunting some years back but is still my fishing buddy. We're a team and I know she has my back. Nothing wrong with that. A couple times over those years we've sweated out finances (I've been "right-sized" & laid off three times) and in those times we discussed every outlay. But now we have enough to retire on (and I'm still working), the house & cars are all clear (and when I buy my next SUV it will also be with cash) and as long as the credit card gets paid off in full each month - no worries.

Except maybe the health insurance. :o

I can appreciate the "poor as church mice" times for those that have them. Few of us truly need every firearm we own and every reloading tool in the shop. Recognize that some have different limitations and priorities. Chest pounding aside.

So I set off to make my second round of ammo. Stuck to the previous formula that was working with the .223 and made another batch of 69 gr Sierra TMK with 25 grains of Varget. Also got some 155 gr Sierra TMK in .308 to see what they would do.

Now when I made my first set of .223 ammo I noticed that some of the primers sat proud of the brass a bit so this time I made sure to seat them in fully...but perhaps I went too far. Out of 30 rounds 6 of them failed to ignite. The primers were hit hard and had a great dent in them, but no bang. Is it possible to seat them too hard and mess up the anvil inside the primer? Or did I perhaps get a drop of sweat/skin oil on them while loading up? I really don't think I contaminated them, but am at a loss as to why they didn't go off.

To answer your seating depth question, in a simple answer; yes you can seat too hard or deep causing ignition issues. I’m sure somewhere is a good write up on how it occurs. Basically over exerting force crushes the anvil and causing a failure from squishing the priming compound away from the anvil and cup. That said I generally prefer to have a slightly deeper seating on a primer rather than a proud primer.

What primers are you using?

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Originally Posted by RustyShackle

What primers are you using?

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CCI 400's

I am not even sure how you can press them in too far with the Lee. I hope I didn't smash the brass that forms the cup too bad and ruin those shells forever. Of course I didn't bother to leave those 6 to the side so I can trace them later. I did previously pull 2 of the bad primers and was just comparing them to a new one. They are 35 thousands flatter than a new one, .1165 vs .1200, but other than that I see no obvious differences.

Oh well, guess I shall see if I get 6 more rejects next time I go out. Maybe it's time to get a hand primer...what is the best for the $$$?

Lee hand primer. I have two - one is 40 years old and still works. I got lazy and got a more recent version with the slide in "auto-feed" tray.

Still relatively inexpensive (around $20) and it does benchrest grade work if you are consistent. You also need a shell holder for a couple bucks.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/41..._-Lee-_-413473

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/7690

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Originally Posted by Stumpkiller

Lee hand primer. I have two - one is 40 years old and still works. I got lazy and got a more recent version with the slide in "auto-feed" tray.

Still relatively inexpensive (around $20) and it does benchrest grade work if you are consistent. You also need a shell holder for a couple bucks.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/41..._-Lee-_-413473

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/7690

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l’ve got the single shot model and the repeater. They’re both good but I like the repeater better. I don’t have to handle my primers with it. These are all I ever use. I’m surprised my fingers aren’t still black from primers going off while hammering them in the Lee Loader. My first one was a 44 Mag. Only way I could afford to shoot it. I still have 2. A7x57 and 223.

Wife and I have been married 44 years this October and dated 3 years before that. Every extra exspenditure has always been discussed in advance. I can relate to penny pinching. Used to rob our piggy bank to have money to buy a drink at work to go with my sandwich. Didn’t even have a TV first three years we were married. Finally bought a used one from my aunt for $25.00. Didn’t need one before that. Got my first press for a graduation present when I got out of high school and I still have it. Staying interested and having time to enjoy the things and people you care about is what is important. Keep your head down and ass up and the wealth will come. I could retire today if I didn’t need medical insurance but if a frog had wings.... Enjoy the Lee Loaders. They remind me of a simpler time.

Ended up getting a Frankford Arsenal...man, how easy. The wife even loves the reduction in noise from the lack of mallet whacking. Also gonna try some IMR-4064 and see what that does. Picked up some Starline .223 and .308 brass for cheap. It looks great and seems to be an amazing value...yall tried it? It's quite a bit heavier compared to the Hornady so will be interesting to see the charge weight differences. Also gonna play with some 53gr VMax and 180gr SSTs. Think I loaded up 120 rounds of various stuff last night so I will have a busy range day. I may not be saving any money, but sure am having fun :-)