Best Varmint GUn?

hey guys i was lookin for some input on a new varmint gun. what caliber? brand? heavy barrel or regular? i live in illinois so i wont need the rifle for other uses such as deer or elk or anything like that. also i may need to be able to reach out to 250+ yds at times. alot of guys i go with use 22-250s and they do a nice job. some use a 243 or a 204 ruger. what do u think would be best for me? (it doesnt have to be one of the 3 calibers listed) i would like to stay under $1200 after the gun and a decent scope.

I am right across the Big river from ya in Iowa and I understand your situation as I am dealing witht the same game and uses. What brand? A Savage of course. I really prefer a heavy barrel and so my favorties are the Model 12's. I have a 22-250 in a 12FV thats a real tack driver out to 300 meters that our range here goes out to, and it does a great job on all the different varmints it has come across. You didn't say if you prefer Stainless, or wood, repeater or single shot, etc. but I feel that the 12FV is a great place to get started, and there are nicer model 12's available as far as stainless and stocks go.
I also have a 204, a 223, and a 243AI. The 204 is as great as the 22-250 as far as accuracy but I notice a lot more wind drift with the smaller bullet. The 223 does a good job, but I find I like the flatter 22-250 or 204 over the 223 and as such I ussually limit my use to 200yds when hunting, but I know a lot of people use them effectively out further than I choose to. The 243AI is a newer one to me and I am still testing it out, but it shows great promise. I have used a 243 with great success and accuracy, bucks the wind well, and hits nice and hard. Little more recoil, little harder hitting, and can be used up through deer if a hunting trip is someday in your future.

If you reload then cost of ammo is kind of a moot point, if you don't then a 223 is nice and cheap on ammo if you go through alot of it. Just some thoughts to think about. And I am sorry for rambling too much :P

I own all mentioned in the previous posts (and other calibers as well).

IMHO, 223. With a 1:9 twist barrel, you can shoot 40's to 75 gr AMax's with excellent accuracy. No wind...shoot the light bullets. Got wind? Run 68 gr Hornady, 69 gr HPBT Sierra or Nosler, or 75 gr AMax.

Do you reload? If so, your ammo costs will be cut to 30-40% of retail, easily. Your first 1000 rounds will pay for the brass, bullets, powder, primers, and quality reloading equipment. AND...allows you to custom tailor your loads for your rifle.

Of note, I would HIGHLY recommend some quality optics. Yes, you can get by with a $100 to $250 scope...but if you bump up to the $3/400 range, your life will be a lot easier. Try a 6-18x40 Leupold with turrets. I prefer a fine crosshair.

...A 22BR is alot of fun... ;)

Savage17 . . . Best Varmint Gun . . . Huuummmmmmm ????? That covers a lot of territory . . And will conjure up a lot of different answers !! Kind of like the proverbial A$$ H@%$ Question . . every one has one . . I have or have had nearly all of the calibers mentioned above . . all are great calibers, and bootsmcgure covered most of it well. BUT . . and I say this from a perspective of viewing the .223 for a very long time as the best of the bunch for nearly all of the "light" varmints, even used to bad mouth the 22-250 as a .223 on steroids. No More !! I decided about 6 years ago to build a 22-250, got tired of burning the barrel off a good .25 caliber deer rifle and bit the bullet and did the 22-250.

Now after owning and shooting that caliber for that amount of time I have found the 22-250 to be about the best of the bunch for an "All Round" varmint rifle. I put a 1:12 (McGowen) on mine, because I wanted to usea a fast light caliber bullet for Coyotes, and if I want - Deer ! It is now the "Go To" rifle, it goes everywhere with me, even when I am going after PD's. I have shot Pigs, Deer, coyotes and PD's with it, and it does all of it very well. I go to soft point bullets when I go after the bigger critters, and stick to the V-Max's with the lighter ones. This may seem like a conjured up story, but it isn't, that caliber will do them all with good bullet placement, and that is the point to be made here.

I shot a Doe deer with it a couple of years ago, about 100 yards, I will most likely not do that again, but not because it didn't do the job, it ruined too much meat - lost nearly the whole front quarter with the blood shock. She went down in 40 yards DRT . . with a 55 gr. Remington Core-lock. Shot several Pigs with it with the same bullet weight, one was a 55 gr. R CL and the other a 55 gr. Hornady Soft point . . they drop like they were hit with lightening . . The pigs were both hit in the ear, or neck, didn't get to check the last one, he was out in a farmers Wheat field and it was late at night. . . culling them out, he just wanted them out of his wheat field, and for the most part - that did the job.

So - and this is just my opinion . . for all that is worth . . If I were to own "Just One" gun for varmints . . all included, it would be the 22-250 . . But . . I would also own a .223 for the lighter stuff . . I have had no regrets with the 1:12 twist barrel, this one will shoot into a 1" dot at 300 yards, depending on the wind, and that is about all I wanted it to do. I have a couple of .223's with different twist on them and I use them according to the weather . . and in Oklahoma, that is always the consideration to take in. Over the course of 45+ years of either Owning - building or shooting nearly all of the more popular calibers and wildcats, I am down to about 6 that I am rather attached to . . they are, and in no particular order . . .308, .223, .22-250, 25 Souper (25-308) a .264 Win Mag, and a .338-06 AI . . I shoot all the way from Prairie Dogs to Buffalo with them.

[img width=600 height=450]http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii138/13phantom/22-250a.jpg[/img]

Picture of the ole 22-250 I built . . .

Hope this hasn't lead to more confusion . . good luck with your quest . .

I have a stevens 200 in 223 and a remington 700 in 243. Both are excellent for walking when covering alot of ground. Both are very accurate with the stevens beating the remington everyday. out to 250 yards either is effective on coyotes. I live in Illinois also. Usually a 12ga with lead BB is best though. Also just built a savage 25-06 not fired yet.

For 250 yards, I say 223.
Powder last forever, little recoil etc.

If you like more recoil then 22-250.

I love my heavy barrel 223, my stainless 9 twist shoots everything I have tried from 40 v maxes to 60gr partitions pretty good, and really likes the 40 and 55gr vmaxes. And if you get the urge for more you can do like I did and get it rechambered to 223 AI, almost as fast as the 22-250 and about 12 grains less powder. I also have a 22-250 AI, and it is very accurate, but it stays in the safe unless I am headed for a dog town and I will need something else to shoot while the 223 cools off.

Mike

Model 12FV is my go to rifle for coyotes, in 22-250 it is deadly to 400 Yrds. Because of the weight it is super steady off the stix.

Have .222, .223, .22-250, .243, .25-06 and bigger calibers too.

It all comes down to your style of and what you are hunting.

Wind gets mentioned a lot here as it should but I have found that most of the critters I deal with (predators) are pretty well holed up when it's blowing much.

Barrel weight:

Do you sit or do you walk around a fair amount?

Whatever you get ...... it will work as you'll adapt to the weapon you chose.

The question is what are you willing to adapt to?


Three 44s

My favorite varmint caliber is the 204. My 223 does not go out much any more. I worked up loads for my brother's 22-250 and he does not take his 22-250 out when we go sage rat and prairie dog shooting any more. It is loud and you cannot see the hit in the scope due to the recoil. The 204 and the 22-250 are about the same out to 250 yards on a ballistic chart. The 204 has a better BC than the 224 bullets, until you get to the heavy bullets. You will have less wind drift with the 204 since it has a better BC. I really like being able to see the hit in the scope to see the red mist or the need for adjustment on the long shots. We were shooting out to 600 yards on prairie dogs with the 204s this summer. I have two Savage 204s and went with the thumbhole rifle for a carry rifle. I made a Savage 6mmAI for the long range coyotes. Tired of them sitting out at 600 yards howling and laughing at me!! >:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dcloco

I would HIGHLY recommend some quality optics.

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Well said.

IMHO - Good glass is not cheap and cheap glass is not good. At 100 yards a $200 scope and a $900 scope seem pretty similar. Once you start looking a long distance, there's no comparison. Buy a quality scope once and you will have a quality scope for the rest of your life.

Most any of the calibers mentioned will work on about any vermin you go after. I just recently bought a Stevens 200 in 22-250 and am going to go all out for yotes this winter. It is in the gunsmith shop right now getting the trigger done. I owned a remington 788 in that caliber for several years, and killed 26 deer, and 24 foxes with it, not to mention the number of blackbirds, crows, goundhogs, foxes, sparrows, and about everything else that walks or crawls in this part of Kentucky. After shooting the barrel out, a fella offered me more for the action that I had in the entire gun, including the scope, so I sold it. I can only hope the Stevens can hold the accuracy that the 788 would give, if not, it won't be here long, but my gunsmith said that it would, and he could make it perform if it didn't.

Anyway, I have full confidence in the 22-250, as well as the 220 swift, had one of them for a long time also. They will take everything from the smallest bird to a 200 pound whitetail buck, with a decent hit. Good luck in whatever you choose.

Well with your parameters, staying under $1200, shooting a little past 250 yards and it being a dedicated varmint gun gives you many options. I do a lot of walking/stalking for coyotes here in eastern WA. I wanted a rifle that had a heavy barrel, not a sporter but not a bull so it was a no brainer... A varmint contour! Another thing I look at is energy. I like to make "ethical" shots on coyotes and wanted a cartridge/load that will not leave the animal running. By a factory hornady chart a 55 gn V-max from a .223 is putting 576 pounds of energy on target at 300 where the 22-250 is putting down 770 with the same bullet, Actual spec's will differ if you handload. I personally have two .223's and two 22-250's. My primary varmint gun is a weatherby SUB MOA in 22-250. They can be had for around 750, they come sitting in a b&c varmint stock and have a varmint countour free floated barrel (.720 @ muzzle). Mine has a timney 3 pounder, EGW picattiny rail and a 16xSWFA SS scope along with a skim bedded action - it shoots consistant 1/2'' groups off a bipod.

If you are looking for a truck gun or a bench style p-dog gun then I would suggest looking at a heavy barreled rifle, savage 12 comes to mind but dont exclude your other top names either. I might get the boot for this but the sako actions are extremely nice! I have a heavy barreled .308 that drives tacks. Tikka (sako) makes a heavy varmint in both .223 and 22-250 and can be had for around 650. If I were to trade my weatherby in I would buy a Tikka heavy varmint. I am starting to ramble.... [img width=600 height=450]http://i1040.photobucket.com/albums/b404/showgun1_bucket/coyote11029.jpg[/img]

Quite the parameters for a dedicated varmint rifle. Mmmm, lets see, $1200 budget, that ought to be a pretty dang nice rifle after we're through w/ you.
-Action, Stevens/Savage
-Bolt handle (tactical), SSS
-Recoil lug, SSS
-Trigger, SSS
-T&T'ed, SSS
-Stock, actually several come to mind, 1st- I prefer the Choate Tactical series, 2nd- Bell & Carlson, 3rd- etc.
-Barrell, Shilen, McGowen, Sinarms, Northlander, Pac-Nor, etc. You choose, all are quite capable of fine accuracy.
-EGW, scope rail
-Rings, Burris signature series
Now, the important stuff, chambering! I can only offer 1 cartridge chambering and that will be the 22-250 Rem. However, the barrel you choose MUST have a 1-8" twist. My 22-250 has a 1-8" and I load the thing with 75 gr. AMax bullets. It will out perform any, and I do mean any, varmint cartirdge out there. Including the venerable 204 (bring on the comments), I have a 204 and it is great for Pdogs, up to coyote vermin, my 250 now gets the nod everytime for coyotes. My 204 gets the nod for pdogs. The 22-250 w/ a 1-8" twist is an animal and quite capable of taking deer size game, no prob. In fact my son prefers "his gun" for deer.
I echo Phantom's sentiments exactly, except add the 1-8" twist barrel. Good luck on your decision!

I like the .243 on any gun for varmints. heavy barrel or sporter! 8) dd

I have two Savage single shot bolt action varmints. One is an early model 112J in 25-06 that will put 75 gr hornady hp's in the same hole all day long. The other is a 223 AI with a 1 in 14" twist barrel. It basically shoots 40 grainers like the 22-250 shoots 55 grainers but you would not be at any disadvantage with a 204 or 22-250.

yes,,,a 22-250 is a "fast" round.

but i can cut my reloading costs way down by shooting a .223, and still be dam near point of aim at 400 yds with the proper loadout.

I've got a medium varmiter barrel, and shoot 40grain nosler ballistic tips in the summer,, but does tend to cut the yotes in half
on a charge of 26.3 of h335

in the winter months i switch to 52 grain sierra HP matchgrades, and pull my charge back just a little so that it'll cycle through my mini 14 like a champ. makes a little hole going in, and a little hole (if any) goin out. With that loadout in my bolt-action,, the dogs die inthe scope,,,zero recoil,, but TONS of kenetic energy at obsene ranges,,,compared to the .17(the 150yd gun).

a 22-250 wears out your barrel faster, and is a waste of money in this marines opinion

this thread is just about a month and better old but glad i ran into it, we plan to do some PD shooting in 2011 and have looked at several outfitters but i came in here mostly to see what most of you shoot, I go to www.6mmbr alot and of coarse they say the 6mm br is the best but i know there is no such thing as best , more is better, so i have a 12 F-class 6mm br , and a .223 varmit barrel savage, and another Savage varmit action that i will have a shileen 24 inch select barrel in a 6mm br, and another savage that i dont like a model 16 in 243 winchester i am thinking of a shileen 22-250 seems like the gun of choice for dogs to 300, i shoot sub 1/2 moa on all my guns 223 to 200- 6mmbr 300 and 600. Never have shot a 22-250 but several say to get a muzle brake is the recoil that much or just do to prolong shooting, what would you compare it to?

Thanks Frank

Recoil on a 22-250? it is noticably less than a sporter or mag taper 243. Mine in a Model 12FV with the 26in Varmint Taper recoils very little. It is a tad more than my 223 Mod.12FV but not enough to keep me from shooting it. I don't know that I would put a brake on it, but it wouldn't hurt. Me I am gonna have my 243AI and my 308 braked before I even think about the 22-250, with that cushy recoil pad I don't really notice it.

Thanks, good to know, if i have a barrel made i will consider that, i think like you, if i were to put on brake on something it would be my 308

Brake on a .22-250 could depend on the shooter sensitivity and the weight of the gun.

.308 dose not bother me, so a .22-250 sure would not and there is NO WAY I want to listen to the extra noise or subject those around me to it.

I agree to that Blue Ang, guess it does depend on shooter

I have to add my 2 cents. The .223 with a stainless fluted medium 1-9 twist barrel is the gun for P-dogs or Coyotes.
Manny shoot faster and flatter but for day in and day out $$ the .223 can't be beat. The 204 is a close second.

Reasons:
1). You can see the kill shot thru your scope from trigger pull to hit. The many reasons we shoot is fun, this low kick/recoil
is an all day gun.

2). The Fluted barrel is a must for rapid cooling in warm weather or a large P-dog town.

3). Accuracy, the 1-9 can shoot 34 grain dogtowns to the 75 grainers. Most devastating kill shots on Coyotes of 50 lbs or less
are done with the 60 grain V-Max. It also bucks the wind better in those flat P-Dogs towns that blow 24X7 while retaining the speed.

4). It's the cheapest of the 22 cal to reload.

I have a 22-250 with a 1-12 twist, and a .223 with a 1-9 twist. Both made by Savage, made only for Cabellas, you won't find them on Savage's website.
I shoot the .223 90% of the time. The only reason I don't shoot it all the time is the heat factor, I can get 25-30 rounds straight into a dog-town before it's too hot.

I like to shoot the 22-250 for coyote calling loaded with the 69 Grain Nosler custom Competition bullets.

They are both topped with quality Nikon Optics. Don't go overboard on the optics but expect to spend $300-500 to get a good one with a lifetime warranty.

Varmiter Model only from Cabellas........not available online also....

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/brows..._SEQ_105523380

Where your at you must run into just about as many fox as Yotes I would think, are you hunting fur or just killing ? Calling ? running with Dogs ? sitting over bait Or just riding around ? If your just killing (which I have no problem with these days on the coyote's) any of the calibers listed will do a fine job, pick what you like. If your hunting fur that's another story, Most if not all the .22 centerfires are way to big for the Fox. We call up here, most of our shots are well within 100 yards, a very good DRT bullet for a Yote is a 40gr Vmax in a .223 ( Our Coyote's aren't worth much) as long as you get a frontal shot or miss a bone going in, your good to go to sell the bloody thing, nick a bone of any kind going in and they don't make enough thread to sew the hole up, run that same bullet into a fox OR heaven forbid a Bobcat ( both worth quite a bit more from up here) your 9 times out of 10 carring 2pc's out, I've kinda been leaning to the .17 Remington..

A_Gamedog, glad you did put your 2 cents in, I shoot my .223 more then any other in 200 yard varmint class heres mine with a Hart stock i got at stock Stocks http://s732.photobucket.com/albums/w...0for%20savage/ , talk about low recoil my F Class savage in 6mm br is better then 223 doesnt move a hair as far as optics i will use several i plan to take 3 or 4 guns, leupold 6x18 variable Target.Hunter 1/8 dot--leupold competition 45x i have on two guns one is 1/8 dot other fine cross hair and a T36 weaver and a bushnel 5x15, I really want a Nightforce 15x42 with NP-R1 or NP-R2 most common sence recticle i have ever seen the bars are in 1 moa and 2 moa far better then any mildot with mildot you have to be a mathematical genous to figure in your head,my memory at 63 is not that great i need simple, useing MOA you should know your drop you can go 1000 yards no problem.

one more thing is brass i can get tons of 223 brass , I sell it for a indoor range, and best part most is once fired , but we sell in big volume 55 gallon drums mixed caliber right off the floor all over the country also have a web store for regular 1000 and 500 lot buyers, I have contacted by phone the owner of this site to be a vendor but have not got around to doing it yet plus we had a fire a month ago that was contained to the range destroyed 30% of the rafters so the range is shut down until we get it fixed about Febuary we have 18 bays at this time of year they are normally packed with shooters, but gun sales are good right now we are in arnold missouri since i am not sure if i can put a link to it i wont but you can google it top gun shooting sports.

Yoda . . and the rest of the posters . . I have found that the 17 is a great caliber for just about all of the Fur Keepers, only an entrance wound. My cousins wife has been shooting coyotes with the 17 HMR and doing a fine job with it out to 150+ yards, she says they just "Keel over" !! I put together a 17 Rem. Fire Ball last year and it is getting to be nearly the "go to" gun. I took it to the PD fields last year and had a great time with it out to 300 yards, but it loads up pretty quickly - about 100 rounds and it needs to be "de-coppered", but, to that point . . it's like shooting a laser ! I used the foam copper remover and cleaned it out and I was back to shooting it again. I put some ultra-bore agent in it and it cleans up quickly. That is one neat cartridge, I reload for it exclusively, but got a wild hair and bought some factory to see what it was doing . . wow . . over the chrono it was doing 4020 fps pretty consistently . . I haven't quite got my reloads to go that fast yet, but close and more importantly . . dead on accurate !! It will put a 20 gr. pill into a 1/2" dot at 200 yards. Everything I have pulled the trigger on it with so far has died . . . ;)

The .223 is still the go to gun on PD's, but the 22-250 is the stand by for that, and as far as recoil, hardly noticeable, unless you have had Rotator Cup surgery . . then you may notice it some. I shoot the 55 gr. V-Max in mine and it works well to around the 300 yard line and that is about as good as these ole eyes are going to get these days. I do go further out with the 22-250 but not much, it is not a game of how far out we can get them with the guys I run with, hitting them with the least amount of shots is. Dribbling lead across the desert isn't all the fun it used to be . . . ;) Now we try to hit them with the first or second shot and keep the shots to a minimum . . granted it is still a shooting game, but it is getting more expensive all the time.

I am in the process of putting a 6 BR together, would like to make it to the field with it this year, time will tell !! But I usually take the .223's and the 17's and go have a good time. The 250 is always along though, I just can't seem to go afield without it any more, too good a cartridge to leave home, the picture of it is still on this link above. . .

I am going to try this year, after the deer season to get into the field and do some coyote calling, we have a place down along the Red River that is full and need to be culled out some, going to get to see just what the 17 RFB will really do, the animals I have shot with it so far didn't take a step, and the friends that I have that shoot it say the same thing about the coyotes that are hit with it. I also have a 17 Rem, but have had a hard time getting it to the same level of accuracy as the Fire Ball, don't know why, it just isn't quite there, good caliber, but for some reason it just doesn't want to step up to the plate like the FB did, still working on it though. I got a book on "all" of the 17's and it has a lot of good info in it, trying most of it yet.

Phantom . .

Thanks phantom, the fireball was another cartridge I will be looking at before the stevens gets a new barrel..

Yoda:

I call coyotes now but 35 years ago I was a fur trapper 4 months out of the year. "Killed just about everything that walked or crawled" 50+ grey fox in a season was average.

The 17 HMR is highly accurate, fun to shoot, but not right for a coyote, I have one I shoot a lot, a gut shot to a P-Dog leaves them crawling back to the hole but not very humanely.

Some P-Dogs are not even crawling, they are running with virtually no effect seen. All you hear is a "Pop" then they leave.

The 17 Fireball when used is fouled before 50+ shots, If you are a high volume shooter the .223 is the ticket especially if you buy over the counter ammo. If you reload

it's a no brainer, .223 hands down.

If you are only going to get one gun and shoot less than 1,000 rds each year, then the 22BR, 22-250, .243, 6BR, in that order. They all use more

powder than the 204 or the .223. I shot many coyotes in my younger years with a 30-06 because that's all I had, I used 2 lb fishing line to sew

the 147 FMJ hole back up before the fur sale.

I am blessed with multiple HB Varmint rifles and a couple not so HV tack-drivers as well. But if it absolutely has to be dead right there- my circa 1970s Savage M10 26" HB .220 Swift w/ 10X glass. Speer #8 Manual yields excellent loads w/ 4064 and a Sierra 55gr. SPBT and a Speer 52gr HPBT load near 4000 fps. Most recent victim was a feral dog harassing on of my female dogs in heat. He stopped to look back on the far side of a 10 acre pasture later laser-ranged @ 375 yds. My Rem M700 .223 HB is a 1-hole grouper w/ handloads as is my glass-bedded Rem 788 in .222.

It's really hard to beat a Savage LRPV in .204 with a Nightforce 12-42 Benchrest scope with their mil dot reticle.

Terry

For small carry rifle...I like my CZ 527 American in.204. But in the winter I carry my snow camo M10 Savage in .223...both rifles have Nitrex 3x15x42 scopes on them. Both these rifles are used for crows and woodchuck.

i have a model 12 bctss 204 its deadly on dogs out past 400 yds,ive shot pdogs at 600 with it and i have a remmy 204 with a 1-9 twist bbl. i shoot berger 50 and 55 gr pills through it and it has killed yotes past 500 yds no problems

My everyday, out of the gun safe ready to deploy is my Savage .220 Swift 26" HB w/ a Bushnell 10X scope. Load is 55gr. Sierra BTSPs or Speer 52gr HPBTs over IMR 4064 (Speer #8). Last deployment was feral dog bothering my hound dogs that stpped to look back across a 20 acre pasture. Lasered after the shot-355 yds. and I don't even remember holding over! DRT, not a kick.

I like the 22br model 12bvss same velocity as 22-250 less better accuracy less powder means less heat barrel will last much longer. But thats just what works for me to each his own! :)

My all around favorite,Ruger 77 ts 220 Swift. 2.5x8 VariX111, 39 grs 4064 50 and 55 gr bullets that are accurate. Mostly Hornady and Noslers. Also kills deer right now.

Savage's new walking varminter in 204 Ruger looks like a real winner to me... nice beavertail design in the stock for solid benchrest performance, reasonably light weight taper in the barrel and action so you don't kill yourself carrying over hill and dale.

I'm looking forward to hearing about results w/ these rifles.

My personal favorite varmint rifle is a Remington built 03-A3 w/ a Sako take-off barrel chambered to 6mm-250 and stocked in a beautiful Fajen w/ cheek piece. I topped it w/ a period-correct Weaver K6 microtrak and while it is heavy it is UBBER accurate and a real joy to shoot.