SA 284 Winchester build driving me crazy

Wanted to build a short action did some research decided on 284 Winchester
foubd an action and bottom metal for dbm so I purchased them then came more research while I tried to decide on barrel
and stock so decided on B&C M40 well then I would need varmit weight barrel not what I wanted
continued to look at barrel companies and read all threads that I could find on the 284 well then confusion entered the game
action length, magazine length, the rounds coal, problems with coal in short action bullet seating depth to much free jump
yea headaches then I decided on SS 24 in sporter weight barrel from CBI called NSS and he stated that 284 should only be put in long action to be able to use the 175 and 180 gr bullets, explained that I wanted to use 140 and 160 grain only so he tells me that the throat will be a bit long and I wound be able to load out to the lands and groves well my 257 Weatherby has built in free jump part of standard bore and it will shoot .5 MOA
So I ordered the barrel nut and lug from NSS so no looking back now the build will go forward I just hope that the yea it will work just fine guys are correct
and the nay sayers are wrong

Some punctuation would go a LONG way in making that post readable.

The .284 Winchester is a little long for a short-action IF you want to run the long, high B.C. match bullets seated out to maximize case capacity for powder. It will work fine if you mostly want to shoot typical hunting style bullets through it (140gr Partition, etc). The solid copper hunting bullets could pose a length/capacity issue as well. Most factory rifles that were chambered in .284 Winchester were built on a short action (Savage 99, Winchester 88, Winchester Model 100, etc.).

Regarding the chamber and throat length, the SAAMI spec chamber is for a hunting style bullet so it wouldn't be an issue. If it's a custom reamer throated for match bullets, that would result in a longer jump to the lands but that doesn't necessarily mean it's no good. Everyone seems to think they need to have the ogive just touching or just off the lands, but more often than not you'll find that seating the bullet well off the lands can be just as accurate. Most don't know because they've never tried.

I have a 23" long Shilen 1-9" twist #4 contour (medium sporter) in .284 Win on an Axis with a short-action magazine and don't have any problems with magazine length and 140 grain hunting bullets. I've even run some 140gr Barnes TTSX bullets through it, but being a solid they're longer and extended much further into the case than the 140gr Patition with an OAL of 2.990". At that length I'm well off the lands but it shoots 3/4 MOA at 200 yards which is more than accurate enough to kill anything I'll be shooting at with it.

Here's a photo comparing the above 140gr Partition round at 2.990" OAL in S/A and L/A centerfeed magazines. As you can see it fits fine in the S/A and has a ton of room to spare in the L/A.

Attachment 3663

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Originally Posted by handirifle

Some punctuation would go a LONG way in making that post readable.

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Yea probably lol but I did fail English without word I would be screwed

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

The .284 Winchester is a little long for a short-action IF you want to run the long, high B.C. match bullets seated out to maximize case capacity for powder. It will work fine if you mostly want to shoot typical hunting style bullets through it (140gr Partition, etc). The solid copper hunting bullets could pose a length/capacity issue as well. Most factory rifles that were chambered in .284 Winchester were built on a short action (Savage 99, Winchester 88, Winchester Model 100, etc.).

Regarding the chamber and throat length, the SAAMI spec chamber is for a hunting style bullet so it wouldn't be an issue. If it's a custom reamer throated for match bullets, that would result in a longer jump to the lands but that doesn't necessarily mean it's no good. Everyone seems to think they need to have the ogive just touching or just off the lands, but more often than not you'll find that seating the bullet well off the lands can be just as accurate. Most don't know because they've never tried.

I have a 23" long Shilen 1-9" twist #4 contour (medium sporter) in .284 Win on an Axis with a short-action magazine and don't have any problems with magazine length and 140 grain hunting bullets. I've even run some 140gr Barnes TTSX bullets through it, but being a solid they're longer and extended much further into the case than the 140gr Patition with an OAL of 2.990". At that length I'm well off the lands but it shoots 3/4 MOA at 200 yards which is more than accurate enough to kill anything I'll be shooting at with it.

Here's a photo comparing the above 140gr Partition round at 2.990" OAL in S/A and L/A centerfeed magazines. As you can see it fits fine in the S/A and has a ton of room to spare in the L/A.

Attachment 3663

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Yea it's a match reamer but hey now I know the difference in 284 win and 284 match so I gues I will have some jump but like you said my Weatherby has jump and it is 1/2 MOA
I guess I should have asked a few more questions and I would have went with different barrel I thought match was just a better grade
and this will be a hunting rifle and 3/4 MOA at 200 is better then I can shoot anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bigbuckdn

Yea it's a match reamer but hey now I know the difference in 284 win and 284 match so I guess I will have some jump but like you said my Weatherby has jump and it is 1/2 MOA
I guess I should have asked a few more questions and I would have went with different barrel I thought match was just a better grade
and this will be a hunting rifle and 3/4 MOA at 200 is better then I can shoot anyway.

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I would guess James at NSS was talking about a Shilen Select Match grade barrel when you spoke with him, which is Shilen's top grade barrel. Not sure how Shilen grades their barrels, but I would guess the Select Match are those with the straightest bores and most consistent air gauge measurements.

The reamer used is a different matter. As I said previously, a SAAMI spec reamer will be have a throat length (or freebore length) for standard hunting ammunitions. A "match" or "long throat" custom reamer will cut a longer throat (or have more freebore) to allow for those longer match bullets. When it comes to the .284 based cartridges (6-284, 6.5-284, etc) most barrel makers will be using a match reamer with the longer throat because that's what 99% of their customers are wanting. The basic .284 Winchester can go either way as it's still a popular hunting round for those in the know and it's also popular with some long-range competitive shooters.

Best thing to do is contact the barrel maker directly and ask them what reamer they use.

Here's a shot showing the difference in length between the 140gr Nosler Partition and the 140gr Barnes TTSX bullet. Same weight and both are intended for hunting, but the TTSX is much longer because it's solid copper.

Attachment 3665

A word of caution, contours of lands and throating can be different.

Weatherby achieving a big jump with accuracy may not work with other setups.

As to Shillen, straight is not a factor per follows. No after market barrel maker I know of will let a bent barrel out the door (other than accidentally)
Savage may still practice the art of barrel straightening.

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Shillen:

Select Match Grade
These stainless steel masterpieces of machining and lapping are intended for the competition shooter-- or even the hunter-- who wants the ultimate in accuracy and quality. These are our highest grade barrel and, of course, the most costly. What makes them so good that benchrest shooters, such as Tony Boyer, crave them? Consider this: To meet Select Match Grade criteria, the groove diameter must air gauge within .0003" of our standard diameter. Moreover, the uniformity of the bore cannot vary more than .0001" for the entire length of the barrel. These barrels are also completely stress relieved, and the bore is polished to a gleaming surface finish by our most experienced lappers.

Match Grade
All Shilen Barrels are made with the same care and precision but our Match Grade barrels don't quite meet Select Match criteria-- but not by much! In these barrels, the bore must measure within .0005" of our standard diameter and the groove cannot vary in diameter more than .0003" for the length of the barrel. So how much accuracy does a couple of "tenths" give away, compared to our Select Match barrels? Perhaps not any! The point is, whether or not there is any real difference in the accuracy potential between the Match and Select Match grades, the really demanding shooter must play it safe and go with the higher grade. In many cartridges and barrel twists, the accuracy difference between the two simply can't be detected. So unless you're gunning for one-hole groups or just demand the top of the line, the Match Grade barrel is your best choice for many forms of competitive shooting, or for hunting varmints and big game. The Match Grade like all Shilen Barrels are completely stress relieved and fully warranted.

Both are available in all calibers, twists and contours.

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Originally Posted by RC20

A word of caution, contours of lands and throating can be different.

Weatherby achieving a big jump with accuracy may not work with other setups.

As to Shillen, straight is not a factor per follows. No after market barrel maker I know of will let a bent barrel out the door (other than accidentally)
Savage may still practice the art of barrel straightening.

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Very few )if any) bores are perfectly straight simply due to the nature of deep hole drilling. Bits naturally flex (bow) and walk, and the smaller the caliber the worse it is. This is why a lot of barrel makers don't offer .17 and .20 caliber barrels, and those that do charge a premium for them - it's because the scrape rate is so high. Barrel makers cull the worst ones, but just because they send it out the door doesn't mean it's perfectly straight. If they applied that standard very few barrels would ever leave their facility.

Case in point is the one and only McGowen barrel I ever owned. The bore in it was not only off-center at one end of the blank, but it was so bowed that you only saw a 2/3 of the hole on the muzzle end when looking through it from the breech. McGowen didn't even notice when they indexed it up in their lathe either as the chamber was centered in the blank but noticeably off-center to the bore.

Savage checks and straightens the bore of every barrel they make as I'm sure most other barrel makers do, but you'll rarely ever find a bore that's perfectly straight end to end. The tool is a Line Straightening or Barrel Straightening Machine, and is basically a manual screw press. The operator looks through the barrel at a light box and based on the shadows inside the barrel they can tell which way it needs to be tweaked to be straightened.

This pic is from the Springfield Armory Museum page and was taken during WWII
https://www.nps.gov/spar/learn/histo....58.1_copy.jpg

This pic is from the Savage Arms factory a few years back. The same machine and process is still being used to this day.
Attachment 3668

BTW, this is also why your barrel may appear to be bent or to run off to one side or the other in your stock. The straightening process takes place after the barrels are contoured, so if the bore was bowed and needed straightened out it's going to result in an outside that's not straight.

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

I would guess James at NSS was talking about a Shilen Select Match grade barrel when you spoke with him, which is Shilen's top grade barrel. Not sure how Shilen grades their barrels, but I would guess the Select Match are those with the straightest bores and most consistent air gauge measurements.

The reamer used is a different matter. As I said previously, a SAAMI spec reamer will be have a throat length (or freebore length) for standard hunting ammunitions. A "match" or "long throat" custom reamer will cut a longer throat (or have more freebore) to allow for those longer match bullets. When it comes to the .284 based cartridges (6-284, 6.5-284, etc) most barrel makers will be using a match reamer with the longer throat because that's what 99% of their customers are wanting. The basic .284 Winchester can go either way as it's still a popular hunting round for those in the know and it's also popular with some long-range competitive shooters.

Best thing to do is contact the barrel maker directly and ask them what reamer they use.

Here's a shot showing the difference in length between the 140gr Nosler Partition and the 140gr Barnes TTSX bullet. Same weight and both are intended for hunting, but the TTSX is much longer because it's solid copper.

Attachment 3665

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Yea that is what I did CBI uses a long throat which is why I am switching my order to shilen as they use a standard reamer on the 284

K I picked up my Action today from my FFL that I bought here from mrbroochi and the action is great Brand new not a mark on it
I dropped it off at local gunsmith who has 1 tool I don't a lathe he is gonna check it and true the face if nessasary
Then I just need to wait for the barrel lug and nut to arrive and I can start my build.
Lets face it now it's just a matter of money and parts

Shilen would most likely have short freebore. Along with the Savage Short Action Magazines having a max COAL of 2.990", the 284 Win would be very happy in a Savage Short Action shooting 140 to 160 grainers.

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Originally Posted by Zero333

Shilen would most likely have short freebore. Along with the Savage Short Action Magazines having a max COAL of 2.990", the 284 Win would be very happy in a Savage Short Action shooting 140 to 160 grainers.

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Yea that is what I fig
i measured everything and if I go with a COAL of 2.93 it will seat the 140 exactly the same depth as my 7-08 and give me
7.5 more grains of 4350

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Originally Posted by Bigbuckdn

Yea that is what I fig
i measured everything and if I go with a COAL of 2.93 it will seat the 140 exactly the same depth as my 7-08 and give me
7.5 more grains of 4350

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If this rifle is for hunting only and you don't plan on using the heavy long 7mm bullets, there is no advantage in going with a long action. Especially when Savage Short Action magazine handles almost 3.00" coal.

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Originally Posted by Zero333

If this rifle is for hunting only and you don't plan on using the heavy long 7mm bullets, there is no advantage in going with a long action. Especially when Savage Short Action magazine handles almost 3.00" coal.

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yea mostly 140gr Sierra HPGK
maybe some 160 gr same bullet
pure hunting rig

On the long jump thought, note that Barnes' bullets usually require at least a .050" jump to the lands, and they have shown incredible accuracy. My most accurate Barnes load is in my Marlin 45-70 and it literally prints a 3 shot cloverleaf at 100yds, using the 300gr TSX.

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

....Here's a photo comparing the above 140gr Partition round at 2.990" OAL in S/A and L/A centerfeed magazines. As you can see it fits fine in the S/A and has a ton of room to spare in the L/A.

Attachment 3663

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That picture helps clear up a bunch of confusion!

What magazine is illustrated for the short action? Could one use for the .284 Winchester on a Model 16 (11, etc)?

I am just waiting on the barrel then I can start putting things together so far I have acquired everything but the stock and a few small parts

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Originally Posted by JASmith

That picture helps clear up a bunch of confusion!

What magazine is illustrated for the short action? Could one use for the .284 Winchester on a Model 16 (11, etc)?

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S/A mag is a STD Short (308, 7mm-08) centerfeed magazine.

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

S/A mag is a STD Short (308, 7mm-08) centerfeed magazine.

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Thanks!

Should we expect to tweak the magazine to get good feeding?

I can't recall having to make any adjustments to mine, but it's been a few years since I built that rifle so I'll say "maybe" just to be safe. lol

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

I can't recall having to make any adjustments to mine, but it's been a few years since I built that rifle so I'll say "maybe" just to be safe. lol

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Thanks! I'll remember to be "furious" if I have to make mods (lol).

To be serious, I truly appreciate the information. It means I can start without going to extreme measures, and have a good chance that it will work fine.

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Originally Posted by JASmith

Thanks! I'll remember to be "furious" if I have to make mods (lol).

To be serious, I truly appreciate the information. It means I can start without going to extreme measures, and have a good chance that it will work fine.

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Ja smith are you also building a 284 SA

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Originally Posted by Bigbuckdn

Ja smith are you also building a 284 SA

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The plan is for a 6.5-284 but am wanting to be sure the ducks are lined up.

For those of you who have a 284, do you have brass? Are you interested in a group buy from Boolitsdotcom for brass. Maybe getting 1000 pcs and split it. Jim, If this is bad mojo let me know.

I just neck up 6.5-284 brass. No muss, no fuss.

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Originally Posted by MrFurious

I just neck up 6.5-284 brass. No muss, no fuss.

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That is my plan

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Originally Posted by JASmith

The plan is for a 6.5-284 but am wanting to be sure the ducks are lined up.

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Yea I finally have the ducks lined up except for stock