Printable View
Not sure where to put this, hopefully this is an acceptable location.
At the range the other day I opened up a box of Rem Core Lokt and had 2 of the 10 fail to fire. I was wondering if there was an easy way to tell between an issue with the firearm or an issue with the ammunition. Strikes looked similar to the rest of the successfully fired cases. I tried to fire each of the FTF rounds 3 times without success. Went home and pulled the projectile, wasn't sure what else to do with it.
More about the rifle and the cartridge? Did you buy it used etc....
Has the bolt ever been disassembled?
Firing pin protrusion is correct?
Looking at the primers on the fired cases, did the primer back out?
What ammo were you using?
I was just speaking in general terms which could be applied to all centerfire firearms. New Axis chambered in 30-06 with fixed pin protrusion. Bolt was disassembled and cleaned before the rifle was fired. Ammo was Remington Core Lokt. First box of 150's shot 20/20. Opened up a box of 180's and 2/10 that I chambered didn't fire. The pin strikes looked similar to the other fired rounds, and were not visibly different than other fired rounds. I tried to fire each of the two rounds 3 times each which resulted in very deep strikes left on the primer, yet would not fire.
Bad primers. It happens
I appreciate the input, this is actually the first time I've ever experienced a FTF with a centerfire cartridge so I'm not very experienced in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiesindian
Pull the bullets, push out the primers and do the "hammer" test on the primers that FTF. Before you smack them, look to see if they are burned. (turned black)
It's been my experience that MOST FTFs are headspace issues. (not a physical issue with the chamber headspace) Brass too short for the chamber, you pull the trigger,round gets pushed forward by the firing pin. You get what looks like a good strike but just not hard enough. Short rounds will also let the primers back out then get pushed back in making it hard to tell exactly what happened. That's where the "hammer" test comes in. Sometimes it's the QC of the ammo. Most are a little on the short (SAAMI) side. I roll all my own ammo so when it happens to me, it'd MY fault. Short ammo or contaminated primers.:confused:
I agree with mike but have seen some gummy/dirty firing pin assemblies that would cause it. obviously since you cleaned it and reassembled it that is not the issue. In your first post you asked a good question about an easy way..... check the base to shoulder length on both the fired and failed to fire cases. If you have a big difference there or if the primer is sticking out the back of the case on the once that fired, that is an indication that the case is undersized or that the headspace is too long.
If you have a good primer strike I'd go with "bad primer".
We buy those little items in boxes of 1,000 for around $0.025 - $0.035 each. They're manufactured rapidly and it's not all that hard for a couple of bad ones to slip through here and there.
For an item that's mass produced in the quantities that primers are, it's amazing how few actually malfunction. And yes, factory ammo is subject to the same issues as hand loads. They too can be loaded with bad primers.
Something else you can try BEFORE pulling down the FTF round. Pull the bullets out a bit to increase the OAL. That way, the firing pin doesn't have as much chance to push the round forward in the chamber and it will keep the case head hard against the bolt face.
One step at a time before you say it's THIS!!
Only bad primer I've ever had out of maybe 10K fired was from oil contamination. Case lube didn't get cleaned out of the brass before it got loaded. Soaked the primer and all I got was a fizzle. A few FTF from short cases.
Just an update, finished off the remaining 10 rounds in that box without any problems. Opened up another box and again had 2/20 FTF with good primer strikes. I was in a rush to get on paper so I just chucked the rounds and kept shooting. I've heard others have had the same issues with Remington ammo so I'm going to try another brand before getting into serious troubleshooting. I appreciate all of the knowledge!
Least you narrowed it down....Try federal or Hornady...my personal favorite.
Weak firing pin spring is my opinion.
The harder the primer cup the heavier the spring needed to guarantee they always go BANG.
Most Savage models have weaker firing pin springs than say Remington 700's. The strongest firing pin spring on any of my Savages is on a model 10 FCP-K (I can tell by the force it takes to re-cock the bolt not inside the action). This 10 FCP-K never had a FTF, and I can't say that about any other of my Short Action Savages. Also never had a problem with my Long action.
Also noticed the FTF's in my rifles have only happened in the very cold Canadian winter, with CCI primers. never a problem with Federal 210m primers.
My brother has a left hand mod 11 and it had a few FTF's. So I shimmed the firing pin spring(s) (it's a 2 spring design, I think the Axis is the same). And the FTF's went away.
Until last Saturday he had 1 FTF.
It was about -15 f with the wind and I thought the shell holder I used to sit the primers on the hand priming tool did not give me a positive bottom out feel (used a different shell holder than usual). So the jury is still out on that one, and the primer was a cci-BR-2.
We had ftf issues this fall with my grandsons 308 which is as I recall an fcp model.
Anyway its a pretty heavy gun, came with a break and detachable mag, and was available in 338 Lapua also.
The gun now has several hundred rounds thru it all at targets or rocks on hillsides.
Bolts never been apart, and every round has been handloaded on the same press with the same fl dies.
All primers appear to be struck the same, but some don't go off.
Due to time restraints the gun got cleaned and put back in the safe for now.
My plan is to take a few fired cases and without resizing them, knock out the primers, seat new ones, and see if they fire in the gun.
That should eliminiate any potential resizing issue. The bolt will also be dissembled and cleaned, but I don't really feel that's the issue.
I have sent a pm to Fred and that was basicly his recommendation.
We store all our components properly and have never had any primer issues, but I guess anythings possible.
Cleaned the bolt, put another two boxes down the pipe. 1/40 didn't go off. That's 5 out of the first 100 that have FTF. Looks like a light strike to me.
https://imgur.com/gallery/53TZY
Probably take this over to the Axis sub forum.
You say you stripped the bolt down and cleaned it before initial use.
Question: Did you notice there is a "washer" or single coil of a spring placed between the two firing pin springs? It can easily be dropped, misplaced or go unnoticed and not replaced when reassembling the bolt. If that happens, you will have light strikes, occasionally, due to light spring tension/pressure.
The washer is definitely there, pulled the bolt back apart to clean after today's outing.
FWIW I noticed some slight rubbing with the stock on the bolt release tab. Since it's connected to the sear I'm sure it's sucking up valuable impact energy.
https://imgur.com/gallery/mCPH3
How much firing pin protrusion does your gun have? With tail end of a caliper and ruler I get .052. If that is far from correct I'll remeasure, 308 axis with zero ftf's.
That was what was wrong with my buddies axis .243.��Quote:
Originally Posted by Mb1500
That was what was wrong with my buddies axis .243.😉Quote:
Originally Posted by Mb1500
this one is right around .05"Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlshnngns
Good to hear. I'm going to relieve the stock some and report back the next time I hit the range.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSavage